Enoch: Apocalypse of Weeks

But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain. (Gal 4:9-11)

Blade said:

"simply dismiss the Book of Enoch as it is not part of the canon of Scripture. Yet, it is quoted. "

Lets see no the book of Enoch was never quoted. What Jude by the sweet sweet holy Spirit said was "But Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, also prophesied about these men, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,". There are a few really strong reasons why Enoch was not put in the Canon. So when we read about who wrote it "unknown".

Why is it so hard for a God that once said to Sarah "what is to hard for the lord?" That He made sure what we have today is what He wanted and not a bunch of men made the choice?

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Timtofly said:

So Enoch never said that?

Do you think you could at least quote a verse from this alleged writing of Enoch that says those words. Was Enoch not the 7th generation from Adam? You can read that in Genesis 5.

The point made is that whoever wrote this book of Enoch after the Babylonian captivity had some source of information they used. They did not receive Holy Spirit revelation. If not they just made it all up. So Jude did not have to quote that particular book, as information would have already been in circulation before that book was written. Both Jude and that unknown author were quoting the same source. Jude was not necessarily quoting the book of Enoch.

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From the link to the work of J. T. Milik, which was posted in my previous post, here is a section from one of the fragments which begins with the greater portion of the verse from Sefer Henok which is quoted in the epistle of Yhudah.

A description of the fragment with dating, (Pg 178).



The Aramaic text, (Pgs 184-185).



The reading of the Aramaic text supplied by J. T. Milik, (Pg 185).
(Highlighting is mine).




This Qumran DSS fragment is from a copy of Sefer Henok estimated to be from the first century BC, (Herodian era). The epistle of Yhudah quote is legitimate and it is from Sefer Henok. Moreover Yhudah does not just say that he is quoting a writing but actually states that these are the very words of Henok the Prophet: that's saying quite a bit more than what people generally tend to realize on a surface level reading.

EclipseEventSigns said:

After reading the work by Milik, you discover that he is a typical unbelieving liberal scholar. These type of people can not be trusted in what they claim.

Sure everyone can have their own personal opinion. But every single one that I've examined has fatal flaws and does not stand up to scrutiny. Only my work meets all known facts, theology and the historical record. That's why I challenge anyone to prove me wrong.

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I seriously doubt that your work "meets all known facts, theology and the historical record". More likely your work meets all the criteria that you have hand-picked so as to uphold your own privately held beliefs on a given topic. If it were not so then you would not have rejected the very little that has already been said here without even blinking a eye. You have already shown that you do not give any other possibility the time of day if it in any way disagrees with your paradigm. You have not shown yourself to be an honest researcher, imo, and by that I mean honest with yourself.

EclipseEventSigns said:

You can doubt all you want. Doesn't change the facts whatsoever. I've stated exactly why I reject your so-called evidence. It's seems you are the the one that doesn't want to accept facts. Just because someone has an alternate opinion, does not make it actually true and does not mean I have to accept it. I've been able to show the passage is internally consistent and I have not injected any personal bias whatsoever. You are the one who believes it has to do with 70 AD without any evidence in the passage at all - that's from your privately held belief.

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No, it's actually from my understanding of the entire chronology of the world, based on scripture and historical evidence: none of which you have actually engaged or even attempted to discuss. Do you suppose I just pulled the second year of Darius 2 out of thin air? It doesn't merely align with the ten weeks of Henok but also with Daniel, and Ezra, and I believe even Yosephus also agrees, (if I remember correctly, it's been a while, but trust me: I'll check again to make sure before I double down on the historical information from Yosephus). But seeing that you apparently believe some variant of a seven thousand year plan of Elohim, I am pretty sure you will not accept anything that does not align with the modern Hebrew Masoretic text genealogies despite what is more often quoted by the Apostolic authors, (the LXX).

