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DW1980

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I'm not 100% sure that this is the best forum for this question, so my apologies if it's wrong.

A bit of background: I grew up on the NIV (1984). When I came back to faith I read through the Bible in the TNIV, but switched to the NLT. Last year I felt I should move back to the NIV (I am now using the NIV 2011). But as I did I researched other Bible translations and one of those was the ESV, which I use as a reference Bible. And what some of it's supporters say, strikes me as (with all due respect) a bit KJV Only!

Am I on my own in feeling that there is something of an emergent "ESV Only" movement?

I have seen some people make claims about the NIV in particular, but also other translations, that sound like they are going beyond "the ESV is my preferred translation", to "these other translations are bad because"... Rather than accepting that both are good translations, by excellent scholars, who just happen to approach translation differently (in fact I believe that some translators were on both the NIV and ESV teams!), some "ESV folk" seem to view almost every other translation with suspicion. There are stories of people going into bookshops to buy a different translation and being told the ESV is the most accurate translation (I assume this is not common!), of Churches trying to persuade people to ditch their old Bibles and use the ESV... I could go on.

Is it just me?
 
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Dave-W

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Am I on my own in feeling that there is something of an emergent "ESV Only" movement?
Your post is the first I have heard of it.

I would be ok with a NASB - 1972 only, (if I had to have an English translation as THE standard) because most other translations including the NIV and ESV seem rather "watery" to me.
 
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I am KJV-Only and I remember on another Christian Forum having a heated debate with a person who joked about the ESV being his one and only Bible. However, he was not serious that the ESV was his one and only Bible, though. I pointed out to him that the ESV does have serious flaws within it. The thread was eliminated because I think the website was trying to clear up old content that was bogging down their site or something.
 
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thesunisout

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I haven't heard of that, no. It's kind of surprising that people would think ESV is the best translation, since it has its issues for sure. There isn't a perfect translation, unfortunately. The Spirit has led me to study the NKJV primarily, but I will also use other translations. I think the KJV is probably one of the closest to the original text, but it isn't perfect either. I think we all need to follow the conviction of God as to what translations we should use.
 
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tampasteve

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Interesting. I've not heard of this either. Our youth pastor uses the ESV when he preaches, but the senior pastor uses the pew Bible, the NRSV.
Funny enough both the ESV and NRSV are revisions of the RSV. I have the RSV and ESV but no NRSV, both are good, IMO.
 
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tampasteve

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I have not heard of a specific ESV-O movement like the KJV-O, but it definitely feels that way the way that some people speak of the version. I like it, but it is not the be-all-end-all of translations.

I am now primarily using a NKJV and NIV interlinear for reading and I just ordered a NKJV study bible I am looking forward to. I used to like the ESV a lot, but I have found that I enjoy the way the KJV and NKJV are written a bit better. But they are all good translations for casual study. For deeper study we should reference several version to get a more rounded picture of the text.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I don't know anything about ESV-onlyism, but I'm kinda down on the NIV. I was an early NIV adopter, but then I noticed what I'll call 'editorial bias' in any verses that touched on tradition. The word 'tradition' ALWAYS conveyed a bad meaning in the NIV because any verse where another translation might use the word in a positive sense, that word was not used in the NIV. Seemed there was an anti-Catholic bias not found in RSV or other translations. So while I might still look at a NIV, it is no way a go-to translation for me. Even less so since the new NIV which went gender-neutral. My go to Bible now is the RSV, which Ignatius Press now publishes with a Catholic edition and some updates for archaic words. I still will use a variety of Bibles, but not so much, in fact rarely, the NIV. I do not yet own a ESV. I might get around to buying one some day.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I have not heard of a specific ESV-O movement like the KJV-O, but it definitely feels that way the way that some people speak of the version. I like it, but it is not the be-all-end-all of translations.
I think the be-all-end-all of translations has yet to be written. Have a few million dollars to throw at such a project? We could talk about it then.
 
