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Why will I need luck during Judgment? Please explain.Sounds like you know what you are talking about. Good luck to you during Judgment. You'll need it.
God bless you.
Why will I need luck during Judgment? Please explain.
But on second thought, I don't know why I even ask. My question about your comment: "Eternal Security can only be if it is within your control" was not explained or answered.
I guess I shouldn't expect an explanation for your current comment.
Wisdom is knowing who is talking to whom, and why.This is the gospel.
No, the FG2 only "knows" the OSAS verses."After this Jesus found him in the temple area and said to him, "Look, you are well; do not sin any more, so that nothing worse may happen to you.""
"What have you (the FG2) to say about this?"
God will ask you since you seem to know Scripture.
Let's just say that I know I'm saved based on the Word of God.Let's say during Judgment you come before God believing you are saved.
This sounds very much like the verses I have pointed out aren't Biblical Truths. Why would anyone make such a silly claim?And the basis of your belief is on the verses of Scripture you pointed out to me as Biblical Truths.
No, He would let me in His kingdom, based on His own Word. Commendation is reserved for those who remained faithful. Entrance is based on the verses I've pointed out.Then God would then commend you on believing in those verses of Scripture since All Scripture is inspired by God and is Profitable.
Since you're apparently not familiar with how the judgment is handled, no one gets a chance to defend themselves. Books are opened and the book of life is opened. Those who's names are in the book of life will enter the kingdom, and those who's names aren't in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire.God would then turn your attention to what you said about, "All Scripture is inspired by God and is Profitable."
God would then say to you, "I find this verse of Scripture Very Important:
14 After this Jesus found him in the temple area and said to him, "Look, you are well; do not sin any more, so that nothing worse may happen to you.""
"What have you to say about this?" God will ask you since you seem to know Scripture.
God bless you.
There aren't any verses that state that one's salvation can be lost.Now, would you care to see many dozens of verses
which warn believers that they can lose their salvation?
It's really too bad that the zachary doesn't know them.No, the FG2 only "knows" the OSAS verses.
Because there aren't any. The warning verses speak of loss of reward and blessings.He refuses to accept the dozens of verses ...
which warn believers that they can lose their salvation.
Your opinion is noted and flatly rejected.This to his own eternal destruction ... because he is a false teacher.
What caught my eye first was the John 10:28 in your 3rd category.
In the past, you have had the meaning of this explained to you,
but you have refused to accept it.
John 10:
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
For example ...
Not everyone who thinks they are known by Jesus ... are known by Jesus!
Matthew 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me,
you who practice lawlessness!’
There is quite a nice long list in the NT about what is involved in doing God's will.
W. E. Vine says this "knew" means "approved of".
Jesus actually "knows" (has a relationship with) those He approves of,
which is NOT every born-again believer.
OK then. Is your view that the Scriptures contradict themselves?
Second, what are the verses in the OP profitable for?
No. He never forces His gift of eternal life on anyone. But your question is irrelevant to the issue of loss of salvation.
The first, second, third, and fifth points in the OP show that once a person believes:
1. they HAVE eternal life John 5:24
2. eternal life is an irrevocable gift of God Rom 6:23, Rom 11:29
3. those given eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH John 10:28
These are irrefutable facts. So even those who might later cease to believe in God are still saved for the very reasons above.
And those who just become rebellious are saved as well, because of the fourth point.
If these verses don't teach eternal security, then what do they teach? Or, in what category, per 2 Tim 3:16 are they profitable for: reproof, correction, or instruction in righteousness?
Please explain your answer if you do answer.
Thanks.
I can quickly add ...
John 17:
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God,
and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
The NT teaches that this "knowing" refers to a personal relationship of some depth.
For example:
Romans 8:
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
This being led is a continual action, not a one-time deal.
Those being led have a personal relationship with God.
Yes, it's all about a close relationship of some depth.
This will result in a correct "heart attitude" about sin and repentance!
Once again those who have been born of God do know Christ. Those who have been born of God are led by the Spirit. Nothing you said here disproves OSAS
My question would be....
When is one born of God?.
When one believes. They become a "new creation" per 2 Cor 5:17.My question would be....