EclipseEventSigns said:

Ya, I save you any further bother. The LXX is Greek garbage - totally corrupted. As the Jews and Christians of the 2nd century acknowledge. They hated it so much they made other translations to use instead. So, no. the genealogy information in the LXX is absolutely useless. And btw, the New Testament writers did NOT quote from the LXX. They wrote in Aramaic and were quoting the Targums in use in all synagogues since hardly anyone spoke Hebrew any more - as Josephus states very clearly in his work. Look it up. I'll wait.....

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“But let no one blame me for writing down everything of this nature, as I find it in our ancient books; for as to that matter, I have plainly assured those that think me defective in any such point, or complain of my management, and have told them, in the beginning of this history, that I intended to do no more than translate the Hebrew books into the Greek language, and promised them to explain those facts, without adding anything to them of my own, or taking anything away from them.” (Josephus, Antiquities 10:218)

“I suppose that, by my books of the Antiquities of the Jews, most excellent Epaphroditus, I have made it evident to those who peruse them, that our Jewish nation is of very great antiquity, and had a distinct subsistence of its own originally; as also I have therein declared how we came to inhabit this country wherein we now live. Those Antiquities contain the history of five thousand years, and are taken out of our sacred books; but are translated by me into the Greek tongue.” (Josephus, Against Apion 1.1)

Is this not precisely what I have already said about Yosephus? Why did you not investigate what was said? Yosephus clearly states that the Hebrew scriptures contained a history of five thousand years in his day and plainly states that he is translating from the Hebrew text of his day.

Ant., Bk.1, Ch. 3, 3-4
3. This calamity happened in the six hundredth year of Noah's government, [age,] in the second month, (14) called by the Macedonians Dius, but by the Hebrews Marchesuan: for so did they order their year in Egypt. But Moses appointed that · Nisan, which is the same with Xanthicus, should be the first month for their festivals, because he brought them out of Egypt in that month: so that this month began the year as to all the solemnities they observed to the honor of God, although he preserved the original order of the months as to selling and buying, and other ordinary affairs. Now he says that this flood began on the twenty-seventh [seventeenth] day of the forementioned month; and this was two thousand six hundred and fifty-six [one thousand six hundred and fifty-six] years from Adam, the first man; and the time is written down in our sacred books, those who then lived having noted down, (15) with great accuracy, both the births and deaths of illustrious men.
4. For indeed Seth was born when Adam was in his two hundred and thirtieth year, who lived nine hundred and thirty years. Seth begat Enos in his two hundred and fifth year; who, when he had lived nine hundred and twelve years, delivered the government to Cainan his son, whom he had in his hundred and ninetieth year. He lived nine hundred and five years. Cainan, when he had lived nine hundred and ten years, had his son Malaleel, who was born in his hundred and seventieth year. This Malaleel, having lived eight hundred and ninety-five years, died, leaving his son Jared, whom he begat when he was in his hundred and sixty-fifth year. He lived nine hundred and sixty-two years; and then his son Enoch succeeded him, who was born when his father was one hundred and sixty-two years old. Now he, when he had lived three hundred and sixty-five years, departed and went to God; whence it is that they have not written down his death. Now Mathusela, the son of Enoch, who was born to him when he was one hundred and sixty-five years old, had Lamech for his son when he was one hundred and eighty-seven years of age; to whom he delivered the government, when he had retained it nine hundred and sixty-nine years. Now Lamech, when he had governed seven hundred and seventy-seven years, appointed Noah, his son, to be ruler of the people, who was born to Lamech when he was one hundred and eighty-two years old, and retained the government nine hundred and fifty years. These years collected together make up the sum before set down. But let no one inquire into the deaths of these men; for they extended their lives along together with their children and grandchildren; but let him have regard to their births only.

.......“Only my work meets all known facts, theology and the historical record. That's why I challenge anyone to prove me wrong.“.......

Sorry for your luck: but thanks for confirming most of what I have said here.

EclipseEventSigns said:

Ya, I save you any further bother. The LXX is Greek garbage - totally corrupted. As the Jews and Christians of the 2nd century acknowledge. They hated it so much they made other translations to use instead. So, no. the genealogy information in the LXX is absolutely useless. And btw, the New Testament writers did NOT quote from the LXX. They wrote in Aramaic and were quoting the Targums in use in all synagogues since hardly anyone spoke Hebrew any more - as Josephus states very clearly in his work. Look it up. I'll wait.....

