Epistemology and Prophetic Status

[2PhiloVoid]

The question for this thread is straightforward and simple:

Keeping the concept of Epistemology in mind which has to do with the way(s) we justify our claims of knowledge, how and by what method does a Christian "know" when he or she qualifies as, or has been given the status of, an authentic prophet or prophetess from God ?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Old Testament prophets didn't have to "know". They were compelled and/or ordered to speak the words God gave them.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The question for this thread is straightforward and simple:

Keeping the concept of Epistemology in mind which has to do with the way(s) we justify our claims of knowledge, how and by what method does a Christian "know" when he or she qualifies as, or has been given the status of, an authentic prophet or prophetess from God ?

Authentication is held by those who are not prophesying. Those with the gift of discernment. We must test every spirit. Blessings.

 

[com7fy8]

Old Testament prophets didn't have to "know". They were compelled and/or ordered to speak the words God gave them.

I would say it was not a status thing. And it seems people knew who the real prophets were.

It seems there were times when the LORD simply spoke to someone who would be a prophet, and at first no one or only some witness knew.

But I recall the Jews were told that if someone claimed to prophesy but something did not come to pass, do not regard that person. But . . . in case something did come to pass but the person told people not to follow the LORD, that was a test . . . do not regard that person, also.

But what if someone comes my way and I do not know the person's record? God could have him simply say something to me. How do I know? I believe God is able to have me know. And part of knowing comes with if the person ministers God's grace to effect me deeply. I do not go just by say-so or claims of evidence outward.

And I can test if God has me do whatever the prophet says to do. I can pray and stay submissive to God, and see if He has me do what the person said to do . . . plus find out how God has it happen, with His timing included > do not only do my own version of what I suppose a prophet has said.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Old Testament prophets didn't have to "know". They were compelled and/or ordered to speak the words God gave them.

I admit that some of what we find in the Old Testament seems to reflect the dynamics you're referring to. But even if this is the case, am I correct in understanding you to be saying that if I am a true prophet of God, then when God tells me to tell other people a message I still won't know that I'm truly a prophet?

Do we want to say, then, that if I'm a prophet I won't be certain I'm being sent by God even though I think I've heard from Him?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Authentication is held by those who are not prophesying. Those with the gift of discernment. We must test every spirit. Blessings.

I suppose you're correct on this, but is this to say that if I am a real prophet of God then others will always acknowledge my authentic prophesying on God's behalf?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I would say it was not a status thing. And it seems people knew who the real prophets were.

It seems there were times when the LORD simply spoke to someone who would be a prophet, and at first no one or only some witness knew.

But I recall the Jews were told that if someone claimed to prophesy but something did not come to pass, do not regard that person. But . . . in case something did come to pass but the person told people not to follow the LORD, that was a test . . . do not regard that person, also.

But what if someone comes my way and I do not know the person's record? God could have him simply say something to me. How do I know? I believe God is able to have me know. And part of knowing comes with if the person ministers God's grace to effect me deeply. I do not go just by say-so or claims of evidence outward.

And I can test if God has me do whatever the prophet says to do. I can pray and stay submissive to God, and see if He has me do what the person said to do . . . plus find out how God has it happen, with His timing included > do not only do my own version of what I suppose a prophet has said.

Yes, but I'm not really asking about all of that. I'm asking about the instance wherein when God has designated you as one of His true prophets, how you'll "know" it.

Or, I can ask: if you're a prophet of God will you be "certain" that that is what you are? If not, then how does a Christian 'test' himself to see if he's authentic and has been selected by God to prophesy to other people?

 

[public hermit]

Old Testament prophets didn't have to "know". They were compelled and/or ordered to speak the words God gave them.

Assuming one is compelled to speak, which I think is commensurate with the scriptural witness concerning prophets, then that one also knows one is so compelled, right? If I am compelled to speak a word, then I will know I'm a prophet.

I don't think one can be a legitimate prophet and not know (in the strong sense of being justified by direct call), but I do think one can be a prophet and no one else knows the calling is justified. That makes it complicated and opens the doors for charlatans. Still, most of the OT prophets were regarded as frauds because they didn't say what the people wanted to hear. <----- let that be a lesson, perhaps.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I suppose you're correct on this, but is this to say that if I am a real prophet of God then others will always acknowledge my authentic prophesying on God's behalf?

Only if the Holy Spirit is at work. Those walking with the Spirit recognize each other. There is always just a remnant that stay on that narrow path. Its pretty narrow.

 

[public hermit]

Philo, this would be a good question for our charismatic cousins; the ones who say the gifts have not ended. No disrespect because I know that is touchy. But fruitful "dialogue," oh my.

