Environmentalism

morningstar2651 · Jan 12, 2005

Onemonthman said:
I am really unconcerned with this planet. I don't go around trashing it and love the outdoors but this place is going to burn and be destroyed and re-built.

Edward Abbey is rolling in his grave.

cabbitgrrrl · Jan 12, 2005

HouseApe said:
I am a rabid, tree-hugging environmentalist.

cool

HouseApe said:
Humans are a part of nature. And I think humans can expand their territory up to the point where it threatens the existence of any other life form.

can and have

HouseApe said:
I am an environmentalist because I consider each life form to be a treasure of knowledge. Each is unique, has its own history, and ecological niche. I have always loved learning about different life forms, how they work, and how they interact with other life forms. To me, the extinction of a life form is like the loss of an artistic masterpiece. It is like the destruction of the Mona Lisa or the Taj Majal. It is theft, from me, mankind and future generations.

i agree, but its more the fact that they deserve a right to live to me

HouseApe said:
If there are other environmentalists on this board, why are you an environmentalist? For others, do you consider the world better off without all of these other life forms? For Christians, when God gave man dominion over His creation, do you think he wants us to treat His creation like a benevolent king, or a despotic murderer?

I think that the Goddess wants us to live in harmony with nature and the animals rather than destroy and ignore it. Cybele is within every living thing and the Earth itself, so to destroy the planet or the animals on it is going against her.

Aimee30 · Jan 12, 2005

I don't see anything wrong with being for the environment if Christian as long as it is not more important than God. I don't go for saving the cow from the burcher or not wearing leather ideas, but I do go for conservation. Use as little trees as possible, recycle what you can, keep the cancer-causing substances entering the air to a minimum. Some environmental causes are worthy efforts, as long as it isn't taken to an extreme. I am all for trying to get a gasoline substitute for cars--for one thing we wouldn't have to worry about depleting oil supplies and another it would good to find a substitute less harmful to the air.
God made creation and he made it beautiful. Why do humans want to spoil his perfect work so much anyway?

HouseApe · Jan 13, 2005

Onemonthman said:
I am really unconcerned with this planet. I don't go around trashing it and love the outdoors but this place is going to burn and be destroyed and re-built.

How sad. The problem is, even if this were true (and it's not), it might be 100,000 years before that happens. In the meantime, this kind of Christian attitude will cause your great grandchildren to live with so much less than we have today. But it won't be just yours, it will be everyones. You sir, with this attitude, commit the sin of theft. And you will answer to God for this theft and for your disregard for His creation.

Our offspring for many generations will curse those who live today with this attitude. And Christianity will be remembered as the cause of much loss and suffering.

cabbitgrrrl · Jan 13, 2005

Aimee30 said:
I don't see anything wrong with being for the environment if Christian as long as it is not more important than God.

I see the divine and the environment as equally important, for they are actually one in the same.

Aimee30 said:
I don't go for saving the cow from the burcher or not wearing leather ideas, but I do go for conservation. Use as little trees as possible, recycle what you can, keep the cancer-causing substances entering the air to a minimum. Some environmental causes are worthy efforts, as long as it isn't taken to an extreme.

What do you mean to an extreme?

Aimee30 said:
God made creation and he made it beautiful. Why do humans want to spoil his perfect work so much anyway?

most people dont actually want to spoil it, rather they dont realize or care that they are spoiling it

just an opinion, but perhaps you should be a little more extreme

cabbitgrrrl · Jan 13, 2005

HouseApe said:
Our offspring for many generations will curse those who live today with this attitude. And Christianity will be remembered as the cause of much loss and suffering.

I think that most people will deny that Christianity caused it, and eventually it won't be remembered by most who exactly caused it. History has shown this time and time again. Which is unfortunate because it appears that many have not learned of those mistakes.

Hopefully the later generations will grow up. Humanity has had thousands of years to learn from its mistakes but it doesn't seem to have gotten anywhere with exceptions of small groups.

