Enoch and Elijah

Mountain_Girl406 · Nov 1, 2015

Here's my perspective, in case it isn't clear. In some ways I don't get the perspective of faith in God. I have doubted the existence of God for all my adult life and then some. I am still looking, that's why I attend Mass, pray, read the Bible, and come here...I'm not ready to give up. People tell me that faith, though, is a gift from the Holy Spirit, not something I can get on my own...and that if I am patient, He may choose to give it to me.
The question is, what do I do in the meanwhile? I do things as an individual and I participate in government and support the issues I care about. . . and therefore politicians who do as well.
Surprisingly I'm pro life, always have been...and the agnostic side of my brain actually makes the more compelling argument in my head for the pro life position. Whether or not there is a judgment and afterlife, I think leaving the planet and its people in better shape than I found them is a good goal to have.

benedictaoo said:
You should explain this to Mountain Girl then, your post read as, yes we should look to government, the bishops look to government. No, they implore governments everywhere to look to God. That's the only way we will have peace on this earth. I don't think she understands the perspective of faith in God, our government, all governments conversion to faith in God almighty is the only solution to the world's problems. I mean how obvious is it? We look to the world and we get this culture of death as our answer. When are we going to wake up and get it?

benedictaoo · Nov 1, 2015

MikeK said:
Actually, I think she gets it perfectly and that a few others are misunderstanding her, deliberately or otherwise.

I hope so. A unholy godless government will be nobody's saviour.

Mountain_Girl406 · Nov 1, 2015

benedictaoo said:
I hope so. A unholy godless government will be nobody's saviour.

I'm curious, do you vote? Is there a godly candidate?

benedictaoo · Nov 1, 2015

Mountain_Girl406 said:
Here's my perspective, in case it isn't clear. In some ways I don't get the perspective of faith in God. I have doubted the existence of God for all my adult life and then some. I am still looking, that's why I attend Mass, pray, read the Bible, and come here...I'm not ready to give up. People tell me that faith, though, is a gift from the Holy Spirit, not something I can get on my own...and that if I am patient, He may choose to give it to me.
The question is, what do I do in the meanwhile? I do things as an individual and I participate in government and support the issues I care about. . . and therefore politicians who do as well.
Surprisingly I'm pro life, always have been...and the agnostic side of my brain actually makes the more compelling argument in my head for the pro life position. Whether or not there is a judgment and afterlife, I think leaving the planet and its people in better shape than I found them is a good goal to have.

It's a gift but you have to cooperate with the grace God gives. The deal is, proof is the pudding, when has government ever given us world peace? The answer is in conversion to God. Apart from Him we can do nothing. Leave man to his own devices and we get what we have. A hot mess.

benedictaoo · Nov 1, 2015

Mountain_Girl406 said:
I'm curious, do you vote? Is there a godly candidate?

I have in past years but as of late, I can not in good conscious vote for anyone. They are really too far gone.

Mountain_Girl406 · Nov 1, 2015

benedictaoo said:
I have in past years but as of late, I can not in good conscious vote for anyone. They are really too far gone.

But if the Christians don't participate, leaving the governing decisions to non Christians, how does a Godly government get built?

benedictaoo · Nov 1, 2015

I agree. As Catholics we have an obligation to vote for the right person, problem is, who's right? The democrats are absolutly unvotable, we have to wait and see what Republican were left with.

LivingWordUnity · Nov 2, 2015

Here's what EWTN's Fr. John Echert said on the topic of Enoch and Elijah:

Elijah and Enoch
Question from Linda on 2/8/2003:
What did you mean when you said the 'manifestation of Elijah and Enoch hasn't happened yet?"

Answer by Fr. John Echert on 2/13/2003:
The words of our Lord about Elijah, as recorded by Saint Matthew and the two figures mentioned in the Apocalypse have long been interpreted by the early Fathers and medieval Theologians as meaning that Elijah and another figure--almost certainly Enoch--will be manifested on earth prior to the Second Coming of Christ in judgment and glory. This has been neglected and dismissed by many modern scholars, as is true of the bulk of what ancient tradition offers us. We know from the Old Testament that Elijah and Enoch did not die, yet neither did not go straight to heaven. It would appear that they remain alive and must themselves one day pass through death, after they have finished their final task of preaching Christ, to the Jews and Gentiles. As to where they are at present, God knows. The Fathers were inclined to believe it is Paradise, but not heaven itself. The Baptist was Elijah in spirit, but not bodily and in person. He initially fulfilled the promised return of Elijah to usher in the Messiah for the first coming; the real Elijah will fulfill the prophecy of Malachi when he precedes the final coming of the Messiah.

Thanks, Linda

Father Echert

(Source)

pdudgeon · Jun 4, 2016

LivingWordUnity said:
Jesus said to Peter, "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” - Matthew 16:19 (added emphasis)

So I believe that the Extraordinary Jubilee of Mercy will be recognized in Heaven. And, as I said, the mission of Enoch and Elijah, when they return, has an identical theme. So it seems to me like it would be perfect timing if they show up at some time during that year. But who knows? Perhaps God might choose a different time for them to return for reasons that only He knows.

the theme is identicle, but the audience is different.
another factor is that the remnent of the Jews must be present on this Earth in order to confirm that the time of the Gentiles walking on holy ground in the temple courts has stoped.

pdudgeon · Jun 4, 2016

LivingWordUnity said:
Yes. In his Bull of Indiction of the Extraordinary Jubilee of Mercy, Pope Francis says, "Our prayer also extends to the saints and blessed ones who made divine mercy their mission in life. I think especially of the great apostle of mercy, Saint Faustina Kowalska. May she, who was called to enter the depths of divine mercy, intercede for us and obtain for us the grace of living and walking always according to the mercy of God and with an unwavering trust in his love."

Interestingly enough Fr. Michael Gaitley has a new series out on this exact subject, called "Divine Mercy; the second greatest story ever told."
It can be viewed (in installments) on www.formed.org in the programs section. It is very much well worth the viewing!

here is the link to the DVD:
https://formed.org/courses/#/course/563251abdae5616c1fcd9a29
and if you click on the link to the viewing schedule on the same page ^^^
it will take you to the current episode being shown.

LivingWordUnity · Jun 4, 2016

pdudgeon said:
the theme is identicle, but the audience is different.
another factor is that the remnent of the Jews must be present on this Earth in order to confirm that the time of the Gentiles walking on holy ground in the temple courts has stoped.

I recommend the book Salvation Is from the Jews by Roy H. Schoeman. Here's an article with an excerpt from from the book that deals with the topic of the Jews and the Second Coming:

How might the attacks against the Jews, particularly those of the past century, relate to biblical prophecy about the role of the Jews in the Second Coming? For the fact that Christ " will come again in glory, to judge the living and the dead", in the words of the Nicene Creed, is a dogma of the Catholic faith. More

Source:
The Jews and the Second Coming | Roy H. Schoeman | An excerpt from Salvation Is From the Jews

pdudgeon · Jun 4, 2016

LivingWordUnity said:
I recommend the book Salvation Is from the Jews by Roy H. Schoeman. Here's an article with an excerpt from from the book that deals with the topic of the Jews and the Second Coming:

Source:
The Jews and the Second Coming | Roy H. Schoeman | An excerpt from Salvation Is From the Jews

good article!

LivingWordUnity · Jun 5, 2016

benedictaoo said:
It's a gift but you have to cooperate with the grace God gives. The deal is, proof is the pudding, when has government ever given us world peace? The answer is in conversion to God. Apart from Him we can do nothing. Leave man to his own devices and we get what we have. A hot mess.

Well said!

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