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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Physical & Life Sciences
Creation & Evolution
Entropy and How can something come from nothing? And some evolution......
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<blockquote data-quote="Frumious Bandersnatch" data-source="post: 739033" data-attributes="member: 7449"><p>This one is the only one which explicitly says that a closed system can't exchange energy. </p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>I can't open the link but where does it say that closed systems can't transfer energy? </p><p></p><p> </p><p>You needed to read on in this one </p><p> </p><p>They are treating the earth as a closed system that can transfer energy but not mass by ignoring the small amount of mass that is transferred. </p><p></p><p> </p><p>You needed to read this one further as well: </p><p> </p><p></p><p>You can see that they are also defining closed systems as ones that can transfer heat to their surroundings.&nbsp; They also say that similar problems can be found in most standard textbooks.&nbsp; I suspect the textbooks in for the courses you pointed to use the standard definition of open, closed and isolated but I could be wrong as I have not read them but I have read several texts in this area and they all define systems as open(mass and energy), closed(energy only)&nbsp;and isolated.&nbsp; </p><p></p><p>So yes, occasionally closed systems are said to not transfer energy or mass which means that they are isolated. I think I ackowledged that in a earlier post.&nbsp; However, I maintain that the standard nomenclature of chemical thermodynamics refers to closed systems as those that transfer energy but not mass. All the heat engine analysis used to define and teach basic thermodynamics is done using such systems(Carnot cycles).&nbsp; I further maintain that if you really mean isolated system when you say closed system you must be careful to specify, as the first&nbsp;website you point to does, that the system does not transfer energy. However, if you insist on writing closed(isolated) when you just mean isolated go right ahead&nbsp;we&nbsp;should&nbsp;certainly all know what you mean by now.&nbsp; </p><p></p><p>The Frumious Bandersnatch</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Frumious Bandersnatch, post: 739033, member: 7449"] This one is the only one which explicitly says that a closed system can't exchange energy. I can't open the link but where does it say that closed systems can't transfer energy? You needed to read on in this one They are treating the earth as a closed system that can transfer energy but not mass by ignoring the small amount of mass that is transferred. You needed to read this one further as well: You can see that they are also defining closed systems as ones that can transfer heat to their surroundings. They also say that similar problems can be found in most standard textbooks. I suspect the textbooks in for the courses you pointed to use the standard definition of open, closed and isolated but I could be wrong as I have not read them but I have read several texts in this area and they all define systems as open(mass and energy), closed(energy only) and isolated. So yes, occasionally closed systems are said to not transfer energy or mass which means that they are isolated. I think I ackowledged that in a earlier post. However, I maintain that the standard nomenclature of chemical thermodynamics refers to closed systems as those that transfer energy but not mass. All the heat engine analysis used to define and teach basic thermodynamics is done using such systems(Carnot cycles). I further maintain that if you really mean isolated system when you say closed system you must be careful to specify, as the first website you point to does, that the system does not transfer energy. However, if you insist on writing closed(isolated) when you just mean isolated go right ahead we should certainly all know what you mean by now. The Frumious Bandersnatch [/QUOTE]
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