End Times

Wills said:

Israel has stood up to the UN as compared to Babylon

overpowering Judah in ancient times.

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Unless I am mistaken, didn't Israel attempt to stand against Babylon BEFORE it fell?? And, I am merely suggesting that the U.N., together with Russia, the U.S., and the E.U., could be the 1st Beast of Revelation. Now, this group is restrained now, but in the near future, if the winds change, it could impose or force its will upon Israel.

The 'quartet' via the U.N. has commited itself to bring peace to Israel and Palestine. How this plays out will be interesting to watch as events unfold.

Unless someone decides to let the jews re-build their temple, I dont think anything is going to come out of all the peace talks, or negotiating with arafat or whoever the palestinian leader is now, I dont see an end to any of the turmoil in the middle east until Jesus has come back. Like I said before, yes, things have been set into motion for Revelation to be fulfilled, at some point anyway, but that doesnt mean that we have entered the book yet.

cbk said:

Unless I am mistaken, didn't Israel attempt to stand against Babylon BEFORE it fell?? And, I am merely suggesting that the U.N., together with Russia, the U.S., and the E.U., could be the 1st Beast of Revelation. Now, this group is restrained now, but in the near future, if the winds change, it could impose or force its will upon Israel.

The 'quartet' via the U.N. has commited itself to bring peace to Israel and Palestine. How this plays out will be interesting to watch as events unfold.

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The USA is the one that could force its will. The UN is powerless.

One needs to look at the strength on the ground.

Wills said:

The USA is the one that could force its will. The UN is powerless.

One needs to look at the strength on the ground.

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What I am getting at is that the U.S. could impose its will shielded behind the U.N., but, the U.N. (the World) will still be held accountable in the eyes of God for it (the U.N.) has set itself up as the kingdom of the earth minus the presence or acknowledgement of God. All four kingdoms (U.N., U.S., E.U., and Russia) are major and have parties that lobby for power. Granted, the U.N. is the weaker of the four, yet it is still larger than anyone else; say, Iraq, Iran, Germany, and the like, and by some sick twist, it is the organization that has created modern Israel.

Also, when we look at the beasts of Daniel, all four do not necessarily have to be equal to one another. And, in regards to the U.N., it best represents the Babylon of old, even before Neb... Back when the tower of Babel was built --- this is what the U.N. represents; the rebuilt Babel, predecessor and birthplace of Babylon. Today, the U.N., via resolution 1405, is the birthplace of the "quartet", which to me represents the merging of the four beasts of Daniel into the one beast of Revelation that has 7 heads and 10 horns.

cbk said:

What I am getting at is that the U.S. could impose its will shielded behind the U.N., but, the U.N. (the World) will still be held accountable in the eyes of God for it (the U.N.) has set itself up as the kingdom of the earth minus the presence or acknowledgement of God. All four kingdoms (U.N., U.S., E.U., and Russia) are major and have parties that lobby for power. Granted, the U.N. is the weaker of the four, yet it is still larger than anyone else; say, Iraq, Iran, Germany, and the like, and by some sick twist, it is the organization that has created modern Israel.

Also, when we look at the beasts of Daniel, all four do not necessarily have to be equal to one another. And, in regards to the U.N., it best represents the Babylon of old, even before Neb... Back when the tower of Babel was built --- this is what the U.N. represents; the rebuilt Babel, predecessor and birthplace of Babylon. Today, the U.N., via resolution 1405, is the birthplace of the "quartet", which to me represents the merging of the four beasts of Daniel into the one beast of Revelation that has 7 heads and 10 horns.

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Are you saying that no organisation should have been formed
in this modern world of irresponsible leaders fighting over gold, oil, sea water fishing rights , land, etc . I disagree.

How do you counter act people like Adolf Hitler if the nations do not have any form of standard approaches to solving certain global issues that affect the nations? What alternative could have been put in place.

Bear in mind that we have to regulate our world but of course it does not mean the UN should become Satanic.

You must understand that our modern world cannot be left unsupervised

Babel was involved in a direct challenge to God while the UN is just a passive organisation with peoples who can never be made into one group for we have too many languages and cultures --- even certain countries are too varied with so many languages IN ONE NATION-- how much more the world.

That is God's action at Babel in itself created numerous groups with thousands of languages that CANNOT function IN ISOLATION else some North Korean leader , for example could just detonate an nuclear weapon when he feels like it , another country reacts with wnother weapon and the planet simply perishes. Modern humans cannot be left without global regulation due to the irresponsible nature of the majority of people , and those in power, financial controllers as well.