When is one born of God?
Paul explained why that happens. It's all about one's choice: which nature to obey; the human (sin) nature, or the new born again nature. Romans 6It seem to me all through the different threads on these forums, people claiming to be sinners and
also claiming to be born again.
What is probably misunderstood mostly is 1 Jn 3:9 - No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of GodScriptural testimony through John states.....
He who commits sin is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.
The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
No one born of God commits sin, for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because
he is born of God.
By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil,
whoever does not do right is not of God,
nor he who does not love his brother.
Are we misunderstanding what it is to be born of GOD.
Sure. Moral unbelievers can be even more humanly moral than many believers, but they are not born again.Or is it possible that we can come to a place of believing and living "christian" lives, while not
having come to a place of being of BORN OF GOD?
One certainly CAN and DOES sin from the human (sin) nature. That was Paul's struggle in Romans 7.If I were to use that scripture about ...he who is born of GOD cannot sin...
and apply this to our daily lives, can we honestly say.....
I cannot sin, because I am born of God......
Review my explanation of 1 Jn 3:9.Are we really born again as long as we continue in committing sins, and it does not say, those born
of God, try not to sin, it states they cannot sin....?
When we receive it through faith in Christ. John 5:24 says those who believe HAVE eternal life, and WILL NOT COME into condemnation.But now that YOU HAVE BEEN SET FREE FROM SIN and HAVE BECOME SLAVES OF GOD,
the return you get is sanctification , and it's end, ETERNAL LIFE.
For the wages of sin is death,
but the free gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE in CHRIST JESUS our LORD.
So when do we have eternal security?
When one believes. They become a "new creation" per 2 Cor 5:17.
Paul explained why that happens. It's all about one's choice: which nature to obey; the human (sin) nature, or the new born again nature. Romans 6
What is probably misunderstood mostly is 1 Jn 3:9 - No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God
If one understands the phrase "born of God" refers to the new nature, then one will understand that we cannot sin from our new born again nature. Why is that impossible? John tells us in the phrase "God's seed remains in him". This is the Holy Spirit. It is impossible to sin from the very nature where the Holy Spirit indwells.
Sure. Moral unbelievers can be even more humanly moral than many believers, but they are not born again.
One certainly CAN and DOES sin from the human (sin) nature. That was Paul's struggle in Romans 7.
Review my explanation of 1 Jn 3:9.
When we receive it through faith in Christ. John 5:24 says those who believe HAVE eternal life, and WILL NOT COME into condemnation.
No.Just for clarification. ..
Are you of the understanding that when we become a new creation, that the old
man, the sin nature has not been crucified and buried with Christ yet?
Yes. But this doesn't mean that the old nature, the sin nature, is gone and no longer an issue. Paul made that quite clear in Romans 7.I believe it was Paul that said in one of his letters....
Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation,
the OLD HAS PASSED AWAY. Behold the new has come.
Then, just for clarification, are you of the understanding that the believer no longer has the sin nature, and therefore is no longer capable of sinning?Jesus spoke to the effect,...
He who loses his life, will gain it.
Don't recollect Jesus or any of the apostles speaking about having both the Old and the New
present at the same time.
If your view is that the believer does not have a sin nature any more, then, yes, WOWSERS!!If this is what you espouse, then I can see where all these winds of doctrines are coming from.
All I can say is.....wow.
ANd please return the favor.I just hope I am misreading you on this post. So if you could clarify this for me that would be great.
And thanks to you.Thank you
No.
Yes. But this doesn't mean that the old nature, the sin nature, is gone and no longer an issue. Paul made that quite clear in Romans 7.
Then, just for clarification, are you of the understanding that the believer no longer has the sin nature, and therefore is no longer capable of sinning?
If your view is that the believer does not have a sin nature any more, then, yes, WOWSERS!!
ANd please return the favor.
And thanks to you.
No, it would not be fair to say that. Because Paul was clear in Romans 7 about his PRESENT struggle with his own sin nature. I recommend that Romans 7 be read, after confessing all known sins, and then asking God for the filling of the Holy Spirit, so that the conditions for understanding God's Word will be maximized.Let me ask you this,...