 

[topher694]

The question for this thread is straightforward and simple:

Keeping the concept of Epistemology in mind which has to do with the way(s) we justify our claims of knowledge, how and by what method does a Christian "know" when he or she qualifies as, or has been given the status of, an authentic prophet or prophetess from God ?

It will be confirmed by another experienced Prophet or Apostle.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I admit that some of what we find in the Old Testament seems to reflect the dynamics you're referring to. But even if this is the case, am I correct in understanding you to be saying that if I am a true prophet of God, then when God tells me to tell other people a message I still won't know that I'm truly a prophet?

Do we want to say, then, that if I'm a prophet I won't be certain I'm being sent by God even though I think I've heard from Him?

Let's take Jeremiah (20:9)

I say, “I won’t mention him
or speak any longer in his name.
But his message becomes a fire burning in my heart,
shut up in my bones.
I become tired of holding it in,
and I cannot prevail.

Knowledge is certainly implied, or perhaps delusion. But it doesn't matter. Either way he has to speak out. There is no need or even opportunity to discern on his part.

And Jonah tried not to speak out.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Assuming one is compelled to speak, which I think is commensurate with the scriptural witness concerning prophets, then that one also knows one is so compelled, right? If I am compelled to speak a word, then I will know I'm a prophet.

You will only know for sure that you are compelled to speak. I personally would take it on faith that it is the Lord compelling me.

 

[com7fy8]

Or, I can ask: if you're a prophet of God will you be "certain" that that is what you are? If not, then how does a Christian 'test' himself to see if he's authentic and has been selected by God to prophesy to other people?

God can have you know. It is simply how He gets through to you and makes you certain, satisfied.

But in general we need to become able to submit to God, all the time > Jesus says to learn this, I would say He means in Matthew 11:29. And Colossians 3:15 says to always be ruled by God in His peace. And as we grow in this ability, now we can know what is God, for every moment. So, if He has you prophesy, this simply fits in with how already you are maturing in sensing and doing what He has you doing.

Plus . . . now we are family, in Jesus. So, being a prophet now is a family blessing, with others supporting and confirming the person. But before Jesus . . . it seems to me . . . a prophet could be more isolated and over others.

And have you read and fed on 1 Corinthians 14:3? Here is something which it seems a lot of people do not know about the real ministry of a prophet.

 

[topher694]

I wonder how much practical experience with the prophetic some people giving advice actually have.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I wonder how much practical experience with the prophetic some people giving advice actually have.

That's an excellent point, topher! But at the same time, I'm more concerned with how individuals today who claim to know that he/she is a modern prophet of the Lord mentally structure epistemologically what they claim to be certain about.

I mean, if I wanted to, I could have a discussion over what certain scholars or leaders think are the modern criteria of knowing that one is a prophet. I could bring in books like Thomas W. Gillespie's, The First Theologians: A Study in Early Christian Prophecy, or Randy Clark & Mary Healy's, The Spiritual Gifts Handbook, but if I did that then I'm not sure I'd hear from individuals themselves who think they prophetically "know" that they "know" from God.

So, what epistemological criteria do you think are involved in a modern Christian knowing that he or she is indeed a prophet of God?

 

[topher694]

That's an excellent point, tophe! But at the same time, I'm more concerned with how individuals today who claim to know that he/she is a modern prophet of the Lord mentally structure epistemologically what they claim.

I mean, if I wanted to, I could have a discussion over what certain scholars or leaders think are the modern criteria of knowing that one is a prophet. I could bring in books like Thomas W. Gillespie's, The First Theologians: A Study in Early Christian Prophecy," or Randy Clark & Mary Healy's, "The Spritual Gifts Handbook," but if I did that then I'm not sure I'd hear from individuals themselves who think they're prophetic "know" that they "know" from God.

So, what epistemological criteria do you think are involved in a modern Christian knowing that he or she is indeed a prophet of God?

This is kinda my point. One can't "know" in the way you are asking if they have never done it, can they?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

This is kinda my point. One can't "know" in the way you are asking if they have never done it, can they?

Well, wouldn't there be Scriptural criteria in addition to those provided by personal experience? And, when you speak of personal experience, what kinds of experience are we specifically talking about?

 

[topher694]

Well, wouldn't there be Scriptural criteria in addition to those provided by personal experience? And, when you speak of personal experience, what kinds of experience are we specifically talking about?

There is plenty of Scriptural criteria. By personal experience I mean actually prophesying.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

There is plenty of Scriptural criteria. By personal experience I mean actually prophesying.

ok. So by this line of reasoning, are you're indicating that if we are indeed a true prophet of God we'll only "know" this fact after we've prophesied but not before?

Or do you mean something else?