What starts with good intentions can be changed over time into evil organizations. Look at what happened to Christianity after Pentecost. It became polluted!

And most likely the first settlers at what would become Babel didn't expect evil to spread to the heights (no pun intended) that it did!

And look at the Old Testement establishment of the Jewish religion at the Holy Mountain. Certainly they didn't expect it to become polluted.

But, God knows all and it is all part of his plan.

God said it is not good for man to be together for they (would think) they could accomplish anything and they would try to set themselves up high. The U.N. does not praise God. It would be offensive. The U.N. has a statue that shows a man beating a sword into a plowshare with the scripture written upon it!!!

This just shows me that if something is big enough to get a man's hand into it, then EVIL can get into it. Satan roams the earth. To me, HE uses the U.N. because it is convenient for him.

Yes, the U.N. may have been necessary. But, it is VERY OPEN to be attacked by and used by Satan. It may be God's will

cbk said:

What starts with good intentions can be changed over time into evil organizations. Look at what happened to Christianity after Pentecost. It became polluted!

And most likely the first settlers at what would become Babel didn't expect evil to spread to the heights (no pun intended) that it did!

And look at the Old Testement establishment of the Jewish religion at the Holy Mountain. Certainly they didn't expect it to become polluted.

But, God knows all and it is all part of his plan.

God said it is not good for man to be together for they (would think) they could accomplish anything and they would try to set themselves up high. The U.N. does not praise God. It would be offensive. The U.N. has a statue that shows a man beating a sword into a plowshare with the scripture written upon it!!!

This just shows me that if something is big enough to get a man's hand into it, then EVIL can get into it. Satan roams the earth. To me, HE uses the U.N. because it is convenient for him.

Yes, the U.N. may have been necessary. But, it is VERY OPEN to be attacked by and used by Satan. It may be God's will

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Why do you expect the UN (made up of Atheist, Islamic, Budhist, Christian etc nations mixed) to praise God knowing full well that Jesus did not create a forced upon their will Christian Earth, after His ascension.

You are misunderstanding the UN in complaining that it doen not praise God, for the Earth is not made up of Christian nations alone. In fact, many of the Christian nations

themselves are made up up Christian homosexuals, drug dealers , harlots etc.

WHY BLAME the UN for that? THE VERY CHRISTIANS THEMSELVES are in sin, without

the UN's input.

I hope you are not blindly criticising the UN simply because it is asking for peace
and requiring Israel to make peace with the Palestinians.

Take a look at Christianity AND THIS HAS nothing to do with the UN. The Catholic church has this deadly sodomy issue destroying it, with the law also making the foolish error in saying (Boston) that sodomy of a child by a priest is not a bad crime as sodomy of a non priest. You blame the UN for that. ?

That is hypocrisy.

Christian nations are already in sin, hence the UN cannot be expected to be Christlike.

Your statement on man to avoid being one makes mockery of Christ's government.

Christ will rule the Planet in a manner involving rule of all nations, united nations, and humans would be one under Christ. That is ok, since Christ is ruling however, you claim humans should not aspire to have some degree of uniformity.

But, I am not pointing a finger at the U.N. alone. The question is, "Who or what is the first beast of Revelation?"

I believe the U.N. is a part of this organization as stated in my earlier posts. No, I do not EXPECT the U.N. to praise God, but the FACT that it does not angers God far more than it does me -- thus making it ripe for God's judgement (along with others) and making it ripe for the wiles of the Devil.

Yes, Christian nations partake in sinfullness. Yet, they are part of the U.N., thus both Christian nations and the U.N. share in this together. When I speak of the U.N., I am not talking about just a building in New York City. The building is just where they meet. No, I am talking about the world.

