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Endogenous retroviruses

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w81minit said:
...proves that there is no Creator.
Nothing we do here, nothing at all proves there is no creator. The only thing that is proven is that it didn't happen as YEC creationists said it did. Some of the most intelligent people on this forum are christians and evolutionists at the same time - it's really not a big deal, most of the christians I know personally are also theistic evolutionists.
 
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Brahe

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JohnR7 said:
Typical Borg response. You have it exactly backwards. Man's theory of evolution far to often does not line up with the truth.
Are you going to back this up, John? Or will you leave this particular assertion undefended, as you have all the previous times you've told it?

You can take everything to the Bible, to see if it is true or not. If it does not line up with the Bible, then it is not true and sooner or later it will be falsified.
John, I responded to this post because this quote of is unbearably stupid, even for you. You cannot arbitrarly declare the Bible's factual statements to be true. You must test them against evidence. If the Bible and our observations contradict each other, it is the Bible that is wrong and not our observations. If germ theory does not line up with the Bible, then it is not germ theory that is inaccurate.
 
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JohnR7

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You have it exactly backwards. There can be no contradiction between the Bible and a observation anyways. The problem begins when people start to try and explain the observation or develop opinions about their observation.

The facts remain consistant, only we need the light of the Bible to understand them.
 
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Mistermystery

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JohnR7 said:
The new earth did not happen overnight. It began at the end of the last ice age. It took 7000 years to create.
Yeah so? What evidence do you got for that? There were 6 ice-ages before that one, so what makes this one "so freaking special"? And where does it say in the bible that this was done 7000 years ago?
 
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Loudmouth

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What words are those? The scientific terms that explain the signifigance of the evidence? Are you saying that studying science clouds the issue?

I guess I don't understand how genetic drift (a theory based on entropy and congecture) proves that there is no Creator.
Genetic drift has nothing whatsoever to do with entropy. The laws of thermodynamics pertain the the distribution of heat, not the background mutation rates of organisms. Genetic drift is the consequence of OBSERVED mutations over time. After a long period of time, these mutations can lead to breeding incompatibilities between species which allows for the isolation of gene pools. Mutations are caused by mistakes in the DNA replication system, insertion of viral genes, or chemical alterations caused by mutagens. This has nothing to do with the laws of thermodynamics.

Yes I understand that if a person whose DNA makeup allowed them to prove resistant to the Virus or to be able to 'fend-off' the attack that their offspring would carry a record of that ability. I agree.
You have it completely wrong. The virus is the one that messed up. An ERV is a record of a virus incorrectly inserting itslef into the host genome.

But that the DNA of chimps are similar to humans has been conceded long ago. I guess my question is to what extent is Canine DNA different that Human? 90% the same 20%?
I don't think the canine genome has been done. However, if you go to www.pubmed.com you can find all of the canine sequences done to date and do your own analysis. If you would like, I could pick out a few genes at random that have homologs in both chimps and apes, such as the cytochrome genes.


Remove the sarcasm and I agree. Even better yet, it is a theory that is testable unlike the ideas put forth by creationists. If you think we are designed by a common designer, can you show me the experiments I can run to test these ideas?
 
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Brahe

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JohnR7 said:
You have it exactly backwards. There can be no contradiction between the Bible and a observation anyways. The problem begins when people start to try and explain the observation or develop opinions about their observation.
Your arrogance is stunning, John. For a while there I thought that you simply could not be serious.

John, if you arbitrarly declare the Bible to be true, then why pick the Christian Bible? Why not some other holy book? Heck, why not the Lord of the Rings or Star Wars? Why should one book be elevated so that it's above falsification by evidence and not another? In fact, why should any book be beyond falsification at all? You've never gotten around to explaining that one, or even trying. Perhaps you should give us some insight.

Furthermore, your anti-science attitude is particularly hypocritical in light of the tools you're using to communicate. The problem begins when people try to explain the observations indeed.
 
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JohnR7

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Brahe said:
Your arrogance is stunning, John.
It has nothing to do with arrogance, it has everything to do with simply knowing the truth. As christians we can know the truth, because we have the Holy Spirit of Truth in us. If you do not know God, then you do not know the truth.

John 16:13a However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth;
 
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JohnR7

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Brahe said:
Furthermore, your anti-science attitude is particularly hypocritical in light of the tools you're using to communicate. The problem begins when people try to explain the observations indeed.
I paid $1500 for this computer and $600 for my monitor. But I would not give you five cents for the theory of evolution because it is a worthless theory to me. I simply have no use for it. Of course I am still listening, so if you want to show me where it would have some value to me, go for it.

My wife and I are talking about buying a patio set, does that make us hypocritcal also? After all, it takes science to dig that iron out of the earth, it takes science to make those soft cushions and the covers for them.

If you got something to sell, I got money to buy. But right now your showing me nothing, zip, zero, zilch, nanno.
 
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JohnR7

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Brahe said:
You cannot arbitrarly declare the Bible's factual statements to be true. You must test them against evidence.
I do not "arbitrarly" declare the Bible to be true, I have tested it and found it to be true. The Bible is filled with promises from God, we have a covenant relationship with God. Do you know anything at all about contract law? If we do out part, then we can be sure that God will keep His promises and He will deliver on what He says He will deliver on and He will do what He says He will do.

Let me show you a very few of the promises that I live by:

Isaiah 26:3
You will keep him in perfect peace,
Whose mind is stayed on You,
Because he trusts in You.

