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You may erase nothing in scripture ever..it is forever settled. Little man may repent and surrender unconditionally. Little man may not reconstruct the word of God, sealed by Jesus as true.Why do we have to erase eve because certain details about her creation and story are allegorical? We didn't erase the "earth" because we finally admitted that it wasn't flat, did we?
You may erase nothing in scripture ever..it is forever settled. You may repent and surrender unconditionally.
Yup, no erasing is happening. What is happening is that now or later, some atheist/muslim/nonchristian is going to start copy pasting your posts as source material as to why "christianity is ridiculous" so that he can present them to the christian he is arguing with, and that christian is probably going to be trying his best to make excuses to the Atheist about how you don't represent "true christianity".
Then his lost people might actually start to think! What's your excuse besides a desire to please man above a sound reading of God's word? I must say I respect people who believe in what they preach and stand for. When I see people disrespecting the sacred text to try and get in bed with so called science/man's wisdom/foolishness it turns the stomach. Lukewarm...no. Hot or cold...yes please.
Then his lost people might actually start to think! What's your excuse besides a desire to please man above a sound reading of God's word? I must say I respect people who believe in what they preach and stand for. When I see people disrespecting the sacred text to try and get in bed with so called science/man's wisdom/foolishness it turns the stomach. Lukewarm...no. Hot or cold...yes please.
PS I dare any Muslims or others to challenge the bible. Double dare.
PPS If the christian is apologizing to pagans over some folks actually believing the bible, it is because they probably do not actually believe much if at all.
It could have been viewed as an allegory, but good thing we have historical records of Jesus' existence and also the Martyrdom of the Apostles, whose main drive of dying was because of believing he resurrected so strongly.Maybe Jesus' resurrection was just an allegory as well? .
Remember that other thread in where i gave you a sports headline. You've already been given examples that metaphors =/= fiction. Yet you (oddly) reject or ignore these examples.It's all or nothing. Either God gave us the truth or the Bible is just a book of fairytales and moral teachings. I will put my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, THE WORD made flesh, every time. I don't care how stupid it makes me look to the world.
Did the pre-humans sin?
Theo-Evos whom I have talked with say no. If that be so somewhere in the so-called human evolution the population people began to sin. When was that?
What was that sin?
Why should mankind be responsible for that sin?
How did man get a spirit?
It is my belief that the Theo-Evo sect won't answer these question because they can't answer them and conform to what the bible says.
Very correct, and this is the proper Christian approach. otherwise, you could toss out so much of the bible and insert what you like, some could claim pedophilia and homosexuality and child sacrifice are acceptable! (look at some churches and we see they are riddled with such people). Next they could make the bible secondary to some leader's whims..etc etc etc.Exactly. The non-believer sees professing Christians that don't even believe their own scriptures. Why does the non-believer even need to be saved by Jesus if all the fall of man and all that nasty sin business is just allegorical storytelling like the rest of Genesis? Maybe Jesus' resurrection was just an allegory as well? Maybe being a Christian is just about being a good person and going to church, but not getting too serious about anything in that old book, and not taking anything too literally... scary to think about how many souls are being led astray by this lukewarm thinking.
It's all or nothing. Either God gave us the truth or the Bible is just a book of fairytales and moral teachings. I will put my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, THE WORD made flesh, every time. I don't care how stupid it makes me look to the world.
In fact, that scenario is to be expected. We were clearly warned in 2 Peter that people would come in the last days denying creation and the flood. Who would have thought that professing Christians would be so gleefully jumping on that bandwagon to avoid losing the respect of other men?
I present nothing, I read what God presented. Name ONE apostle of prophets that taught the earth was millions of years old or that creation really means evolving from worms or monkeys or whatever??! We wait.God's word isn't fallible, and what you've presented was not only demolished by academics but also theologians and apologetics site, not to mention being shown to be completely empty of reasoning. You are just rejecting what you don't want to accept on your own and tagging the Bible on it.
Ah so now you declare sin to be some mental attribute!!! How about a three year old or a retarded person, do you deem them mentally worthy? I do not recall any verse that says we grow an ability to know right from wrong!! Ridiculous.Is H. erectus a "pre-human?" Other animals are innocent. Until we had the ability to know right from wrong, we were unable to sin.
How would anyone know what God said or meant if they tossed out whole sections wily niley like you do creation?Disobedience against God.
That man was the man God took Eve from that you reject. What first monkey man do you have in mind exactly?!Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned .
So Moses was real but Eve no?. . Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses
Sounds like a real person to me, not someone that may have lived, but was not actually directly created by God., even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
The last Adam was real, but not the first?But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Ah so now you declare sin to be some mental attribute!!!
How about a three year old or a retarded person, do you deem them mentally worthy?
I do not recall any verse that says we grow an ability to know right from wrong!!
Ridiculous.
That man was the man God took Eve from that you reject. What first monkey man do you have in mind exactly?!
So Moses was real but Eve no?
It could have been viewed as an allegory, but good thing we have historical records of Jesus' existence and also the Martyrdom of the Apostles, whose main drive of dying was because of believing he resurrected so strongly.
Remember that other thread in where i gave you a sports headline. You've already been given examples that metaphors =/= fiction. Yet you (oddly) reject or ignore these examples.
(I'm finding it odd, in a suspicious way, that more than 1 person is misunderstands what figures of speech are and is misrepresenting them the same way by putting it in the context of it being a classification of fiction.)
Anyway, you don't even accept the "Eucharist" to be the literal body/blood other denominations say is told in scripture, and yet here you are saying we must believe in everything literally or classify at as fiction? (Will you ignore this too so you can keep self-repping and "holy-tagging" your arguments regardless of apologist sites being posted?)