Babylon (the country/empire) = the world.
Babylon (the capital city) = New York

If satan attacks a church full of believers, as is happening all across the u.s. how much more so will he attack an organization, made up of people with different backgrounds, and beliefs (or lack of them) Just because something "seems" to be on the up and up, does not mean it is. For all we know the people who make up the u.n. could be the nicest people on the face of the earth, that doesnt mean satan wont twist their thoughts. That doesnt mean these people willingly follow satan, it just means that satan wants the world united so he can control it( so he thinks) and he is probably using the u.n. as pawns in his game. I dont believe cbk is trying to bash the u.n., but he is looking at everything with an open mind, and maybe people should stop looking for some "hitler type" person to usher in a united world when the u.s., u.n., and britain seem to be doing a good enough job doing it themselves. And as far as the u.n. not praising God, or even mentioning Him, so what if it offends someone, after all arent we supposed to be a nation "Under God?" If people dont like it, well too bad, why should I have to stand by and listen to people with other beliefs cram them down my throat or teach my children that we came from monkeys? That offends me, but we have to be tolerable? What about the millions of babies that die every year because they are not a part of someones plan? That offends me, and living in a country that legalizes drugs, spends money to re-build other countries that WE blow up, having to tell my kids that even though t.v. promotes same sex relationships and adultery is wrong, offends me, But hey we live in a free country right? We live in the land of the free. Do we really? God help us.

I disagree with you, Jayswife. God doesn't want one nation under God, he wants one Universe under God. Ha. Ha.

But, you are right, I am not bashing the United Nations as much as I am all organizations that, for the convenience of harmony, reject the authority of God!

I am, however, focusing much attention of the U.N. because IT, to me, is of more relevance to the book of Revelation than the Schwastiki Church of Love in Anywhere, USA.

If I were in another thread, you may see me focusing on these organizations. But, in the context of Babylon, I am compelled to focus my attention on the U.N. Also, in regards to the 1st Beast of Revelation, I am looking toward the "quartet" of the U.N., U.S., E.U. and Russia.

These are significant in the fact that they have set themselves up to bring/force peace to the Israeli/Palestinian problem -- of which, to me, is significant to 'end times' prophecy.

If it's big enough to get a hand in it, it is big enough for evil to enter. The U.N. fits this criteria, as well as many churches, organizations, countries, etc. The U.N. does not stand alone in this. But, to me, it represents the rebuilding of Babel. This could have been a good thing, but, ultimately, the U.N. is like a carbon copy of old Babel, but on a grander scale.

Look at it from God's point of view, if this is possible. Does He approve of the U.N. or does He not??? I believe He does not because IT does not praise Him, nor does it ACKNOWLEDGE Him for what He truely is. I do not see God approving of this.

If you are suggesting, (when you say "the TRUE BELIEVERS will KNOW and UNDERSTAND THE SIGNS AND TIMES" simply because John wrote "let the one who has wisdom understand"), that all true believers will fully understand and those who do not fully understand are NOT true believers, then I disagree 100%.

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hi cbk,
then its good that you disagree, because that is NOT my thought at all.
I WILL NEVER know Hashem the way you know him.
IF I KNEW all the mystery- then i would have NO NEED for you or anyone else. I WOULD be the ONE MAN assembly/church/synagogue/ekklesia/K'hillah/community
and this is not good, because one man is easily broken, while two is a good bond, three is unbreakable.

If you are of Hashem, a True believer, then ALL that you know WILL INDEED be truth- HOWEVER, you will only know a portion, While i only know another portion and probably intertwines with yours in some parts, while another will know another portion and much of our portion and when we all come together, there are no disagreements, just realizations as to how much more we are ONE, One community/synagogue/assembly/church/ecclesia/
khillah

and no doubt i'll PM you soon

shalom u'bracha

Who is Hashem? And cbk, no I do not think God approves of the U.N. but i think they are necessary to bring about some significant end-time prophecy, peace in the middle east, a global economy, tracking devices, control of the food, etc. The U.N. represents the world, the world will one day unite, probably through the encouragement of the U.N. It is all a part of Gods plan, you cant very well have a one world ruler for 42 months if everyone is going in different directions. And your'e right, God does want a universe under Him, not just this nation.

cbk said:

But, I am not pointing a finger at the U.N. alone. The question is, "Who or what is the first beast of Revelation?"

I believe the U.N. is a part of this organization as stated in my earlier posts. No, I do not EXPECT the U.N. to praise God, but the FACT that it does not angers God far more than it does me -- thus making it ripe for God's judgement (along with others) and making it ripe for the wiles of the Devil.

Yes, Christian nations partake in sinfullness. Yet, they are part of the U.N., thus both Christian nations and the U.N. share in this together. When I speak of the U.N., I am not talking about just a building in New York City. The building is just where they meet. No, I am talking about the world.

Babylon (the country/empire) = the world.
Babylon (the capital city) = New York

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I agree with your view on the world being responsible for its unfaithfulness and hence the world taking its blame.

