Eternal Justice

[Rob Callow]

Greetings all, I have a problem and some questions for you.


Genesis 2:16-17, God's first and only warning to perfect man was, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.". In this warning to Adam there is not even the slightest hint of a warning of everlasting torment. The only warning perfect man received from God before his ability to think rationally became corrupted, was the warning of death.

What I still see and hear being reasoned and preached by many in the Reformed Church however is that because Adam remained alive for many years after the day he ate the forbidden fruit, the word “die” in Genesis 2:17 cannot mean die as in the literal meaning of the word. Instead, what Reformed theology claims is that the word die in that context, actually means: man's soul, which includes his awareness, his senses and his ability to reason became separated from God but carried on living forever; and that unless man is converted and reunited with God before his physical body dies then he will remain separated from God and will ultimately be made to live forever in endless torment in a never ending fire.

But I see no good reason to change the meaning of the word “die” when there was a very real and obvious instant death on the day the perfect Spirit of truth ruling in Adam listened to Satan and ignored God. This Spirit in Adam was corrupted into a spirit of lies and rebellion against God. The pure and perfect Spirit that was the innermost ruling character in Adam was now dead in Adam, and it is this death that was completely ignored when forming the doctrine that speaks of an immortal soul being given to every man. When God said, “for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die”, that is exactly what happened: The perfect innocent and holy person that was Adam was no longer living, and the word “die” in Genesis 2:17 therefore, can easily be seen to mean exactly what the original Hebrew word “Muwth” says it means: to die, to wither, to decay, to be dead; to kill, to slay, to bring to death. This spiritual death was followed many years later by Adams physical death.



So I will say again, I see no good reason to believe the meaning of the words “the day that you eat of it you shall surely die” should in any way be altered to mean “the day that you eat of it your soul, your senses, your awareness and your ability to reason and perceive, will be separated from God but will carry on living forever”. What is more, in Genesis 3:19, 22 and 24, we see that after Adam gave in to Satan's temptation and died spiritually through valuing his desire to know evil above his Father's warning, we are told of God's reactions and what He said: “By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return” Gen 3:19. Adam then is being told here that he is now going to return back into the state of dust before he was made and there is nothing here to suggest that that state was going to be anything other than the state before he was made into a living being! In fact, God then went on to say, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever” Gen 3:22. After God drove the man out from the Garden of Eden He then placed “cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life” Gen 3:24; in order to keep fallen man from eating and living forever. What I see written here then is that the Father of perfect love and compassion, mercy and predestination has made it perfectly clear that He was never going to see these newly loved, but lost and naïve self-deceiving children wander blindly into an everlasting life of conflict and torment in a lake of fire.

If man had been made with an immortal soul and his conscious mind of reason with all it's powers to sense and perceive was made to live forever, then it would make no sense for God to place cherubim and a flaming sword preventing man from eating and living forever.

Ezekiel 18:4 tells us, “Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die”. The word “die” here is from the same Hebrew word “Muwth” found in Genesis 2:17 and still means exactly the same: to die, to wither, to decay, to be dead; to kill, to slay, to bring to death.
The original Hebrew word for “soul” here is “nephesh”, which is also the same word used in Genesis 2:7 (“and man became a living soul” KJV) and can be seen clearly spoken of in Scripture as being mortal.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 “For the living know that they will die;
But the dead know nothing”... and they shall remain that way until they are made to live again, as and when God so wills, for as long as God so wills.


The Bible also explains that God alone is immortal, 1 Timothy 6:15-16, and that only through a true knowledge of Him shall immortality be gained, Romans 2:7. But God also has clearly warned of a greater condemnation, even everlasting torment coming upon the vilest of souls who, like Satan, know Him well and hate Him. Such as these, instead of wanting to live in harmony with Him and with all of His creation they prefer to hate Him with a passion, constantly seeking pleasure and ecstasy in feeding and satisfying their most depraved desires and needs which they know are the most offensive and most grieving to Him. Revelation 14:6 and verses 9-11, together with Rev 20:10 and Matthew 23:14, also help explain this.




My questions for you now then are these:

Why do you believe I am wrong in my understanding of God's Word when He tells me the least knowledgeable and the least offensive of the condemned will not live forever or be made to constantly writhe in agony for the rest of eternity?

Why do you believe it is wrong to say there never was a good reason to cause such poor wretched souls as these to be tormented for ever and ever in the lake of fire?


God spoke the truth when He told Adam, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." and it was Satan who lied when he eventually convinced Adam and Eve that by knowing good and evil they would not die.

