Everlasting ... Is not really everlasting?

[@@Paul@@]

I've been pelted with amillennial views of the Abrahamic Covenant for days now >>> I can only swim underwater for so long without coming up for air...

It's been stated that "Olam" does not necessarily mean forever. As in, it could also mean "a fixed period of time"

Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.​

Even though it plainly used in the same way here...

Gen 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God.​

If "Olam" doesn't always mean forever; how do we know how to explain it?

 

[torahlife]

It's impossible to make people hear what you are saying when their ears are blocked. You try to explain that His Word is everlasting, just as your scripture references point out, yet they refuse to acknowledge what does not apply to them. You are referring to the amelennial sp? doctrine. It usually follows with replacement theology.

My reponse is that if G-d broke his covenant promises to Israel then what good is His word; and He's a liar. He can then just as easily break His promise to the "church".

In the end, people only hear what they want to hear

Blessings,
torahlife

 

[visionary]

How can an Eternity God talk of everlasting like it is just an "age to come" dispensation?

 

[@@Paul@@]

It's impossible to make people hear what you are saying when their ears are blocked. You try to explain that His Word is everlasting, just as your scripture references point out, yet they refuse to acknowledge what does not apply to them. You are referring to the amelennial sp? doctrine. It usually follows with replacement theology.

My reponse is that if G-d broke his covenant promises to Israel then what good is His word; and He's a liar. He can then just as easily break His promise to the "church".

In the end, people only hear what they want to hear

Blessings,
torahlife

Exactly (amillennialism) , It's actually a little sad when you think about it...

How can an Eternity God talk of everlasting like it is just an "age to come" dispensation?

I have no idea, to think G-d would call Abraham to build a posterity throughout one "stewardship" then cast everything He had given or taught them away to be "replaced" with (well i'll leave the unpleasentries, but you get the idea)...

I could go on for eternity (well that just ended).

 

[Sephania]

Contingent upon something else, as I discussed in your other thread.

Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

Now when the old earth and old heaven pass away will we still need to have that covenant? Well there still be a rainbow? I don't believe so I belive the new earth will not as the promise was for destroying with a flood the people and the earth, this will have passed away so it becomes null and void. But HAShem does not pass away, he is not contingint on anything else.

Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Abraham will only have seed for so long. Once this world has passed away and the new world has come .................see? contingent.

Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

As long as there is flesh, then those of Abraham must be circumcised to be brought into this covenant. But when we recieve our immortal bodies this will no longer apply.

That word can mean infinite, perpetual or long lasting, or long duration. It all depends on who you are speaking of man or HaShem, not Abraham or the "new covenant people".

 

[DanielRB]

I've been pelted with amillennial views of the Abrahamic Covenant for days now >>> I can only swim underwater for so long without coming up for air...

It's been stated that "Olam" does not necessarily mean forever. As in, it could also mean "a fixed period of time"

Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.​

Even though it plainly used in the same way here...

Gen 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God.​

If "Olam" doesn't always mean forever; how do we know how to explain it?

Hi Paul,

I hope this is not appropriate for me to answer this...

I think an excellent analysis of olam can be found at http://www.christian-thinktank.com/finaltorah.html The author goes into a lot more detail than you may want in this question, but I think it's worth the read.

I agree with Zayit--certain uses of olam are contingent. There is not a one-for-one correspondence between Hebrew and English with "olam" and "eternity." Context should determine meaning.

In Messiah,

Daniel

 

[debi b]

And then you have to deal with Olam can be plural........

 

[@@Paul@@]

Thanks everyone,

Would it be safe to assume that at some point we'll be outside of time >> in which case an explaination of "everlasting" would be unnecessary?

i.e. Could everlasting, as G-d explains it to us, mean the period of time - while we're bound by time...

Paul

 

[DanielRB]

Thanks everyone,

Would it be safe to assume that at some point we'll be outside of time >> in which case an explaination of "everlasting" would be unnecessary?

i.e. Could everlasting, as G-d explains it to us, mean the period of time - while we're bound by time...

Paul

Hi Paul,

I know that it's a common idea that we will some point be "outside of time", but I have yet to see solid Biblical evidence that this will be the case. Do you have some Biblical evidence in mind?

In Messiah,

Daniel

 

[@@Paul@@]

Hi Paul,

I know that it's a common idea that we will some point be "outside of time", but I have yet to see solid Biblical evidence that this will be the case. Do you have some Biblical evidence in mind?

In Messiah,

Daniel

No necessarily... I believe that G-d counts time differently than we count time (which i can prove ), but that does not prove that G-d is outside of time - It just hints at it a little.

(I never really gave it much thought.. Just assumed )

 

[DanielRB]

No necessarily... I believe that G-d counts time differently than we count time (which i can prove ), but that does not prove that G-d is outside of time - It just hints at it a little.

(I never really gave it much thought.. Just assumed )

Hi Paul,

Even if G-d is outside of time, it does not necessarily follow that we will one day be outside of time. Just something to think about.

In Messiah,

Daniel