"Established in" vs. "suspended from"

[kenneth558]

Does anyone think that "the things" of 2 Peter were to be "suspended" instead of kept "always in rememberence"?

2 Peter 1:12-15 -

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath showed me. Moreover I will endeavor that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance

If so, you have to think that the above passage is private truth, against 2 Peter 1:20 -

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.

To me, the most straightforward understanding of this passage means we cannot say that the "present truth" has become present-day error, as a lot of dispensationalists seem to imply. I really need to know chapter and verse that says the above verses, along with 2 Peter 3:17, are now obsolete so that we can suspend Peter's "present truth", not just so I can argue the point on this forum. Just showing that Paul's ministry and Peter's were different won't be enough. I need to know why they both can't be or shouldn't be true at the same time now just like they were then. Thank you.

 

[eph3Nine]

Peter is not the apostle appointed to ESTABLISH me , or any other member of the Body of Christ , in anything!

Paul is the ONLY one given that distinction...and the gospel that he preached is the gospel of OUR salvation today!

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1 Thessalonians 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

 

[rightlydividingtheword]

Peter is not the apostle appointed to ESTABLISH me , or any other member of the Body of Christ , in anything!
Paul is the ONLY one given that distinction...and the gospel that he preached is the gospel of OUR salvation today!

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1 Thessalonians 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

amen my siter amen my siter

 

[kenneth558]

Peter is not the apostle appointed to ESTABLISH me , or any other member of the Body of Christ , in anything!

Paul is the ONLY one given that distinction...and the gospel that he preached is the gospel of OUR salvation today!

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1 Thessalonians 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

You sure feel free to say Peter was wrong about "private interpretation". Jesus said scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35), so you must be saying that Peter's epistle is not scripture. So Peter was a false prophet?

 

[eph3Nine]

You sure feel free to say Peter was wrong about "private interpretation". Jesus said scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35), so you must be saying that Peter's epistle is not scripture. So Peter was a false prophet?

I get very cranky when someone tells me what I MEANT...LOL LOL...so DONT do it, please. Thank you.

The gospel Peter preached was TRUE and GOOD...it just wasnt to US, the church which is His Body. Peters words ARE inspired. They were TO the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL and to no one else. Scripture tells us this.

So..Peter was a minister to the CIRCUMCISION...ie: to Israel.

He also recognized that Paul was given NEW information and that the duty of ministering to the gentile nations was passed onto him , instead of to ISRAEL...they were set aside and Peter knew it. He acknowledged that God was doing something NEW, and limited himself to preaching to the JEWS ALONE, with THEIR message.

 

[kenneth558]

I get very cranky when someone tells me what I MEANT...LOL LOL...so DONT do it, please. Thank you.

The gospel Peter preached was TRUE and GOOD...it just wasnt to US, the church which is His Body. Peters words ARE inspired. They were TO the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL and to no one else. Scripture tells us this.

So..Peter was a minister to the CIRCUMCISION...ie: to Israel.

He also recognized that Paul was given NEW information and that the duty of ministering to the gentile nations was passed onto him , instead of to ISRAEL...they were set aside and Peter knew it. He acknowledged that God was doing something NEW, and limited himself to preaching to the JEWS ALONE, with THEIR message.

True or False: no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. (2 Peter 1:20b). If you say "true" but then explain why it is really "false", you have a serious problem.

 

[eph3Nine]

Youre right...no scripture of prophecy is open to private interpretation. However, we are no longer IN the prophetic program. It CEASED when God temporarily SET ASIDE Israel and her program. We are now in the MYSTERY program, where I dont have to apply prophetic words to myself, as they were intended for the Nation Israel, and not to me as a member of Christs body.

Prophecy explains itself when we rightly divide. It is the prophetic books that speak of Israel and Gods dealings with HER. It is the MYSTERY truths that explain OUR program to us today.

If you dont see the difference then you havent recognized CHRISTIANITY , but are still holding yourself to promises and instructions never addressed to you in the first place.