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Furthermore this tells me that you really have no clue what "Jewish centric" even means when you claim that Sefer Henok is not "Jewish centric". Your idea of what it means to be Jewish is really nothing more than a construct in your mind which you have built up around a stereotype. The Hessenim at Qumran did not believe the same way that the Perushim at Yershalem believed: they did not have the same mindset, in fact, and this is also according to Yosephus in two different places, there were at least four main sects in first century Yisrael.

Moreover your commentary here tells me that you haven't done a very thorough investigation of the Apostolic writings or you wouldn't be making such claims. The fact of the matter is that the modern Masoretic Hebrew text did not exist in the first century, and in fact it is only at this point about a thousand years old: this is historical fact, and another claim you make for yourself as seemingly to be upholding which is proven untrue. It is the modern Masoretic Hebrew text that has been corrupted: and it has been corrupted by Meshiah-rejecting Jews whose Pharisaic viewpoints you apparently prefer. My forefathers are those who actually rendered the Hebrew text they had available to them into the Greek Septuagint, and they were not only Yhudim but Kohanim, (Priests), and they did their work well before the Advent of Meshiah, so they had no bias when it comes to Messianic passages like the later Masoretes did indeed hold.

The following highlighted quote may only be found in the LXX:

Hebrews 1:6 KJV
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

The highlighted portion in the above is a quote from Deuteronomy 32:43a, in the OG LXX, but is no longer found in the modern Masoretic Hebrew text.

The following passage from the Luke genealogy contains the name Cainan, and this is the second Cainan often referred to as Cainan 2 because it is the Cainan from Genesis 11:12-13, the son of Arphaxad. This Cainan appears only in the LXX, and not only once but twice, Genesis 10:24 and Genesis 11:12-13. In both places this record has been expunged from the modern Masoretic Hebrew text, showing that this alteration was likely deliberate and intentional, and yet Luke agrees with the LXX version.

Luke 3:36-38 KJV
36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,
37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Genesis 10:24 LXX (Brenton English Translation)
24 And Arphaxad begot Cainan, and Cainan begot Sala. And Sala begot Heber.

Genesis 11:12-13 LXX (Brenton English Translation)
12 And Arphaxad lived a hundred and thirty-five years, and begot Cainan.
13 And Arphaxad lived after he had begotten Cainan, four hundred years, and begot sons and daughters, and died. And Cainan lived a hundred and thirty years and begot Sala; and Canaan lived after he had begotten Sala, three hundred and thirty years, and begot sons and daughters, and died.

If we therefore count the names from Henok to the Meshiah, in the Luke genealogy, how many generations are there from Henok to Meshiah? The answer is seventy generations.

Enoch 10:11-12 (R. H. Charles)
11. And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjâzâ and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. 12. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated.

The timing of the Advent of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts is a perfect fit: this is why suddenly we see demonic activity so dramatically increased compared to previous times and epochs in the scripture.

Again:

70*70 = Seventy Generations = Seventy Seventies = 4,900

Psalms 90:10 (A Psalm of Mosheh)
10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; [seventy] and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

EclipseEventSigns said:

The amount of quoted text does not equate to the amount of correctness. You misunderstand that I'm interested in your arguments. I don't even know what you are trying to prove. Good day.

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Good day to you too. Nice chatting.

EclipseEventSigns said:

Only my work meets all known facts, theology and the historical record. That's why I challenge anyone to prove me wrong

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Ya know, I've made a similar challenge. I've challenged anyone to prove that I'm not the rightful Czar of All the Russias, and so far none has even come close.

EclipseEventSigns said:

That's fine. Those who appreciate truth and accuracy in research and have open minds have been blessed with the information I share.

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Could be. Some people make a hobby of recording eccentric ideas.

EclipseEventSigns said:

My video for Part I is available.

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"7000 Years of Human History"....

Just as expected. D.O.A.