 

[AMR]

The doctrine of eternal punishment is not exclusive to Reformed theology, a theology that my denomination embraces. Annihilation, the alternative to your argument, is contary to orthodox Christianity.
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Persons in hell perpetuate their punishment (infinitely) because they continually sin. It is interesting to note that one action that is ascribed to occupants of hell is that of "gnashing of teeth." Check every other instance of when that expression is used... it is always in a context in which those doing it are furious. This action indicates that in hell they are fuming about it. They hate God for it. Thus they perpetuate their own torment eternally. And God is eternally glorified in his justice by his eternal punishment of those people. In a real sense, the gates of Hell are locked from the inside.

[/FONT] The foundational problem with annihilationism is that it is grounded in a misunderstanding of God's justice. The reprobate's punishment must be eternal, perpetual, and always in full intensity. Why? Because, according to God's decree, only Christ's incarnation as a man, perfect obedience to the Law, and sacrificial death could satisfy the wrath of God against sin. And, since Christ did not die for the reprobate, then God's wrath against sin can never be satisfied. Hence, their punishment must be to full intensity perpetually. Pointing to single Scriptures, which isolated from the doctrine found in the rest of scripture would cause us to misinterpret said Scripture, will never result in a full-orbed grasp of what Scripture teaches on the destinies of the elect and the reprobate.

 

[Rob Callow]

The doctrine of eternal punishment is not exclusive to Reformed theology, a theology that my denomination embraces.

I don't believe the doctrine of eternal punishment is exclusive to Reformed theology either.

Like yourself, I also believe in the doctrine of everlasting punishment:

The words “everlasting punishment” can easily be seen to mean an everlasting punishment of everlasting torment, but they can also just as easily be seen describing an everlasting punishment of everlasting death. The reason I say this is because the meaning of the word “punishment” does not only mean torment: The sentence of death in many cases is a punishment. It can be easily reasoned therefore that the sentence of everlasting death for the least knowledgeable and least evil of the condemned would indeed be an everlasting punishment. Why should I believe anything different?

Annihilation, the alternative to your argument, is contary to orthodox Christianity.

The state church of the Roman empire was often regarded as orthodox Christianity but that doesn't mean to say all of it's doctrine was correct, does it?

Persons in hell perpetuate their punishment (infinitely) because they continually sin. It is interesting to note that one action that is ascribed to occupants of hell is that of "gnashing of teeth." Check every other instance of when that expression is used... it is always in a context in which those doing it are furious. This action indicates that in hell they are fuming about it. They hate God for it. Thus they perpetuate their own torment eternally.

The words “wailing and gnashing of teeth” represents terrible suffering and I am sure that suffering will last forever for those most knowledgeable and most evil of the condemned.

And God is eternally glorified in his justice by his eternal punishment of those people. In a real sense, the gates of Hell are locked from the inside.

To cause or allow any more suffering beyond what is necessary for the eternal well being of the Spirit of truth would be alien to the Spirit of truth and to all that is good.

The foundational problem with annihilationism is that it is grounded in a misunderstanding of God's justice. The reprobate's punishment must be eternal, perpetual, and always in full intensity. Why? Because, according to God's decree, only Christ's incarnation as a man, perfect obedience to the Law, and sacrificial death could satisfy the wrath of God against sin. And, since Christ did not die for the reprobate, then God's wrath against sin can never be satisfied. Hence, their punishment must be to full intensity perpetually. Pointing to single Scriptures, which isolated from the doctrine found in the rest of scripture would cause us to misinterpret said Scripture, will never result in a full-orbed grasp of what Scripture teaches on the destinies of the elect and the reprobate.

To cause or allow any suffering beyond what is necessary for the eternal well being of the Spirit of truth would be offensive to the God of love.

So far you have not shown me one good reason why I should trust in your reasoning and in your interpretation of God's Word.

Whist you are thinking of a reply I would like to explain again what I see:

God explains that immortality is dependent upon the knowledge and understanding of the Spirit of truth revealed through the life and work of the Lord Jesus. How a man reacts to that knowledge and understanding will determine how he spends the rest of eternity.

 

[AMR]

I need not "think of a reply", for it has been given. Your sentimental views of "God of love" lie at the root of your erroneous views of eternal punishment. You can wave off my response with "it can easily be..." or "no, it means this or that", but that is not a defense. When you get around to actual exegesis of your position perhaps I or some others will be happy to steer you in the right direction. The burden is yours to bear as you are outside the bounds of Christendom on this matter.

[FONT=&quot]Hell by Dr. Francis Turretin[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Seventh question: Hell and Eternal Death

Is there a hell? And what are its punishments—whether only of loss or also of sense. We affirm the latter.