 

[kenneth558]

Youre right...no scripture of prophecy is open to private interpretation. However, we are no longer IN the prophetic program. It CEASED when God temporarily SET ASIDE Israel and her program. We are now in the MYSTERY program, where I dont have to apply prophetic words to myself, as they were intended for the Nation Israel, and not to me as a member of Christs body.

Prophecy explains itself when we rightly divide. It is the prophetic books that speak of Israel and Gods dealings with HER. It is the MYSTERY truths that explain OUR program to us today.

If you dont see the difference then you havent recognized CHRISTIANITY , but are still holding yourself to promises and instructions never addressed to you in the first place.

So you haven't been taught properly what prophecy really is. That's understandable, and neither was I. Here's what prophecy is - it is speaking forth the secrets revealed to you through the spirit. The secrets are most obviously secrets when they reveal the future. But they can be secrets about anything else, too. For example, Jesus prophesied to Nathanael and the woman at the well. Daniel prophesied Nebuchadnezzar's dream to him. All three audiences were unbelievers or doubters and all three responded to prophecy with worship and acknowledgement, just as 1 Cor 14:24-25 says will happen when a church prophesies to an unbeliever:

But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

Here is Nebuchadnezzar's response:

Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him. The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.

Here is Nathanael's response:

Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Here is the woman's response:

Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
...
The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men, Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?
...
the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

So Peter also received a secret through the spirit when he challenged Ananias and Sapphira right before they dropped dead at his feet. Really, anytime "holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" they were probably prophesying, including Peter as he writes his epistles, and Paul writing his. Remember that Paul said he gave "the commandments of the Lord".

It's also too bad that you think prophecy has passed away. I suppose that means you now despise prophecies when they are given today? That would mean that you toss out 1 Thess. 5:20. And you obviously don't covet to prophesy (1 Cor 12 & 14). And how do you handle the two witnesses in Revelation prophesying? Oh, I know - it comes back. But then it hasn't really failed now, has it? And how can it fail before all scripture prophecies have been fulfilled?

Could I share something with you? Prophecy is for today. I know it because I checked it out. You should to, with an honest heart. When Jesus said that scripture cannot be broken, He meant NONE of it can be broken. If just one single scripture, like "despise not prophesyings", is broken, then Jesus lied.

 

[sanct1fym3]

Where do we get the power to prophesy, and what is the semantic range for the word? You use it to mean "speaking forth the secrets revealed to you by the spirit." And I agree, but not extrabiblical revelation, revelation in the bible. Prophesy is a very valid gift and it's the one that pastors use wqhen they reveal the true meaning of a verse in the bible. Prophesy anymore, in this dispensation, is only from the bible, so if i got a dream other than the bible and it coincided with the bible, it woulb be God himself telling me. Where do we draw the line then? In the bible.

 

[eph3Nine]

Where do we get the power to prophesy, and what is the semantic range for the word? You use it to mean "speaking forth the secrets revealed to you by the spirit." And I agree, but not extrabiblical revelation, revelation in the bible. Prophesy is a very valid gift and it's the one that pastors use wqhen they reveal the true meaning of a verse in the bible. Prophesy anymore, in this dispensation, is only from the bible, so if i got a dream other than the bible and it coincided with the bible, it woulb be God himself telling me. Where do we draw the line then? In the bible.

Amen...God now speaks to us through His COMPLETED Word. We now already HAVE all the information we need.

Also we need to remember that Israels program is considered PROPHETIC. OURS is called a MYSTERY. God isnt in the prophetic program today, but has switched gears and INTERRUPTED PROPHECY with an unscheduled and unprophesied event that He kept HID and SECRET until due time. People are always on and on about "prophecy"....what about the MYSTERY??? Thats the information we are IN and are all about NOW! Why dont ya hear people talking about THAT? I will tell you why. Because Satan is doing all he can to obscure Gods REVELATION to mankind that supercedes prophecy in this dispensation. He wants people IGNORANT of the Mystery truths given to Paul for we the Body of Christ.And I must admit, hes doin a fine job of it!