I have an interesting question for you. Whenever people criticise a Leader who happens to appear as a Christian, some refer to the scriptures that teach Christ's words of subjects respecting their elders for they are their earthly leaders.
That is used as an excuse to avoid criticising leaders of nations , for they are seen as God authorised leaders. What are your views on this
and since our leaders ALL DIRECT THEIR representatives at the UN, how can we criticise our leaders AND THE UN MADE UP OF OUR VERY LEADERS who Christ teaches us to respect (provided they are not grossly Satanic obviously).

HaShem is G-D.
In hebrew it reffers to "THE NAME" of G-D. and HaShem literally means "the name"
its like saying Adoni/adonai
and since we are allowed to write it if NO ONE WILL PRINT THIS OUT AND THEN DESTROY THE PAPER ON WHICH IT IS ON it is in place of His name YHWH.
we just cannot pronounce the name with our voice- this would be invoking the name, there is a chance that it may be blasphemed
this also is in same standing with his first revelation of the name
EHYEH ASHER EHYEH

shalom u'bracha

I have put together a wonderful outline of what the Bible lays out for endtimes events. Its rather simple and very straight forward.

If you are willing, after you have read through it, lets review what the Bible is actually saying. Together, we will find the scripture and discuss what it means.

I look forward to working with you on this issue. Ive been studying this now for about 3-4yrs of my 22 year Christian life.

Sending you kind regards,

RTH
__________________________________________________



By: Sherry Erickson

Maybe this will help.

"For GOD so loved the world that HE gave HIS only begotten SON that whosoever believes in HIM shall not parish but have everlasting life."
John 3:16

Maybe, for your taste, believing in this right now is not enough for you to make a commitment to a Christian life.

"That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved."
Romans 10:9

Eventually, the choice to accept Christ will be yours to make, if its while you are reading this now, or sometime in the near future.

"Jesus answered and said to him "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
John 3:3

Soon enough though, if not already, denial will harden your heart to this message and your time for selection will pass.

Someday you will most likely need the following handy timeline guide for what the Bible says the future holds.

It may mean nothing to you now, but in the future, your memory will serve you well, and when you least expect it.

Bible prophecy lays out our future almost as if it were a movie script. What’s nice about it, is the prep time given before the final acts.

Are you in prep for this role?

"Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near."
Revelation 1:3


*please note: for this study, the Rapture remains the mystery of the Lord, left in His hands to decide when and how.

PRESENT DAY EVENTS

I. Birth pangs (resurrection to present)

a) Wars, rumors of wars
b) Famines, pestilences, earthquakes
c) Persecution
d) False prophecy, iniquity, hatred
e) Christ's gospel shared EVERYWHERE
f) Israeli Nation restored

FUTURE TO BEHOLD

II. Worldwide Peace Treaty (future)

a) The Great Falling Away (Many Christians loose faith)
a) ONE leader emerges (anti-Christ)
b) ONE worldwide rule takes over

III. 7 yr Tribulation Begins with Treaty

a) Jewish Temple rebuild begins
b) OT Temple animal sacrifices begin
c) 7 Seal Judgments begin

1. Conquering Power (white horse)
2. Worldwide War (red horse)
3. Worldwide Famine (black horse)
4. Death-1/4 World (pale horse)
5. Heavens martyrs seek revenge

d) At the same time: New Jewish temple defiled

1. Unholy Temple use by Anti-Christ
2. Temple sacrifices stopped
3. 2 heavenly evangelists appear

e) Seal Judgments continue

(6). Earthly Catastrophes

a. Great Earthquake
b. Sun blackened
c. Moon reddened
d. Starlight removed

(7). Seal opened exposing 7 Trumpet Judgments

a. Heaven silent for a time
b. Saints prayers offered again in Heaven
c. Great storms and another earthquake given to Earth

f) Trumpet Judgments

1. Hail and fire storm mixed with blood shower Earth

a. 1/3 of Earth’s trees destroyed
b. All green grass destroyed

2. Mountainous blood plague reaches Earth

a. 1/3 of Earth’s seas turn to blood
b. 1/3 sea life dies
c. 1/3 of Earth’s shipping fleet destroyed

3. Space debris (comet or star) fall to Earth named Wormwood

a. 1/3 of Earth’s streams/rivers tainted with poison from
wormwood
b. Many people die from poison in water

4. Skylight deminished

a. 1/3 Sunshine reduction
b. 1/3 Starlight reduction
c. 24 hour timeframe shortened


III . Great Tribulation Begins, last half of 7 yr peace treaty

a) Worldwide religious leader introduced (false prophet)