If the Old man, sinful nature, has been CRUCIFIED, DEAD AND BURIED WITH CHRIST, would be fair to
say that when something is dead and buried, it is passed away, gone, done with.
I think your logic is flawed, and that the meaning of God's Word isn't being correctly understood.If the Old man was crucified with Christ and dead, and if this were not so,
then by that logic I would have to assume that Christ wasn't really crucified and dead.
Wrong. He was speaking about himself in the PRESENT TENSE. But anyone is free to ignore the obvious when they don't like what they read.Yes Romans 7 , Paul addresses the same dilemma that most "Christians" are experiencing, living
under the law, in the flesh, before one comes to life in the Spirit.
Are you paying attention to the subjunctive mood here: "that we MIGHT no longer be enslaved"??We know that our old self WAS crucified with Him so that the sinful body might be destroyed,
that we might no longer be enslaved to sin.
This means that we are freed from the penalty of sin. Not sin itself.For he who has died is FREED FROM SIN.
Agan, we are set free from the PENALTY of sin. Not sin itself.But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart
to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and,
HAVING BEEN SET FREE FROM SIN, have become slaves of righteousness.
Again, freed from the PENALTY of sin.And how have we been set free from sin?
The old sinful man was crucified and died with Christ on the tree.
For he who has died is freed from sin.
When one believes in Christ. 1 Tim 1:16 - But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.Where does Eternal Life come in.
Do you believe that you no longer sin?When the old man is dead, you are freed from sin, the new has come,
New birth, born of God.
Again, do you believe that you no longer sin?He that is born of God cannot sin.
Yes.Have you been set free from sin ?
Only when I'm filled with the Holy Spirit. How often are you filled with the Spirit?Are you a slave of God?
I have no idea what you're asking.Have you been sanctified and come to the end of it?
It's far MORE than just possible. I HAVE eternal life.Then it is possible that you might have the gift of Eternal Life.
Please define your working definition of 'believe'.This is what real believing is all about.
It seems to me you're twisting Scriptures to fit your opinions.Not just some mental assent to some scriptures, believing that in them we have Eternal Life.
You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is they
that bear witness to Me, yet you refuse to come to Me that you may have Life.
No, it would not be fair to say that. Because Paul was clear in Romans 7 about his PRESENT struggle with his own sin nature. I recommend that Romans 7 be read, after confessing all known sins, and then asking God for the filling of the Holy Spirit, so that the conditions for understanding God's Word will be maximized.
I think your logic is flawed, and that the meaning of God's Word isn't being correctly understood.
Wrong. He was speaking about himself in the PRESENT TENSE. But anyone is free to ignore the obvious when they don't like what they read.
Are you paying attention to the subjunctive mood here: "that we MIGHT no longer be enslaved"??
This means that we are freed from the penalty of sin. Not sin itself.
Agan, we are set free from the PENALTY of sin. Not sin itself.
Again, freed from the PENALTY of sin.
When one believes in Christ. 1 Tim 1:16 - But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.
Do you believe that you no longer sin?
Again, do you believe that you no longer sin?
Yes.
Only when I'm filled with the Holy Spirit. How often are you filled with the Spirit?
I have no idea what you're asking.
It's far MORE than just possible. I HAVE eternal life.
Please define your working definition of 'believe'.
It seems to me you're twisting Scriptures to fit your opinions.
When Jesus said that to unbelieving Jews, His whole point was that they rejected (didn't believe) that He was the Messiah, in spite of all the evidence that he was.
What He accomplished was paying the PENALTY for our sins.For the record, you state........
We are freed from the penalty of sin. Not sin itself.
Let it be known to you, that are not speaking the Truth concerning Christ and what HE accomplished
What this means is that anyone who believes in Him will NEVER PERISH, because they have eternal life.by His Death, Burial, Resurrection and Ascension.
Christ Jesus conquered death itself as it is written......
I asked several questions. Was there any plan to answer them, or just dodge them?Death is swallowed up in Victory,
O death where is thy victory?
O death where is thy sting?
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, who gives us the Victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
What He accomplished was paying the PENALTY for our sins.
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