Epilepsy & Demon Possession

I have no doubt that there is a difference between Epileptic seizures and demon possession... I also have no doubt that the person I mentioned earlier was possessed... and does not actually have epilepsy.

Mista said:

The woman who replied to my prayer request also insinuated that my daughter is afflicted with epilepsy because of some great sin her parents/grandparents/great-grandparents committed. This I cannot believe...that God would curse an innocent child with epilepsy because of the sins of her ancestors. I did do a bit of research and found this scripture: John 9:1 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" 3"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. 4As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

I think this answers my own question..

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A friend of mine who had to have her eyes removed early in her childhood because of severe glaucoma tells me that she has had many total strangers approach her (from childhood on) to ask her who sinned: she, her parents, or her grandparents, along with a number of of other alarming questions, and they would often grab her by the upper arm in a hold which would be hard for a girl to break.
I'm sure you can imagine how she felt, minding her own business, just sitting on the front steps of the blind school, and then being grabbed like that. She said that she discovered that adults who went on to ask her if her eyesight had been taken by disease would let go of her and leave quickly if she answered "Yes; syphillis."
As an adult, she's had complete strangers lays hands on her in public places, as once happened when she was waiting in line to pay for her purchases at J. C. Penney, and pray for her sight to return, apparently not realising that her eyes are prosthetic.
She told me that the thought of her artificial eyes popping out onto the floor in J.C. Penny as her non-existant ones grew in was quite frightening and grotesque, but she felt even more horrified when imagining suddenly being able to see though artificial eyes. These people may have thought God wanted them to do that, but the only gifts she received were nightmares.

Having said that, I'll just add that I have epilepsy. When strangers tell me I'm demon possessed, I have the freedom to leave quickly because I can see, so that's what I do. Occasionally, I have had an urge to ask such people how taking my seizure medication could possibly drive out demons, but I would have to allow myself to be subjected to more verbal abuse to find out, so what's the point of that?

Mista, thank you for introducing this subject.

Mista said:

Hello All,

I am a Pentecostal (AG) and posted a Prayer Request to our prayer chain, in regard to my daughter who is an epileptic. An ordained minister of the John G. Lake Ministry, who is also on our chain, replied to me in this way.

"I'm sure you've heard this before . . . Jesus clearly defines epilepsy (in the new testament) as a demon spirit. ( Matthew 17) . We don't know why certain people are afflicted by this....often it's a generational thing....where some poor child has to pay for the sins of his /her ancestors. But the good news is demons have to flee at the name of Jesus."

Needless to say, I was absolutely shocked when I received this message! My daughter demon possessed?? So I did a bit of research, going back to the source, the Bible. While it is true that demons can inflict disease, the Bible clearly shows the difference between disease and being possessed by demons. Scripture distinguishes between ordinary cases of sickness, and other illnesses that are symptomatic of something else. Matt 4:24 states "So His fame spread throughout all Syria, and they brought to Him all the sick, those who were afflicted with various diseases and pains, demoniacs, epileptics, and paralytics, and He cured them." (NIV).

As for the other statement...about my daughter having to pay for the sins of her ancestors....well, I'm researching that right now!! Please help me out on this one...

God Bless,
Mista

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I can not make the assessment that epileptic can be the cause of only demons. I know that the Bible teaches that it is in a case of demonic activity taken place in a person. But it did not clearly say that in all cases of epileptic there is the cause of demons.

In my Asian culture, we often do believe that epileptic is only caused by demons. Modern science and medicine shows that it may not all be that case. That is why I know that I am not the one to tell you whether it is all demons only. However, I do know for sure that demons do cause such to happen.

As for the other statement...about my daughter having to pay for the sins of her ancestors....well, I'm researching that right now!! Please help me out on this one...

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I just want to encourage you on the fact that there is really no biblical support for that. If someone tells you that your daughter is have epileptic seizures because she is paying for the sins of her ancestors, then that is a heresy. And let me give you my points.

1.) First of all, the sin nature from our parents is passed unto us. That makes us sinners. Now there is only one person in this universe that can judge us for our sin. That is God. If demons are tormenting your daughter, then it is not judgment from God. It is just demons inflicting pain to your daughter. Because God only allow demons to do certain things to give Him the glory. God will never allow Himself to be stain with the littlest of evil there is. Why? He is holy! Pure! Sinless! That is why He despise sin.