Kal'thzar · Jan 13, 2005

Thank you houseape and phred for answering my question, i was just curious to how strong a stance you would take, thankfully you seem to be in the commen sense area of the spectrum.

HouseApe · Jan 13, 2005

cabbitgrrrl said:
I think that most people will deny that Christianity caused it, and eventually it won't be remembered by most who exactly caused it. History has shown this time and time again. Which is unfortunate because it appears that many have not learned of those mistakes.

Hopefully the later generations will grow up. Humanity has had thousands of years to learn from its mistakes but it doesn't seem to have gotten anywhere with exceptions of small groups.

Well, sometime when I get around to it I'm gonna create a real pretty web page on just this subject. That way when some kids are researching the extinct bald eagle on the net, my page will pop up explaining how Christians of the day thought Jesus was coming any minute and so it really didn't matter if they killed off everything. And frankly, most folks were too busy shopping to care.

Aimee30 · Jan 13, 2005

cabbitgrrrl said:
I think that most people will deny that Christianity caused it, and eventually it won't be remembered by most who exactly caused it. History has shown this time and time again. Which is unfortunate because it appears that many have not learned of those mistakes.

Hopefully the later generations will grow up. Humanity has had thousands of years to learn from its mistakes but it doesn't seem to have gotten anywhere with exceptions of small groups.

Don't blame it on Christianity--blame it on the people who follow it and have no clue about sensible topics such as fellow human beings and the environment. Look at history and find the ways people have subverted the ideas of Christianity to fit their own ideals i.e slavery, killing off Native Americans as though they were vermin, using it tio go out and start wars--you name it charalatans have misused the good book and have ignored the teaching of loving your neighbor as yourself. Your neighbor is anyone who lives on this planet.
While I'm on the topic of neighbors, the environment does matter to them. Environmentally speaking, your neighbor won't much appreciate getting lung or any other cancers resulting from your pollution. I don't know about you, but sending home your neighbor early to be with Jesus because nothing matters because he's coming again--well just isn't being a faithful steward of God's creation as is charged to us in Genesis.

blueskyboris · Jan 13, 2005

hiccup

Hydra009 · Jan 13, 2005

HouseApe said:
Humans are a part of nature. And I think humans can expand their territory up to the point where it threatens the existence of any other life form. At that point, I believe humans should be content to maintain the biological status quo.

The problem is that the ecological impact of our high-tech lifestyles is immense. But you're right, we should threaten the existence of other species. We should focus on sustainable living.

I am an environmentalist because I consider each life form to be a treasure of knowledge. Each is unique, has its own history, and ecological niche. I have always loved learning about different life forms, how they work, and how they interact with other life forms. To me, the extinction of a life form is like the loss of an artistic masterpiece. It is like the destruction of the Mona Lisa or the Taj Majal. It is theft, from me, mankind and future generations.

I agree.

With the rapid population growth of humans, I expect that at some point in the not too distant future, the only life that will remain will be humans and those that are either necessary for human existence as food or live in environments that humans cannot fully exploit, like the deep ocean bottoms.

Yeah. We have a population crisis on our hands.

If there are other environmentalists on this board, why are you an environmentalist?

I'm an environmentalist, but I'm kind of stand-offish about the term. I'm not exactly someone who would be described as a tree-hugger, but I recognize the need to protect our environment - because it's our home, and because we depend so utterly on it for survival. I see my environmentalism as more of the common sense, don't set fire to your own house approach.

For example: I never wake up in the morning and say, "You know what I could go for? More smog. Yeah, I want to feel like I'm breathing through a straw, just for the heck of it. I'd also like nuclear waste to be dumped in the ocean. That sounds responsible. Oh, and I'd like raw sewage to flood the neighborhood because of improper waste treatment."