No wonder Paul exhorts us so many times NOT to be ignorant of the Mystery...perhaps because even in his day, there were those who wanted to go BACK to Peters program for Israel and disregard Gods NEW instructions.

 

[kenneth558]

Prophesy anymore, in this dispensation, is only from the bible

If you are trying to say that something about the essence of prophecy has changed since who knows when, where is your scripture reference? The Bible never says the essence of what prophecy is will change. It says prophesies will fail (1 Cor. 13:8).

God still gifts people of His choosing to be able to know things about others that would be secret (1 Cor. 12:8-10, 13:9 - note the present tense). He tells us the gift is one of the greatest spiritual gifts because an unsaved person or one who is ignorant about prophecy will fall in his/her face in worship and declaration of the presence of God (1 Cor 14:24-25). "Would God that all the LORD's people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!" (Num. 11:29)

Example: A friend of mine whose name is John S. seems to have this gift. In one case, his teen-age daughter brought a friend into the house and announced to her friend that John prophesies. She then asked her dad to prophesy to this friend. John was caught off-guard and had never met this friend nor knew hardly anything about her. But John quickly asked the Lord for a word, and the Lord showed John that this girl friend had recently attempted suicide, going so far as to hold a knife against her wrist. But because she was concerned about the blood getting all over the carpet, she went into the kitchen above the sink to continue. Before she actully cut herself, she changed her mind.

When John told the girl these things, she wept and confessed them to be true, though she had told no one and no one saw her do them.

John should have used this opportunity to lead the girl to Christ, but evidently he didn't have that much wisdom. She later did commit suicide.

In another case, John was performing furnace or A/C service at a customer's home. The customer, for no apparent reason, started saying that he didn't believe in God, yada, yada. The Spirit immediately revealed to John that this very man had just the day before or so cried out to God as he lay prone on his carpet, asking God to show Himself if He really existed. John told the guy something like, "Oh, really? You don't believe in God, but you cried out to him from down on your carpet just yesterday asking Him to show Himself to you if He was really real." The customer was stunned and indicated that John spoke the truth.

Whoever is telling you that prophecy is only the quoting of the Word is very unfamiliar with prophecy. Look in the Bible for what prophecy is. That way you'll know you're right. Read these verses - I linked them so you have no excuse. If you read them in this order, they are precept upon precept:
I Cor 14:24-25
Daniel 2, esp v. 46-47. Note that this chapter contains more occurances of "secret" than any other chapter in the Bible.
John 1:46-50 Note Nathanael's expression of doubt.
John 4:17-42
Luke 7:39
Luke 22:64
Acts 11:27-28
Acts 20:23
Acts 21:10-11
Amos 3:7

If these things don't stir your heart to want to prophesy, you need to read 1 Cor 12:31, 14:1, and 14:39 and OBEY.

 

[eph3Nine]

It amazes me that the Corinthian church was so immature and weak in their faith that the sign gifts were of such importance. Those gifts ceased with the SETTING ASIDE of Israel.

Your friend with the "gift" could just as easily been given this "knowledge" thru an EVIL spirit, as God isnt into these kinds of circus shows and jumping thru hoops and signs and wonders any more. Interesting that your friend, tho he thot this gift was from God ,didnt have the sense to share the gospel with her????? LOL LOL I think there is no doubt who was in control here...and it wasnt God. God wants "all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth"...does this sound like any truth that would save the girl was shared? NOPE....the guys FLESH was showing off and he didnt even CARE about the spiritual destiny of the girl. Thats tragic...and that is how satan works in his "lying signs and wonders" and the workers of iniquity. The poor girl went on to kill herself...my my my....satan comes to KILL , steal and destroy.