How do you figure that rebellion against God is a mental attribute?
Of what? Do you not understand that one must be aware of right and wrong to sin?
He also says woman came from the man and etc etc. How are we supposed to know what bits you want to cherry pick as true? So why did Adam become as the spiritual beings, knowing good and evil? The bible says it was a deliberate act one day of disobedience, not any ridiculous evolution.Genesis 3:22 And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil:
That's what God says.
So rather than admit you rejected Genesis outright, you make dark false accusations about actual bible believers who try to believe what God said. That is a red flag.We'll just have to disagree. You think God's word is ridiculous. How would anyone know what God said or meant if they tossed out whole sections wil'y nilly like you do creation?
When real is gauged by what God says in Genesis, guess who doesn't believe in a real Eve?You don't think Eve was a real person? Why am I not surprised?
I was looking at what you said
So you suggest man cam from 'other animals' here.
Not sure what you think the ability to know right from wrong came from, if not due to your suggested evolution into higher intelligence?
I think we know you ruled out the story of Adam and Eve as real.
So what was it, did God sneak in after they evolved and bestow on them some magical power to know right from wrong, or..?
When real is gauged by what God says in Genesis, guess who doesn't believe in a real Eve?
Secular historical records are great resources because they are proven truth for the Bible and obviously shuts down any unintelligent arguments about "xyz" being a metaphor. That is the great thing about evidence.So secular historical records are sacrosanct, but biblical accounts of history can go straight in the trash heap?
Yup, and the example I gave, which is taken from a sports article contains the same factual things but there was a lot of expressive/artistic details in that article such as "spitting fire" etc. Do you understand this stuff or are you just ignoring it?Do you ever stop to wonder why this supposed flood allegory isn't written anything like an allegory? Why are we given specific genealogies, ages, months, days, durations, desriptions of geologic processes and specific geographic locations? How do all these details contribute to the moral of the story?
We don't have much evidence of it being a factual/historical event as accurately described in the Bible. Some Jewish people to this day argue that Noah was more than 1 person who represents all the people who survived the flood. If you think that is wrong and we must take the Bible literally, then tell me how did Chinese, Russian, Caucasians, Mexicans come to existence if only 1 man (assuming he is Jewish) and his family survived that?In actuality the Genesis flood narrative (like most of Genesis in its entirity) is written more like a factual news article than the allegorical interpretation you want to force onto it.
Because it isn't "black and white". There are apologists and theologians for a reason. Literature utilizes artistic expression to help create an emphasis so that the readers understand what is going on, and since the Bible was written from BC-AD, the writers would use artistic expressions based on what their culture understood during that time in addition to applying their current understanding of the physical world.Why go out of your way to convince yourself that black is white? What's so hard about just believing God did what he said he did?
Well the fact that your arguments have been that I must take it literally or i'm not some "true christian" is indirectly saying that you believe it has to be literal. So how do you know then these distinctions, especially when you start cross referencing to historical documents, scientific possibilities, original translations, and even the Talmud?Where did I say we must believe everything literally? The Bible is full of allegories, parables, metaphors, symbolism, etc. And the dinstictions are usually quite clear, sometimes even explicitly described as such.
If it was an accurate historical account as told and as you believe, then there should be evidence. I'm not sure about the flood, because i have not looked into how legit the whole "discovery of Noah's ark" is but there is no denying that many details in Genesis aren't to be taken literally.What I have a problem with is professing Christians taking a painfully obvious historical account like those found in Genesis (i.e. this happened, then this happened, then this happened, on these specific days, at these specific times, etc.) and then using mental gymnastics to twist it into something they want it to be... just so they can be considered "reasonable" to non-believers.
I present nothing, I read what God presented. Name ONE apostle of prophets that taught the earth was millions of years old or that creation really means evolving from worms or monkeys or whatever??! We wait.
The bible seems to suggest otherwise, He is a jealous God and will have no demon science or gods before Him. He does not allow bending the knee to multiple gods. If God be God then worship Him. If demon science be god then worship and believe it.
He called the cup fruit of the vine not blood.
Your point is moot. Why are you grasping at straws to find some excuse to wave away Genesis/creation/Eve?
Free to believe or disbelieve. There IS no order in chapter two...show me one morning and evening were the...day!!!!? It was over. Finished already. Done. Complete. Past. Finito.
Interesting thought, Jesus fulfilled the law. He was circumcised, etc etc etc. So if He drank blood that would be breaking the law!
Le 7:27 - Whatsoever soul it be that eateth any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.
Until "we" had the ability? By we I assume you mean the evolved humans that first existed in your belief system?I said sin is a rebellion against God. Sorry you disagree.
" Other animals are innocent. Until we had the ability to know right from wrong, we were unable to sin."
So the evidence indicates.
You might want to get a Bible and read it. That will clear things up for you. As a very good Christian once remarked, the mind is not a mere epiphenomenon of the brain.
That's not the only thing you got wrong. Adam and Eve were real people. The problem is, you want to convert the creation story into a literal history, even thought the text itself tells you that it isn't a literal history.
I guess it's a YEC thing to regard God as "sneaky." And now, you're denying what God says about the way man's soul was created, or you dismiss it as "sneaky" and "magic."
[quote[How would anyone know what you are thinking since we cannot use the bible as a guide with you??
If you would simply let the Bible guide you, instead of trying to correct the Bible, it might work better for you. But rather than admit you rejected Genesis outright, you make dark false accusations about actual bible believers who try to believe what God said. That is a red flag.
Someone here once claimed Jesus wasn't God. So I wouldn't be surprised if that person didn't think Eve was a real person, either. Too bad for him. Here's a tip:
Be honest.
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