Episcopalian?

Today at 02:31 PM Job_38 said this in Post #39 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=685426#post685426)

Here are the doctrines my church follows however:

http://www.ebible.org/bible/ASV/

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Could you give us the link from that page that gives your doctrines? I couldn't find it.

Today at 06:56 PM Job_38 said this in Post #42 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=685937#post685937)

No, you did.

Main Entry: doc·trine
Pronunciation: 'däk-tr&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French, from Latin doctrina, from doctor
Date: 14th century
1 archaic : TEACHING, INSTRUCTION
2 a : something that is taught b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : DOGMA c : a principle of law established through past decisions d : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations

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Huh? All I saw at that site was books of the Bible.

Doctrines are based on interpretation, and there were no interpretations there. It only gave primary sources.

It's amazing how many total disagreements you can find among people who insist that they are only repeating what God said, not interpreting it at all.

Today at 07:30 PM Job_38 said this in Post #45 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=686012#post686012)

Its funny, how you guys are exactly what you "fight against"

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What is it that we "fight against"? I'd like to know what you are claiming we are.

y'all can't we learn about one another's faith w/o prescuting each other in the process?

Today at 07:50 PM Job_38 said this in Post #48 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=686059#post686059)

Say "hypocryte" out loud.

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Why are you calling me a hypocrite?

Today at 10:30 PM Job_38 said this in Post #51 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=686386#post686386)

You accuse me of "Bashing" another faith, and then you attempt to.

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First, show me where I accused you of bashing another faith.
Second, show me where I attempted to bash another faith.

I think the original post came across (perhaps unintentionally) as implying that the Episcopalians were presumptively discredited, and needed to have some kind of special support shown before we'd accord them the respect we'd normally accord any other Christian group.

Today at 10:41 PM seebs said this in Post #53 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=686410#post686410)

I think the original post came across (perhaps unintentionally) as implying that the Episcopalians were presumptively discredited, and needed to have some kind of special support shown before we'd accord them the respect we'd normally accord any other Christian group.

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Yes, that was my feeling as well. Perhaps it was unintentional. If it was, and if I have appeared overbearing, I apologize.

My apologies for having been away for a few days.  It's been a pretty wild period.

I'd be happy to share with y'all what I think are the good things about the Episcopal church, and, maybe even some of the things that I don't like about it. 

I see that most of our catechism has already been posted, which is cool, but I don't think it really captures who we are.  There's so much to say that I hardly know where to start, so some specific kinds of questions might help.  (I have another hellish week coming up, so I can't promise to answer them all within a day, though.)

One question I recall was about our relationship to Roman Catholicism.  We are similar in a lot of ways to the RC church, but different in some meaningful ways, too.  We have the same orders of ministers (laity, bishops, priests, and deacons) and the same seven sacraments.  Our Eucharistic theology is pretty much the same, but our ecclesiologies are very different.

I like to say (and I hope I'm not mis-stating things) that the biggest difference between our two denominations is that in the RC church power begins with one person and "trickles down" while in the Episcopal church, power begins with the laity and is gradually conferred to the leadership.  If you want to be a priest, a bishop can't just decide to do it, two different committees with lots of lay people on them have to approve of it.  If you're elected a bishop, it isn't a choice made by the Pope, but you are elected by the lay people and the clergy of the diocese that you may serve.  Because our church had to re-organize itself after the American Revolution (we were all Anglicans before, but they were pretty angry at us!) we became much more democratic, in keeping with the spirit of this country.

While I don't have too much confidence in most political processes, personally, I still find that this way of starting with the laity usually means we're a lot more responsive to the work of the Spirit than a "top-down" kind of power structure.

On the down side of all this is the "clericalism" that still afflicts us.  It's worse in some parts of the country, and in some parishes, but for the most part, people still think of clergy as "higher" callings than other callings.  I think that's horribly wrong, and the whole "Father this" and "Mother that" (yes, we ordain women as priests) is a big mistake.  Ordination, in my opinion, specializes, narrows a person's ministry, doesn't make it higher.  Just different.  We all have gifts for ministry.  Setting clergy up as higher than others is a recipe for stagnation.

Well, there are a couple of things to begin with.  I'm open to other questions, and I'll get to 'em as fast as I can!

 

Jeff K

Welcome back Jeff and ty for setting the record straight!

Today at 04:23 AM jeffkrantz said this in Post #55 


On the down side of all this is the "clericalism" that still afflicts us.  It's worse in some parts of the country, and in some parishes, but for the most part, people still think of clergy as "higher" callings than other callings.  I think that's horribly wrong, and the whole "Father this" and "Mother that" (yes, we ordain women as priests) is a big mistake.  Ordination, in my opinion, specializes, narrows a person's ministry, doesn't make it higher.  Just different.  We all have gifts for ministry.  Setting clergy up as higher than others is a recipe for stagnation. 



Jeff K

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Hi Jeff, You came along at the perfect time I found this part of your post interesting. I'm a Presbyterain so we too start with laity as far as making decisions. I only want to disagree on a minor point here Jeff. I feel the clergy should be at a higher level..and the reason for that is education. Our clergy, Presbyterain AND EP spend years in seminary. I would rather have that then Jimbob with six months of training and bingo his a pastor..no no no. We look to our clergy for help in scripture interpetation and doctrine. In other words, the uneducated breeds intolerance and BIG misconceptions about scripture and doctrine in the mainline sects.

I don't believe ordination limits ones ministry at all. It fulfills that persons calling and is supposed to be entered into with respect and a place of honor. We all have gifts we bring to our church that also holds honor but someones got to be incharge that knows what they are talking about.  It's funny because my church feels the same way you do..and this is a point I disagree with. Hmm I either need to convert to Catholicism or find a local EP church

Thanks Jeff for your post. I may check out that website posted by Ann on here.

Peace,

Janine

I think the original post came across (perhaps unintentionally) as implying that the Episcopalians were presumptively discredited,

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Yes it did kind of sound like that but I don't think Job meant it to be that way.

I'm not trying to start an argument, and I apologize if I missed it in the earlier postings, but what is the Episcopalian view of Mary? Do you consider her a deity like Catholics do, or do you simply recognize her as Godly woman who was obedient?