In these last days God has spoken to us thru His Son...not thru signs and wonders....or supernatural gifts. ALL we need to know is found in OUR information found in Romans thru Philemon. God isnt giving any NEW information out!!! Pauls MYSTERY truths which he received from the RISEN CHRIST to give to us, the Body of Christ, is the LAST new revelation given to mankind.

NOW, we are to walk by FAITH in that information, and NOT by sight, as satan and his ministers of righteousness and angels of light wish us to do.

Sad sad sad...that even the elect are deceived because they do not rightly divide Gods Word as He told us to do. Tsk tsk tsk

 

[sanct1fym3]

Amen...God now speaks to us through His COMPLETED Word. We now already HAVE all the information we need.

Also we need to remember that Israels program is considered PROPHETIC. OURS is called a MYSTERY. God isnt in the prophetic program today, but has switched gears and INTERRUPTED PROPHECY with an unscheduled and unprophesied event that He kept HID and SECRET until due time. People are always on and on about "prophecy"....what about the MYSTERY??? Thats the information we are IN and are all about NOW! Why dont ya hear people talking about THAT? I will tell you why. Because Satan is doing all he can to obscure Gods REVELATION to mankind that supercedes prophecy in this dispensation. He wants people IGNORANT of the Mystery truths given to Paul for we the Body of Christ.And I must admit, hes doin a fine job of it!

No wonder Paul exhorts us so many times NOT to be ignorant of the Mystery...perhaps because even in his day, there were those who wanted to go BACK to Peters program for Israel and disregard Gods NEW instructions.

Yeah good points

 

[sanct1fym3]

It amazes me that the Corinthian church was so immature and weak in their faith that the sign gifts were of such importance. Those gifts ceased with the SETTING ASIDE of Israel.

Your friend with the "gift" could just as easily been given this "knowledge" thru an EVIL spirit, as God isnt into these kinds of circus shows and jumping thru hoops and signs and wonders any more. Interesting that your friend, tho he thot this gift was from God ,didnt have the sense to share the gospel with her????? LOL LOL I think there is no doubt who was in control here...and it wasnt God. God wants "all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth"...does this sound like any truth that would save the girl was shared? NOPE....the guys FLESH was showing off and he didnt even CARE about the spiritual destiny of the girl. Thats tragic...and that is how satan works in his "lying signs and wonders" and the workers of iniquity. The poor girl went on to kill herself...my my my....satan comes to KILL , steal and destroy.

In these last days God has spoken to us thru His Son...not thru signs and wonders....or supernatural gifts. ALL we need to know is found in OUR information found in Romans thru Philemon. God isnt giving any NEW information out!!! Pauls MYSTERY truths which he received from the RISEN CHRIST to give to us, the Body of Christ, is the LAST new revelation given to mankind.

NOW, we are to walk by FAITH in that information, and NOT by sight, as satan and his ministers of righteousness and angels of light wish us to do.

Sad sad sad...that even the elect are deceived because they do not rightly divide Gods Word as He told us to do. Tsk tsk tsk

True, do you know who speaks in signs and wonders? satan... I grew up among the Yanomamo tribes in Venezuela and i saw satan working in prophesy tongues, and proffessed visions... It scares me the paralells in charismatic churches.

 

[eph3Nine]

True, do you know who speaks in signs and wonders? satan... I grew up among the Yanomamo tribes in Venezuela and i saw satan working in prophesy tongues, and proffessed visions... It scares me the paralells in charismatic churches.

Wow...then you have seen this first hand. I know some of my missionary friends have spoken of this being a real problem amongst natives, and that the natives themselves knew when it was evil spirits but the "christians" had a hard time discerning....LOL...interesting , ehhh?

 

[sanct1fym3]

If you ever have extra time read "spirit of the rain forest" By Mark Ritchie, this is a book about the People Group my 'rents were missionaries to, the yanomamo had real powers, and real gifts. This is a problem in many cultures, the biggest problem though is syncrotism, where they Just put God as another one of their gods, and try to please him through their sick rituals.