2.) Now to say that you daughter is facing the punishment because of your ancestors, then it is very unbiblical. Because one thing is that everyone is judged accordingly to their own sin in the Day of Judgment in Revelation. "11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:11-15) Each one is to be judged by their sin.

3.) From my studies, I find testimonies and accounts that about most of the time demons will just attack a person or infest (biblically show be also be known as demonized) a person whenever they find an opening. That opening can be through sin. (Example is if a person is heavily drinking, then a demon of alcohol can enter the person in one of his heavy drinking time.) An opening can be through what we see or hear. (Such is like if you are frantically worrying and screaming to find your child, then when you find your child you still in that state of frantic that you still shout. That can cause your child to be so scared. And that can be an opening for a demon of fear to enter in your child. Another example is seeing porn. A demon of pornography can enter a person during those moments.) Those are just some examples of demons can enter in people.

And sometimes, in what I study is that demons can enter in people through family line. What I mean by this is that demons can be entered through your family from your great great great grandfather or something like that. That demon can enter through occultic practices and through openings from the above examples. (Of course those above are just some of the examples. There are other ways demons get into people through their sin.) I describe here is what demons enter through family line. And when those demon(s) are not delivered out of the family, they may continue to stay there. Then demons can jump from one person to the next in a family. (That is how shamans are called by the spirits to do shamanistic work. And one of the signs of the call is epilepic seizures.)

I hope this can help you. And find a minister who is well-equiped in deliverance ministry.

Just like Sandy, I too have epilepsy, or the politically correct term..."Siezure disorder". I don't have it because I sinned, or because my parents, grandparents or great grandparents sinned. I have it because when I was 8, a two ton truck moving 45 mph slammed into the side of our car, throwing my brother and I 40 feet from the point of impact, instantly killing everyone else in the car and leaving my brother bleeding to death because he went through the window first and left me in a coma for over a month. I was not expected to live. When they buried the rest of my family, they left an empty block on the headstone because they expected me to join them, but there were people praying hard for me all over. There was even a precious elderly lady from Kentucky who read about the accident, and sent cards of love and inspiration and prayer, every couple of days to the hospital where I was at. I survived, and the doctors could only use one word, MIRACULOUS. Yes, I have some brain damage deep in the cerebrum, thus my siezures, but it was by prayer that I am alive, and I'm sure the lord isn't going answer prayers to heal me physically but leave me "deamon posessed".
Let me take the whole purpose of sickness and infirmities one step further. Very simply, Gods purpose, Gods choosing, Gods glory, not satan's. Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 12:7-10..... "To keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me "MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR YOU FOR MY POWER IS MADE PERFECT IN WEAKNESS." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weakness, in insults, in hardships, in persecution, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."
It has been argued by theologeans for years over what that thorn was. Some have gone so far as to speculate......Epilepsy. Would you call St. Paul demon possessed during his travels through Corinth? Whatever his thorn was, it was not because of deamon posession, it was a reminder through satan, allowed by God that in our weakness, in our shortcomings, in our inabilities, God....The King of Kings, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the Giver and Taker of life has over come all thing, there is NOTHING that he cannot do. So although satan drags us down and tries to make us seem hopeless, (I can't, I can't I can't). Guess what, you're absolutely right, you can't, I can't, nobody can, but GOD CAN. Whether be it by divine intervention, a doctor, a teacher, why even a donkey, (if you remember Balaam). Oh man, I'm gettin filled with the Spirit now. I'm kind of a reserved, work with my hands, behind the seens person. Well the Lord has been speaking to me long and hard about getting into ministry and I kept using that excuse, it's not in me, thats not my talent, (gift), Oh man I have put such a limit on the Lord. WOW, am I getting hit right now with the Spirit. If you'll all excuse me, I gotta go pray.
God Bless....In HIS Service....Dan

Wow! Thanks for your testimony Satman/Dan!
This is just absolutely amazing! PRAISE GOD.

About Pauls Thorn in the flesh. I don't believe it was some kind of desease.
Gal 5:17 "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish."
And somewhere else Paul write this piece about not doing what he wants todo and doing what he don't want todo.

O well, Most people still believe he had some eye disease or something. Now read acts, this just doesn't really add up I think.
But if you don't agree with me don't argue with me since I can't really prove it since I only believe this

bump

ablikespaintball said:

well i could care less if anyone believes me, but it doesnt' do any harm to just try it does it???