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tampasteve

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I think the be-all-end-all of translations has yet to be written. Have a few million dollars to throw at such a project? We could talk about it then.
Haha, yeah, not yet. Once I hit the Power Ball I'll earmark some of the funds
 
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chevyontheriver

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Haha, yeah, not yet. Once I hit the Power Ball I'll earmark some of the funds
That's my plan too. But I seldom waste the dollar to buy a ticket. And if you don't buy a ticket you never win. Not that I would anyhow, but it's a daydream.

I have thought about what a be-all-end-all translation would look like though. No time right now to go into it.
 
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tampasteve

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ha, yeah, I don't actually play. I do gamble occasionally, but with things with much better odds - but lower payouts.
 
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JCFantasy23

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I do mainly use the ESV and it's my preferred version, but I don't consider it the only translation worthwhile by any means. I will agree with another poster that I'm not a fan of the NIV, though - I think they simplified it so much they lost some of the meaning in some cases. If doing study of different versions lined up I'll usually use the ESV, RSV and NKJV.
 
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I trust the KJV (or KJB).

Here are Verses that the ESV eliminates from the Word of God:

1 John 5:7

KJB: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

ESV: For there are three that testify.

Note: 1 John 5:7 is the one and only verse in the Bible that tells us clearly about the Trinity point blank. No other verse does this.

Luke 2:33
KJB: And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.

ESV: And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him.

Note: Joseph is the correct translation here. For Joseph was not Jesus's biological father. Sure, one can say that this is in reference to Joseph being his step father, but it is more accurate to say "Joseph" so as to show that Jesus did not have a human father.

Romans 8:1
KJB: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

ESV: There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Note: Eliminating the words "walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" in Romans 8:1 removes the key answer to Paul's problem he had when he was a Pharisee struggling to obey the Old Law in Romans 7:14-24. Walking after the Spirit is the key to not being under the Condemnation and in overcoming sin. Romans 13:14 says, put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

1 Timothy 3:16
KJB: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

ESV: Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

Note: The ESV eliminates the clarity of truth that it was God who was manifest in the flesh. So next you are debating a JW, etc. and you try to use an ESV for this verse, you will crippled.

1 Peter 1:22
KJB: Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

ESV: Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart,

Note: Apparently the ESV wants to de-emphasize the importance that it is through the Spirit that purify our souls by obeying the truth (i.e. God's Word).

Romans 11:6
KJB: And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

ESV: But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Note: The ESV eliminates the words that refutes the false belief of Works Alone Salvationism. Please take note that the Bible does teach that we are saved both God's grace (Justification) and by God's works done through us (Sanctification).
1 Corinthians 7:39
KJB: The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

ESV: A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:47
KJB: The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

ESV: The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.

Revelation 1:8
KJB: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

ESV: "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Revelation 1:11
KJB: Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

ESV: saying, "Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."

Revelation 5:14
KJB: And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

ESV: And the four living creatures said, "Amen!" and the elders fell down and worshiped.

Galatians 3:1
KJB: O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

ESV: O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.

Galatians 3:17
KJB: And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

ESV: This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.

Ephesians 3:9
KJB: And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

ESV: and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things,

Ephesians 3:14
KJB: For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

ESV: For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,

Ephesians 5:30
KJB: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

ESV: because we are members of his body.

Colossians1:14
KJB: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

ESV: in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

1 Timothy 2:7
KJB: Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

ESV: For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

John 16:16
KJB: A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

ESV: "A little while, and you will see me no longer; and again a little while, and you will see me."

Acts 2:30
KJB: Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

ESV: Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne,

Acts 8:37
KJB: And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

ESV: Omitted

1 John 5:13
KJB: These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

ESV: I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Matthew 17:21

KJB: Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

ESV: Omitted

Revelation 20:12
KJB: And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

ESV: And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.

Revelation 21:24
KJB: And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

ESV: By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it,

Matthew 19:9
KJB: And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

ESV: And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery."

Matthew 27:35
KJB: And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

ESV: And when they had crucified him, they divided his garments among them by casting lots.

Mark 6:11
KJB: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Mark 9:44, 46
KJB:{ 44} Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. {46} Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

ESV: Omitted

Mark 11:26
KJB: But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

ESV: Omitted


ESV: And if any place will not receive you and they will not listen to you, when you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as a testimony against them."

Mark 15:28
KJB: And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.

ESV: Omitted

Luke 4:4
KJB: And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

ESV: And Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone.'"