I. The execution of the sentence of the Judge will follow its promulgation. This will be carried out with respect to the wicked by casting them down into hell, where they must be tormented for ever with the devils; but with respect to the pious, by their introduction into heaven, to the joys of eternal life. Concerning this twofold end of men, of eternal life as well as of eternal death, something must also be said. And in the first place of hell or eternal death:

II. Hell is called in Hebrew sh’vl, in Greek Hades, of the multiple signification of which word we have spoken in Volume II, Topic XIII, Question XVI, Section 3. Here we take it for the place of the damned, as it is taken in Lk. 16:23. Various synonyms of it occur in the Scriptures: ‘bhdhvn (Prov. 15:11) or perdition (cf. also Prov. 27:20); Gehenna (Mt. 5:22, 29), a word derived from the valley of the children of Hinnom, in which the wicked Israelites were accustomed to practice horrible idolatries to Moloch, the idol of the Ammonites, from a false zeal (kakozelia) (as is believed) of the sacrifice of Abraham, or in imitation of the cruel superstition of the Phoenicians. They either drew miserable infants through the fire or burnt them resting upon the glowing arms of the statue of Moloch, in the midst of the sounds of flutes and drums that the cries extorted by pain might not be heard. Hence the name typhth given to it from typh, “a drum.” Hence King Josiah in detestation of that dreadful idol-mania began to pollute the place with carcasses and human offal, to bum which a continual fire was kept up (2 K. 23:10), Hence it is not surprising that such a foul place employed both for the torment of fire and infamous on account of its various abominations was used to designate the torments of hell. “The gnawing worm” and “unquenchable [asbestos] fire” (Mk. 9:44). “Outer darkness, where is weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Mt. 22:13). “Everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels” (Mt. 25:41). “The lake of fire and brimstone” (Rev. 19:20). “Eternal judgment” (Heb. 6:2). “The lake and winepress of wrath” (Rev. 14:19). “The wrath to come” (Mt. 3:7). “The second and eternal death” and other appellations.

III. We think it superfluous to inquire whether there is a hell, whatever Epicureans and atheists (who consider it as a mere figment and empty scarecrow of the simple) may say. For it is asserted in so many passages of the Scriptures, and is confirmed by so many arguments (whether from the justice of God, or from the curse of the law, or from the heinousness and demerit of sin, or from the tenors and torments of conscience) that it is a proof not only of the highest impiety, but also madness to question or deny it. Those deriders will too well feel its truth and terribleness to their own great hurt.

IV. But what it is or in what infernal punishments consist, it is not easy to define. It ought to be certain and constant that it is not a mere annihilation (as the Socinians wish) or the punishment of loss, as if it consisted in a simple privation of good without any sense of evil. For undoubtedly both concur here to increase the torments of the wicked. Hence the Scriptures describe these punishments now privatively and negatively (steretikos) by the removal of all good, then positively and affirmatively (thetikos). The negative (steretika) evils are separation from God and Christ and privation of the divine vision: in which is placed the happiness of the saints; separation from the angels and saints (between whom and the damned a great gulf [mega chasma] is said to intervene); a privation of light, joy, glory, felicity and life, and of all good things of whatsoever kind they may be. On the other hand, the positive evils are manifold. These are adumbrated by pains and tortures, by torments, by groans and grief, by cries and wailings, by weeping and gnashing of teeth, by the gnawing worm, by the unquenchable fire and other things of like nature, which are accustomed to imply evils of all kinds in the soul as well as in the body.

V. Whether the fire in which the wicked are to be tormented in soul as well as in body will be material and corporeal is controverted. The Romanists, to prop up their fictitious purgatorial fire (which they hold to be the same with the infernal as to species, but differing only in degree and duration), do not hesitate to assert this and think the soul will be tortured by it. But others far more truly deny it and wish it to be explained metaphorically or allegorically of the most severe tortures of conscience and desperation. (1) Because it is treated of the fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. And yet body cannot act upon a spirit, since it cannot act without contact either mediate or immediate, which does not fall upon a spirit. Nor is it to be said, if the soul cannot by itself and in its own nature be affected by fire, still it can by consent and sympathy with the body. For the soul, as the principal cause of wickedness, ought to be punished immediately and by itself, not sympathetically only. Nor if a corporeal object acts upon the soul objectively and virtually, does it follow that it can do so physically and formally.

VI. (2) The various other phrases by which infernal punishments are described are to be understood not so much properly as allegorically, when they are expressed by “outer darkness,” “the worm,” “gnashing of teeth,” “chains of darkness,” “lake of brimstone,” “prison” and “gulf” and by other things of the same kind. Future punishments are represented by these which in other respects agree neither with the condition of our souls, nor with each other; but all of them set forth the most sad and painful condition of the wicked. For the same reason a metaphorical, not a proper fire is to be understood.

