Essenes

rivertree · Jun 25, 2012

Thank you Jesse, I will rememember your warning about extra-Bibical material. By the way I also read more about the life of Emmerich, (sorry, I temporarily can't quite remember how the rest of her name goes).

I was very touched by the difficult life that she had, and I did notice the carefulness with which the church sought beautification while eliminating the jounalist's work as a consideration.

Aside from the authenticity, I observed that much of the story took place in Elijah's cave at Mt. Horeb. This interested me as concerning the the essene question, because I know that there is inerest in the idea of John the Baptist as an essene, and that scripture describes John the Baptist as having come in the spirit of Elijah.

Erik Nelson · Oct 16, 2018

https://weekly.israelbiblecenter.com/all-in-things-in-common/

https://israelstudycenter.com/who-was-the-first-comforter/

according to the book THE JEWISH GOSPEL OF JOHN, the man carrying the water jug in Jerusalem, whom Jesus instructed the apostles to follow, must have been an Essene, because otherwise no Jewish man would have been carrying water. Whereas the Essenes had no female members and so required men to do "women's work"

Erik Nelson · Oct 16, 2018

according to the book THE FORGOTTEN JESUS by Robby Gallaty, john the Baptist may have been an Essene. His elderly parents may have left him an orphan at a young age, and he may have grown up in the wilderness because he was adopted by the desert dwelling Essenes.

brinny · Oct 16, 2018

rivertree said:
I don't know if you have had discussions here about the essenes- I tried to check back a bit but could not find posts about them.

I'm sort of fascinated with the essenes.

I read on a Jewish site once that stated the ancient Jews thought of the essenes as a branch of or type of pharisees. I don't know what their sources were, they seemed to be a pretty conservative site.

One thing I know about the essenes, they seemed to follow very strict rules- that would be similar to the pharisees.

Some say Jesus or rhe early Christians may have been influenced by the essenes. I know there were some familiar wordings about darkness and light in their writings. and it's been a while since I read about it, but I think they had some sort of ceremonial supper that might bear some familiarity to that mentioned in the New Testament.

If Jesus did come out of or was influenced by the essenes, I know he rejected at least some of their rules and revealed many spiritual principles. He seemed very concerned that we not be burdened down with rules, or led by the "blind leading the blind". He wanted (wants) us to commune with the Father individually and communally.

There is more information that lead some to believe that John the Baptist may have been an essene.

Anyway, I would like to know so much more on this subject.

Some say Jesus or rhe early Christians may have been influenced by the essenes.

How and/or why would Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God, Who came to this world to suffer, bleed and die for all of mankind as Savior, be "influenced" by ANYTHING or ANYONE?

Erik Nelson · Oct 16, 2018

brinny said:
How and/or why would Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God, Who came to this world to suffer, bleed and die for all of mankind as Savior, be "influenced" by ANYTHING or ANYONE?

Jesus and his earthy family were obviously Jews generally...

but weren't Sadducees specifically

Jesus and Paul were more similar to Gamaliel and the Pharisees... But Jesus wasn't a member of their faction either

plausibly, the Essenes were the Jewish faction most similar to Jesus and John the Baptist, from whose ranks they and their families arose...

though obviously John's father was a priest and presumably a Sadducee?

brinny · Oct 17, 2018

brinny said: ↑
How and/or why would Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God, Who came to this world to suffer, bleed and die for all of mankind as Savior, be "influenced" by ANYTHING or ANYONE?

Erik Nelson said:
Jesus and his earthy family were obviously Jews generally...

but weren't Sadducees specifically

Jesus and Paul were more similar to Gamaliel and the Pharisees... But Jesus wasn't a member of their faction either

plausibly, the Essenes were the Jewish faction most similar to Jesus and John the Baptist, from whose ranks they and their families arose...

though obviously John's father was a priest and presumably a Sadducee?

Are you saying that Jesus the Christ, the Savior, God incarnate, was "influenced" by ANYONE here on earth who all of which were headed to hell, and of whom He came to "save"?

He came to earth to be "influenced" by someone, anyone? He came to be "influenced" by the "lost"? By "fallen man"?

Would you care to elaborate?

Erik Nelson · Oct 17, 2018

brinny said:
Are you saying that Jesus the Christ, the Savior, God incarnate, was "influenced" by ANYONE here on earth who all of which were headed to hell, and of whom He came to "save"?

He came to earth to be "influenced" by someone, anyone? He came to be "influenced" by the "lost"? By "fallen man"?

Would you care to elaborate?

No, I'm just saying that people have argued persuasively that the Essenes were the sect of Jews, who were most similar to or at least. Least dissimilar to the Messiah and John the Baptist.

brinny · Oct 17, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
No, I'm just saying that people have argued persuasively that the Essenes were the sect of Jews, who were most similar to or at least. Least dissimilar to the Messiah and John the Baptist.

I asked about "influence".

To be "influenced" by means to be "swayed" by and/or "inspired" by, etc.

Was Jesus the Christ "inspired" by fallen man?

Root of Jesse · Oct 17, 2018

Brinny, I don't take his statement that way. I think he's saying that Jesus' family was probably closer to Essene than Sadduccee or Pharisee. I think that's right. Jesus was there to be The Influence, not to be influenced. He couldn't have been from a Sadducee family because they don't believe in resurrection, which makes them very sad...you see? And he was critical of both Sadducee and Pharisee. I look at John the Baptist as an Essene (though he joined, not born into it), but Jesus was apolitical, in my view, regardless of where his family came from. The Catholic tradition says that Mary's parents consecrated her to be a temple virgin, and their relationship to Elizabeth, the parents of John the Baptist could bear that out.

Erik Nelson · Oct 18, 2018

Root of Jesse said:
Brinny, I don't take his statement that way. I think he's saying that Jesus' family was probably closer to Essene than Sadduccee or Pharisee. I think that's right. Jesus was there to be The Influence, not to be influenced. He couldn't have been from a Sadducee family because they don't believe in resurrection, which makes them very sad...you see? And he was critical of both Sadducee and Pharisee. I look at John the Baptist as an Essene (though he joined, not born into it), but Jesus was apolitical, in my view, regardless of where his family came from. The Catholic tradition says that Mary's parents consecrated her to be a temple virgin, and their relationship to Elizabeth, the parents of John the Baptist could bear that out.

yes thank you obviously Jesus Christ started and initiated his own movement, which grew into the Church

that movement is stated to have attracted converts from all other factions and sects of first century Judaism, even from the Sadducees and Pharisees...

thousands on Pentecost (30ad)
tens of thousands as of Saint Paul's return to Jerusalem (60ad)
144,000 by the end of "Babylon" where the Lord was crucified (70ad)

but Jesus and his followers were not Essenes, or the NT writings would all have been hidden in the Qumran caves and the Christians wiped out in 68ad by the pagan Roman legions

but the Christians survived because they escaped to Pella according to the commands of Jesus...

obviously the Essenes did not obey Jesus' commands because they therefore obviously didn't recognize him as the Messiah and so obviously cannot be considered Christians

but even though they were wiped out in 68ad, they may say have had the highest percentage of Christian conversions of any first century Jewish sect, or something like that

Rubiks · Nov 6, 2018

There are very few scholars who argue for Jesus being an Essene. While there are some teachings of Jesus that were similar to the Essenes, there were many more teachings that are the antithesis of the Essenes' teaching.

Essenes

rivertree

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brinny

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