Luke 9:55
KJB: But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

ESV:
But he turned and rebuked them.

Luke 23:17
KJB: (For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)

ESV: Omitted

Luke 23:38
KJB: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

ESV: There was also an inscription over him, "This is the King of the Jews."

John 5:4
KJB: For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.

ESV: Omitted

John 6:47
KJB: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

ESV: Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

Acts 7:37
KJB: This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

ESV: This is the Moses who said to the Israelites, 'God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers.'

Romans 16:24
KJB: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

ESV: Omitted

1 Corinthians 6:20
KJB: For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

ESV: for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.


Here are verses that the ESV alters from the Word of God:


Daniel 3:25
KJB:
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

ESV: He answered and said, “But I see four men unbound, walking in the midst of the fire, and they are not hurt; and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods.”

Isaiah 14:12
KJB:
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

ESV: “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!

Note: 2 Peter 1:19 says, "until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:"

Micah 5:2
KJB: But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah,
though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

ESV: But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days.

Note: This verse above is talking about the Messiah. The Messiah (Jesus) is from everlasting and not just from the ancient of days.

Source used:
The English Standard Version Exposed
 
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HereIStand

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There are advantages to the KJV. I like that it includes the "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen" portion of the Lord's Prayer. Also, prefer that the women caught in adultery passage in John 7 is not placed in brackets, as it is in the ESV.
 
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Halbhh

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Wow, that's interesting that some people are doing an ESV-onlyism! It's a pretty good translation, but if it wasn't around, we'd have several other excellent modern translations and would be fine. I know from often doing comparison at Biblehub that the NIV2011 is fairly good, and the NASB also, and that's just for a start (and I've read dozens of hours of pure reading in them also, many books through, each).

I don't have an only-ism, but I do like BibleHub for comparing key verses:

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them. (NIV)

but notice:

English Standard Version
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

Berean Literal Bible
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Notable for instance is you can get 2 good literal translations here: Berean and Young's Literal. And also the commentaries! And links to more commentaries at the bottom.

But no matter the translation, or commentaries, the only good way to understand is to be reading through (the entire book) without any agenda except only to listen and hear and have it soak in past any mental blocks like preconceived ideas/doctrines, so that you truly can get the real messages, which are deep and many, and many still awaiting us all inside the gospels, even on the 4th or 6th time through one.
 
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Let us not turn this into a "this translation is better because XYZ" thread. We could post a list of translation issues with the KJV too and I do not think any of us want to turn this into another KJV-O debate thread.

I have yet to run into a supposed KJV contradiction that I could not provide a sound explanation for. Too many times, people do not pray and or seek what the Word of God is really saying and they just write it off as an error (When they simply do not understand it).

Side Note:

When one brings up the topic of whether the ESV has it's own movement like the KJV, I would not say it is wrong to tell the truth of the existence of the pure of God (i.e. the KJV). You may not agree with that truth, but it is true and good never the less.

There are two vines.

Vine #1 - The Modern Translations (Critical Text).
Vine #2. - The KJV (Textus Receptus).

Granted, I use Modern Translations to help update the old 1600's English in the KJV, but I do not make the Modern Translations my final word of authority. To me it is strange not to have one Word of God that is nailed down to believe in. For I can make the Word of God say what I like to an extent with a Modern Translation I prefer. But if I believe there is one Word of God (i.e. the KJV), I have no such excuse. The Word of God changes me and I do not change what the Word of God says.
 
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tampasteve

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Sorry, I deleted my post that you quoted (before you replied, we must have crossed times) as it did not contribute to the conversation. This is best left to another thread, of which there are already many. As I said earlier, I prefer the KJV and NKJV (I know it is not using the same exact textual basis or translation).
 
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Regardless, it is not wrong to show the true Word of God (KJV) and how the ESV does not measure up. Post #14 clearly shows that the ESV is seriously flawed. The topic is if there is an ESV only movement. I know many who have said they prefer the ESV but it is not their one and only Bible. Post #14 should refute anyone's thinking that the ESV should be a person's preferred Bible because it seeks to eliminate and water down important truths within our Bible (the KJV).
 
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