VII. (3) If heavenly goods are depicted under symbols of the most delightful things (which are to be understood not properly, but mystically and figuratively; as when mention is made of Abraham’s bosom, lying down in the kingdom of heaven with the patriarchs, of paradise, the tree of life, treasures, crowns and the like), why should we not think that the Holy Spirit employed equally figurative terms in the description of the opposite evils, so that the most direful torments are adumbrated by fire, which is wont to create the most intense pain?

VIII. Now although we do not think the souls of the damned will be tortured by any material fire; still we are unwilling to say that their bodies will not be cast into some physical fire and be scorched and tormented forever (the Scriptures asserting it so often, although we do not know what kind of fire it will be, or what its nature and condition will be). “Of what kind that infernal fire is,” says Augustine, “I think no man knows” (CG 20.16 [FC 24:291; PL 41.682]). Therefore, we should strive with all care, with the desire of real conversion for this— that we may escape that fire, nor ever experience to our most bitter pain what it is; rather than that by idly disputing concerning its nature, we may with the Scholastics stir up this fire by the sword of contention beyond what is right.

IX. Various adjuncts of those infernal punishments can be noticed. In the first place, inequality according to the various relations of the sins, which is supported by various passages of Scripture. “I say unto you, It shall be more (1) tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you” (Mt. 11:22). “That servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes” (Lk. 12:47, 48). “On account of this ye shall receive a greater condemnation” (krima perissoteron, Mt. 23:14). Reason also persuades us of this because a punishment ought to answer to the guilt, according to the order of distributive justice. Now the guilt is unequal, for some sins are more heinous than others. Therefore the punishments also ought to be unequal, that God may render to each one his due and according to his works. However, the inequality is not to be examined with regard to extension or duration, because to both will be assigned an eternity of punishments (as we will presently show); not with regard to species, but with regard to degrees.

X. (2) The magnitude and intensity of the punishments are so great as can be neither conceived by the mind, nor expressed in words; as to both multitude and universality (inasmuch as they will be tortured not only in the body, but in the soul), nor in one part alone of the former or faculty of the latter, but in all (as they have sinned in all). Nor with only one species of pain and torment, but with all that can be imagined. And indeed with the greatest intensity and degree that the state of the damned will admit. On this account, they are wont to be set forth by the most sad and bitter things, the “gnawing worm,” “fire” perpetually “burning,” “weeping” and “gnashing of teeth,” the “pangs” and “pains of childbirth”; by “disgrace,” confusion and ignominy; by perplexity and the most dreadful torment; and by other similar expressions which exhibit some idea (but altogether imperfect) of the unspeakable tortures they will suffer in the soul as well as in the body. All these sufficiently and more than sufficiently evince the falsity of the figment of those who make the punishments of the wicked to consist in annihilation and nonexistence (anyparxia). For to what end would they be described by the most dreadful pains and torments if it is to be a mere punishment of loss or annihilation? Why should Christ say of a man doomed to the punishment of hell, “It had been good for that man if he had not been bom” (Mt. 26:24)? Nor can it be said that it is called everlasting death and fire not with regard to itself, but with regard to its effects because it reduces him to that state whence they say no one can return. For thus eternal death would overhang and ought to be denounced not only against men, but also against brutes.

2. The greatness and intensity of punishments.

XI. (3) Duration and extension belong to the punishments, not only in their uninterrupted continuity (in as much as the damned will have no interval of rest and relaxation from these most direful torments, but will be tortured day and night, Rev. 14:11; 20:10), but also in their perpetuity and eternity, which will be an immortality as it were of death itself. Hence it is said to be “everlasting shame,” “eternal and inextinguishable fire,” “never ending death.” Thus the infinite demerit of sin is visited as it were with a punishment infinite in duration. And on this account the more justly, that as he will never cease to sin against God, so neither to be punished by him. The guilt of fault will always remain and not be extinguished by any expiation because no place will be given for repentance, but sinners will always be inflamed with madness and hatred against the Judge and will curse him in the midst of the flames. Thus the wrath of God, the most just avenger of crimes, will rest upon them forever. Hence will arise despair and raging as the inevitable consequence because no way of escape will be found out of that most horrible prison.