EDIT: And i hope you took a look at my scripture and how it applies to healing also....look at my first post.

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how do you know she hasnt tried it? that's patronizing, you know. you should ask first, rather than assume that because someone is sick, they havent asked God for healing or rebuked any evil spirits that MAY be there.

Shannonkish said:

A few years ago.. someone I know (protecting her name and our relationship) was in her dorm room.. she began having epileptic seizures... however, they got worse and she would scream out obscentites against Jesus. We found that if we would sing hymns, she would become a little peaceful, but scream stop. This continues for weeks. One night, I witnessed this, and knew exactly what it was.... this wasn't a diease, she was definitely possessed.. however, because I attend an SBC school, they didn't want to hear anything of the sort... She went to doctor's and they called it epilepsy... she took LOTS of medicine for it.. none of which worked.. and still to this day takes medicine.. however, the "seizures" haven't really stopped or gotten better.

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i think that sometimes demons "hide" behind a legitimate illness, for various reason:

-to exacerbate it (make it worse)
-to make people doubt the validity of the disorder.
-so people will give him glory for doing something he didnt do.
-to cloud the issus and give people doubts about what they believe and cause confusion.

i am sure there are other potential benefits to the emeny of him hiding behind an illness but these are what immediately came to mind.

satman said:

Let me take the whole purpose of sickness and infirmities one step further. Very simply, Gods purpose, Gods choosing, Gods glory, not satan's. Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 12:7-10..... "To keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me "MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR YOU FOR MY POWER IS MADE PERFECT IN WEAKNESS." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weakness, in insults, in hardships, in persecution, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

It has been argued by theologeans for years over what that thorn was. Some have gone so far as to speculate......Epilepsy. Would you call St. Paul demon possessed during his travels through Corinth? Whatever his thorn was, it was not because of deamon posession, it was a reminder through satan, allowed by God that in our weakness, in our shortcomings, in our inabilities, God....The King of Kings, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the Giver and Taker of life has over come all thing, there is NOTHING that he cannot do. So although satan drags us down and tries to make us seem hopeless, (I can't, I can't I can't). Guess what, you're absolutely right, you can't, I can't, nobody can, but GOD CAN. Whether be it by divine intervention, a doctor, a teacher, why even a donkey, (if you remember Balaam). Oh man, I'm gettin filled with the Spirit now. I'm kind of a reserved, work with my hands, behind the seens person. Well the Lord has been speaking to me long and hard about getting into ministry and I kept using that excuse, it's not in me, thats not my talent, (gift), Oh man I have put such a limit on the Lord. WOW, am I getting hit right now with the Spirit. If you'll all excuse me, I gotta go pray.

God Bless....In HIS Service....Dan

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"Whatever his thorn was, it was not because of deamon posession,"

So God sent his son Jesus Christ to atone for our sins and take our sicknessness and diseases just to give them to us huh? Lets look at the verse in question and see if your theology fits up with it.

2 Cor. 12:7

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

[messenger] Greek: angelos (GSN-32), translated "angel" 179 times and
"messenger" 7 times. It is never translated "disease" or "physical infirmity" and never
means any such thing. The simple explanation of the thorn in the flesh is that an angel
of Satan, one of the spirit beings which fell with him, followed Paul and buffeted him
when he was tempted to become exalted. Paul lists in 2 Cor. 11:23-27 some of the
things that this angel caused him to go through to keep him humble. There is not a
disease in the whole list. Paul's thorn must be understood in the same sense as
Numbers 33:55; Ezekiel 28:24; Hosea 2:6 where the same Greek: skolops (GSN-
4647), thorn, is found in the Septuagint. Were those giants and enemies of Israel
diseases in their sides or the cause of their wars and other kinds of sufferings? Please.

Sometimes when someone on the forum is directly involved in the topic we talk about we tend to shy away. I will not. Sickness is not the glory of God. It's the healing that comes from it.

The favorite Scriptures that people use to persuade men that they are sick for the glory of God are John 9:1-3 and 11:4. It is argued that the blind man and Lazarus in these Scriptures were sick and afflicted for the glory of God and that it must have been the will of God for them to be this way or it would not have happened to them.