One thing I enjoyed a lot was my family's garden. We had lettuce, tomatos, green and red peppers, even a few jalapeno plants. It was a lot better than grocery store greens.

kedaman · Jan 14, 2005

Colossians 3

Rules for Holy Living

1Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

HouseApe · Jan 14, 2005

kedaman said:
Colossians 3

Rules for Holy Living

1Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

The problem kedaman, is that it is not all about you. It's about other people who live today, all future generations, and all the rest of life in God's creation.

kedaman · Jan 14, 2005

Its all about you. There are no other people who live today, there is no future generation, and there is no rest of God's creation, your path from such a future was derailed long ago. What you see is death in slow motion, the last moment, the last fireworks and the last dance of fading images representing a dying creation to you. How can this be happening to you?

cabbitgrrrl · Jan 14, 2005

kedaman said:
Its all about you. There are no other people who live today, there is no future generation, and there is no rest of God's creation, your path from such a future was derailed long ago. What you see is death in slow motion, the last moment, the last fireworks and the last dance of fading images representing a dying creation to you. How can this be happening to you?

So in otherwords, you think that god doesnt care about his creations and doesnt think you should either? That makes a whole lot of sense.

People have talked about the end of times since the beginning of times, and there has been thousands of years of human history going by in the process. I seriously doubt that it is going to end anytime soon unless careless people such as yourself destroy it.

kedaman · Jan 14, 2005

cabbitgrrrl said:
So in otherwords, you think that god doesnt care about his creations and doesnt think you should either? That makes a whole lot of sense.

People have talked about the end of times since the beginning of times, and there has been thousands of years of human history going by in the process. I seriously doubt that it is going to end anytime soon unless careless people such as yourself destroy it.

I don't carry a sword for nothing

Nemo0213 · Jan 14, 2005

HouseApe said:
Well, sometime when I get around to it I'm gonna create a real pretty web page on just this subject. That way when some kids are researching the extinct bald eagle on the net, my page will pop up explaining how Christians of the day thought Jesus was coming any minute and so it really didn't matter if they killed off everything. And frankly, most folks were too busy shopping to care.

It seems to me that you have confused christianity with consumerism. I am called to live in this world but not be of the world. Which means participating in in the "most folks were too busy shopping to care" attitude is not a very true christian attitude. It belongs with those who seek comfort above all else. I think environmentalism and anti-consumerism go hand in hand. People are taught from a young age that buying new houses outside of town while perfectly good buildings in say an old industrial park go vacant is pretty irresponsible. Because they tear up perfectly good farm land, swamps, and forrests to have these beautiful homes that they can't atke with them anyways. If we can reverse the flow of big corporations that only care about their bottom line then that in turn would be a big step towards protecting the environment.

cabbitgrrrl · Jan 14, 2005

Nemo0213 said:
It seems to me that you have confused christianity with consumerism. I am called to live in this world but not be of the world. Which means participating in in the "most folks were too busy shopping to care" attitude is not a very true christian attitude. It belongs with those who seek comfort above all else. I think environmentalism and anti-consumerism go hand in hand. People are taught from a young age that buying new houses outside of town while perfectly good buildings in say an old industrial park go vacant is pretty irresponsible. Because they tear up perfectly good farm land, swamps, and forrests to have these beautiful homes that they can't atke with them anyways. If we can reverse the flow of big corporations that only care about their bottom line then that in turn would be a big step towards protecting the environment.

I think what he means is that christianity sets the mood for several christians to not care about the environment since the afterlife is more important than life and the world they live in. He doesn't mean that christianity is directly out to destroy the world, simply that many christians don't care. This can be seen in a few of the posts on this thread if you would look through them.

Hooch · Jan 14, 2005

We will all be saved from this retreched planet when the rapture occurs.

In the meantime- what matters it that we destroy a planet that is doomed?

Aimee30 · Jan 14, 2005

Oh good grief, love your neighbor as yourself! That's in the Bible too. You can't love your neighbor as yourself if you don't care what happens to them. If you cause someone to die by your carelessness you are going against this command of Jesus. And Jesus is more authoritative than Paul is any day.

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