XII. Hence is evident the worthlessness of the comment of Origen and his followers, who, being preposterously merciful, maintain a certain end of the punishments of the Devil and the wicked; and when they have fulfilled it, they will at length be delivered from them. For since the Scriptures so often assert the eternity of those punishments and compare it with the absolute eternity of the joys of the blessed, who can dream of a limited eternity here? Nor are the greatness and infinity of mercy to be opposed here. For this belongs to the vessels of mercy, not of wrath; to the blessed, not to the damned; for judgment without mercy will belong to them who did not exercise mercy. Nor will the future age be a time of mercy, but only the present because then the gate will be shut, nor will there be any place for pardon.[/FONT]

 

[Rob Callow]

Hell is called in Hebrew sh’vl, in Greek Hades, of the multiple signification of which word we have spoken in Volume II, Topic XIII, Question XVI, Section 3. Here we take it for the place of the damned, as it is taken in Lk. 16:23.

The parable of The Rich Man and Lazarus: Luke 16:19-31

19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell[a] from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”




The parable of The Rich Man and Lazarus clearly describes a place of agony or anguish in “Hades” for that rich man. From that parable we see a man with an abundance of wealth. This man was living in luxury day after day when a beggar was laid at his gate. This beggar remained there very weak and with little or no food, “longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table”(I see nothing here to indicate that the rich man bothered to feed him). He was covered with sores which even the dogs came and licked, (I see nothing here to indicate the rich man bothered about the sores either) and eventually Lazarus died.

I see nothing here to suggest that the rich man actually cared for Lazarus at all. What I do see is an illustration of a rich man, a Hebrew as the parable tells us, living in luxury with only contempt for the law and teaching given through Moses and the Prophets. The contempt he had for Lazarus who happened to be a saved child of God was the contempt he had for the God of Israel. In those days this wealthy son of Abraham would have been made aware of his duty under the moral law, but the same cannot be said for everyone who will be condemned. There will be others condemned who did not have Moses and the Prophets and who did not receive the same moral instruction from them as the nation of Israel did. There will be others condemned who will not have the same contempt for good will as that rich man had.


There is no good reason to believe hell (sheol/Hades) must only mean a place of torment when Scripture also clearly describes a place where “the dead know nothing”

 

[ronathanedwards]

The dead know nothing? ugh... bad Jehovah's Witness argument. What would and infinite, holy God who loves Himself ultimately above all things must do to those who hate what is most ultimately glorious? The soul is eternal, it was breathed into man by God. It is not materiel, but eternal. What then happens to those who hate God?

 

[Rob Callow]

Various synonyms of it occur in the Scriptures: ‘bhdhvn (Prov. 15:11) or perdition (cf. also[bless and do not curse]Prov. 27:20); Gehenna (Mt. 5:22,[bless and do not curse]29), a word derived from the valley of the children of Hinnom, in which the wicked Israelites were accustomed to practice horrible idolatries to Moloch, the idol of the Ammonites, from a false zeal (kakozelia) (as is believed) of the sacrifice of Abraham, or in imitation of the cruel superstition of the Phoenicians. They either drew miserable infants through the fire or burnt them resting upon the glowing arms of the statue of Moloch, in the midst of the sounds of flutes and drums that the cries extorted by pain might not be heard. Hence the name typhth given to it from typh, “a drum.” Hence King Josiah in detestation of that dreadful idol-mania began to pollute the place with carcasses and human offal, to bum which a continual fire was kept up (2 K. 23:10), Hence it is not surprising that such a foul place employed both for the torment of fire and infamous on account of its various abominations was used to designate the torments of hell. “The gnawing worm” and “unquenchable [asbestos] fire” (Mk. 9:44).

Mark 9.42-48 42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. 43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

The words, "their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" can be seen describing a punishment of everlasting torment for those most knowledgeable and most evil of the condemned but they can also be seen describing an endless decomposing and an everlasting destruction of the bodies and souls of the least knowledgeable and least offensive of condemned men, showing there will be no hope of a reprieve or regeneration from death for them. Like the other references, what they cannot be seen doing is providing evidence that an immortal soul has been given to every condemned man.

 

[AMR]

The words, "their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" can be seen describing a punishment of everlasting torment for those most knowledgeable and most evil of the condemned but they can also be seen describing an endless decomposing and an everlasting destruction of the bodies and souls of the least knowledgeable and least offensive of condemned men, showing there will be no hope of a reprieve or regeneration from death for them. Like the other references, what they cannot be seen doing is providing evidence that an immortal soul has been given to every condemned man.

You are wasting your time with this wishful and highly notional thinking.

If you consider yourself open to correction, please read and take seriously:
http://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF Books/The Doctrine of Endless Punishment.pdf

This conversation has run its course. Thanks for stopping by.

 

[Rob Callow]

I believe what Scripture and the Spirit tell me.

Greetings all, I have a problem and some questions for you.

See you soon