Naturally God cannot get glory out of any healing if no one is ever sick, but because God heals is no proof that it is God's will for the people to be sick so that He can heal them. If it were the will of God for people to be sick, then He never would have healed anyone to oppose His own will. God never would have sent Jesus to heal all the sick against the will of God if it were His will for them to be sick. The reason God healed was to prove to men that it was not His will for them to be sick. He never would have destroyed His own work in men. The glory God got out of all the cases of healing in Scripture was not in the sicknesses, but in the healings. If the blind man had remained blind, or if Lazarus had remained sick or dead, God would not have been glorified. The devil would have been glorified, for his work would have continued to be manifest in them. No person can glorify God and magnify His work until it is manifest in Him. This should stir every child of God to refuse such deception any longer-that of being sick for the glory of God.

It is the devil that causes the sickness and then he tries to make the sick one believe that God is responsible and that it is God's will for him to be sick. As long as the deceived one thinks he is glorifying God and that he is in accord with the will of God in being sick, let him never seek to get well by prayer, by doctors and medicines, or any other means. On the contrary, let him desire to become more sick in order to glorify God that much more and in order to get deeper in the will of God. The fact is that no one can conscientiously believe such a theory, but some think it convenient to accuse God of the work of Satan so as to excuse their unbelief and lack of fight against Satan.

Suppose a rich man in a community would promise to pay all hospital bills and buy new cars for all who got into a serious accident. Suppose there were a number of accidents; should he be accused of deliberately causing them just because he promised to help men out of their troubles? Should he be accused of causing them just to get some praise for helping his neighbors? It is true his goodness would be magnified by such acts of kindness, but this would not be the cause of the wrecks. He does not will such, and he would prevent them if at all possible. If he deliberately caused the wrecks so that he could get praise for helping those who were wrecked, all men would rise up and destroy him and reject such benevolence.

So it is with God, that men get into sin and sickness, or they are attacked by satanic powers and He helps men out of their troubles and thereby receives the glory due Hi -m for His goodness does not prove that He wills the affliction or that He is the cause of the trouble. It is simply the fact that god gets glory in spite of them, not because He is responsible for them. God gets no glory out of any sickness as long as the sick one remains that way. He only gets glory out of healing when He can get men to believe and be healed.

The Scriptures used by many people (here on CF and others) to prove Paul had a physical disease do not say one thing about bodily sickness. The word weak in 1 Cor. 2:3; 4:10 should be understood of humility and dependence upon God . The passage in 2 Cor. 10:10 states only what was reported about him, not that it was a true report. But if we are going to take the word weak in this passage to prove he had a disease let us make the same word mean the same thing in 2 Cor. 11:29 where be said "I am not weak" or "I am not sick," then the argument concerning the other passage will be of no effect to prove he bad a disease that made him weak. The words "affliction" and "chasten" in 2 Cor. 6:4, 9 do not refer to disease any more than the same words do in other Scriptures, as explained already in Points 2 and 3 above.

The last passages refers to that men use to prove Paul had sore eyes are Gal. 4:15 and 6:11, but neither of these passages say that he had the common oriental eye disease called ophthalmia, which made him almost blind. The first of these two passages could best be understood as a figure of affection for Paul. Just like one might say today, "I would give my right eye for that," or "you would give your right limb for me, you love me so." We would not have to believe that the speaker had a right eye or a leg full of disease. These are mere human figures of speech, expressing affection. Concerning Gal. 6:11, "Ye see how large a letter I have written with mine own hand." The Greek word for "letter" is gramma, meaning a writing, a letter, note, epistle, book, bill, or document, It could not possibly be that Paul was so blind that he had to write big letters in his words, for if he were as blind as this, he could not have written an epistle at all. It would not have been readable if he had written it. Galatians was a long epistle, longer than seven of Paul's epistles and as long as two others. In some ancient Manuscripts, Hebrews was attached to Galatians with this phrase, "Pros Hebrios," meaning to the Hebrews, and if this be the case these epistles together would make this writing of Paul longer than any of his other separate works. At any rate, we can forget the sore eye theory, as there is nothing to support it in Scripture.

If we will seek half as hard for an excuse to believe God as we do for an excuse to disbelieve Him we would get more of the benefits of the gospel. One of the greatest regrets of Heaven will be that when we get there and see how fully God had provided for our needs on Earth and how anxious He was to bless us with the abundance of everything, we will wish we had believed Him more in this life. Let us now wake up to the greatness of His promises and refuse to let any man or demon rob us of the full benefits we can have now - (Finis Dake)