For those who trust in God and keep their mind steadfast on Him, His promise to us is that He will keep us in perfect peace.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

If we allow God to perfect us in His love, then we have nothing to fear. We can have confidence in Him that He will cause all things in our life to work out for the best.

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

If we seek to follow God's plan for us and our lives, then He will cause all things to work together for our good.

Psalm 37:4
Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

What more could you ask for, then the desires of your heart. Another promise from the word of God that I have tested and found to be true.

Ephes. 3:20
Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,

God is able to do a work in our lives that is abundantly above and beyond all that we would ask or think. Again, this is a promise from the word of God that has proven itself to be true to me in my life again and again.

Now, tell me again, what do you have to offer to me? What is it that you are peddling?
 
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JohnR7

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Mistermystery said:
Yeah so? What evidence do you got for that? There were 6 ice-ages before that one, so what makes this one "so freaking special"? And where does it say in the bible that this was done 7000 years ago?
Do you really want to go over this one again? Then lets start up another thread to talk about the dawn of civilization.
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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JohnR7 said:
I do not "arbitrarly" declare the Bible to be true, I have tested it and found it to be true.
You can't test something to be true if you automatically assume that it is true and that anything that doesn't "line up" with it is false.
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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JohnR7 said:
Do you really want to go over this one again? Then lets start up another thread to talk about the dawn of civilization.
Since sedentary civilizations, language, agriculture, irrigation, domesticated plants and animals, and relatively sophisticated tools and structures existed prior to 6,000 years ago, you don't have a leg to stand on in this regard, as has been shown to you in past threads on this subject.
 
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Loudmouth

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brightlights said:
if evolution is so true then why hasnt man grown like 5 heads and some stomachs and stuff?????~!?~!?~?!~?!~?!~?!~?!~?!?~!?~!?~!?~!?~!??~~~~!

im in a funny mood tonight
Have you ever seen "Dude, Where's My Car?" It would be scary to see what calamities humans could create with 5 heads instead of one. Although an opposable big toe would be pretty cool for picking stuff up off of the floor.
 
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Brahe

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JohnR7 said:
It has nothing to do with arrogance, it has everything to do with simply knowing the truth.
John, you simply declare your statements to be true regardless of evidence. That's not just arrogance, that's hubris. What's more, you have shown no interest in finding the truth. All you do is repeat you assertions.

As christians we can know the truth, because we have the Holy Spirit of Truth in us.
I've always liked this assertion because it is self-refuting. If you had the Holy Spirit of Truth, you would be able to present a logical argument with relevent evidence in support of your claims. Since you cannot, you do not have the Holy Spirit of Truth. Therefore, your claim to have the Holy Spirit of Truth is shown false by the fact that you use this claim at all.

If you do not know God, then you do not know the truth.
More of your arrogant nonsense, John?
 
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Brahe

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Your attempts to redirect the discussion are as obvious as they are expected, John. Your previous statement was this:
There can be no contradiction between the Bible and a observation anyways. The problem begins when people start to try and explain the observation or develop opinions about their observation.
Explain to me how this can be anything but an anti-science attitude.

Now, given your anti-science attitude, how can it be anything but hypocritical to use products built with knowledge gained from science? That includes everything from computers to patio sets, John.
 
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Brahe

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JohnR7 said:
I do not "arbitrarly" declare the Bible to be true, I have tested it and found it to be true.
Oh? You've tested the Bible's factual statements? Then tell me John, just what did you mean by these previous statements?
Gee, that doesn't sound like you tested the Bible John. That doesn't sound like you're even interested in testing the Bible. If anything, I think that if someone tested a factual statement from the Bible and the result "did not line up with the Bible," you would simply ignore the test.

Sounds good. Let's take a look at some of these promises.

Isaiah 26:3
You will keep him in perfect peace,
Whose mind is stayed on You,
Because he trusts in You.
This sounds like a purely psychological effect, John. Is God supposed to be some sort of supernatural Valium? From various descriptions, I had somehow expected something more material and less subjective. But more to the point, how can you be sure that this peace that you experience is the result of God and not merely your own self? For that matter, what is your explanation when a Christian does not find peace? Or what if a non-Christian finds peace. In your specific case, how was this test carried out?

If we allow God to perfect us in His love, then we have nothing to fear. We can have confidence in Him that He will cause all things in our life to work out for the best.
Again, this sounds like a purely psychological effect. Previous questions apply.

And just how does one know what God's plan is? Personages like Adolf Hitler, George W. Bush, and Mother Teresa thought they were carrying out God's orders. Were they? How can you distinguish someone who's genuinely carrying out God's plan from someone who is just saying that to someone who's simply mistaken? What happens when a Christian performs actions that are detrimental to society? What happens when a non-Christian performs actions that benefit society? In your case, how was this test carried out?

Psalm 37:4
Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart.
The desires of the heart, eh? Could you perhaps be more specific? Usual questions regarding Christians and non-Christians apply.

Ephes. 3:20
Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
Uh, gee. This is perhaps the most vague promise I've heard. If anything, it's more of an indescript sentiment. How do you test this, John?

Now, tell me again, what do you have to offer to me? What is it that you are peddling?
The only one peddling anything is you, John. Frankly, I'm wondering if you understand what constitutes testing, and why it's done. I'm also wondering why you apparently changed your mind about testing the Bible.
 
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