1. Religious freedom no longer exists – one world religion in place
2. Mark of Loyalty starts new barter system
3. Worship of Anti-Christ begins
4. System dissidents sought and put to death

b) Trumpet Judgments continued

(5) Considered 1st woe: Locus plague attacks Mark of Loyalty
holders

a. 5 month Locus sting illness given to Mark holders
b. Death in any fashion denied during this time

(6) Considered 2nd woe: 1/3 of world’s Mark holders die by fire,
smoke and brimstone

a. 2 heavenly evangelists killed
b. Bodies lie in death for 3 ½ days, then are called into heaven
c. Huge earthquake takes place, 7000 die

(7) Considered 3rd woe: Opening of 7 final bowl judgments

c) Bowl Judgments

1. Mark holders plagued with skin sores

2. Sea turns to blood again, everything in it dies this time

3. Rivers and streams turn to blood again

4. Sunshine overpowers Earth, men/earth burned crispy

5. All light removed from the Earth

6. Euphrates river dries up

a. False prophet and followers perform miracles to deceive.
b. Preparations are made for massive battle at Armageddon
with anti-Christ dissidents

7. GODs wrath is finished with massive earthquake

a. Great cities fall into destruction
b. Islands and mountains disappear

IV. Final Judgments

a) Satan, anti-Christ, false prophet cast into bottomless pit for 1000
yr sentence

b) Sheep/Goat Judgement

c) 1000 year Reign of Christ on Earth

d) Satan released for a bit more havic

e) Great White Throne Judgement

f) Lake of Fire new home for Hell and Satan, forever

g) New Heaven/Earth for eternity


Prepare yourself properly and all will be well for you during this time in the Lord!

Atkin said:

I agree with your view on the world being responsible for its unfaithfulness and hence the world taking its blame.

I have an interesting question for you. Whenever people criticise a Leader who happens to appear as a Christian, some refer to the scriptures that teach Christ's words of subjects respecting their elders for they are their earthly leaders.
That is used as an excuse to avoid criticising leaders of nations , for they are seen as God authorised leaders. What are your views on this
and since our leaders ALL DIRECT THEIR representatives at the UN, how can we criticise our leaders AND THE UN MADE UP OF OUR VERY LEADERS who Christ teaches us to respect (provided they are not grossly Satanic obviously).

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Sorry, I have not responded. Somehow, I missed this post and have just today read it. OOOOPS.

Well, it is true that the Bible says for us to obey our leaders. But, in America's case, sometimes you have to decide which leaders to follow for this is a democratically elected republic.

Our 'leaders' do not ask that we silently obey, do they? On the contrary, our 'leaders' ask that we freely express ourselves in making known our concerns, do they not?? In this way our 'leaders' can make better decisions for the country which they love.

Now, why am I saying 'leaders' and not leaders. Probably because our 'leaders', from my understanding of the constitution, are not those who sit in an office, but the true leaders are the people, the voters, which includes us!!! Those we elect, that sit in their offices are OUR SERVANTS --- and not our leaders. This is what keeps America free.

Now, because they are our servants (with many bosses -- being the voters) with the flexibility to weigh and decide which course is best (because they have many bosses which tell them to do different things), we, as their bosses, have the right to give them our input, and to lobby, without remaining silent.

Our democratically elected republic is a unique form of government that was formed upon the foundation of many good Christians that believed that those making the decisions should not be leaders in the historical view of leaders, but that the final decision makers should be SERVANTS of the people.

America is set up to embrace arguing and debates for the good of the country. Granted, many do not like this and sometimes forget that Clinton, Bush, etc are not leaders, but servants who are chosen by us to serve us by making decisions for us.

In the end, we are held as the leaders of this country just as much as the President and other elected officials. This is why we must remember that our votes can lead to judgement. Many believe in seperation of God and the voting booth, but I disagree.

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I believe we are living in the end times.
Look at the things that are happening at the moment in the world....
The formation of the European Union, and the Euro dollar (this could, in a way, be pointing towards the prophecy of a one world government and one currency. but who knows).

There have been many earthquakes happening in the world of late. Ones in Algeria and Turkey, etc.
Jesus said there would be earthquakes, as well as famines (but thats another thing).

Ive also heard that Saddam Hussein was rebuilding Babylon.

But anyway, thats just my 2 cents

If you had a beautiful garden full of weeds, would you destroy the whole garden or merely remove the weeds?