Ellen White

[kat8585]

Can anyone tell me the scriptures that point to
ellen White?

 

[OntheDL]

Can anyone tell me the scriptures that point to
ellen White?

The scriptures does not specifically speaks about Ellen White. But here are some verses that speak about prophets in the last days.

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Ellen White was not just a prophet. She was a messenger.

Matthew 11
9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10 ...Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

The scriptures does not specifically speaks about Ellen White. But here are some verses that speak about prophets in the last days.

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Ellen White was not just a prophet. She was a messenger.

What is interesting, and frequently forgotton is that Peter used Joel 2 in reference to his own time. The concept of the last days in the New Testament is that they were in the last days. So it is probably not too correct to assert to some other last days in Joel 2 when they have already arrived long ago. This usage, as used in the previous post is something that a lot of Christians have misunderstood.

 

[OntheDL]

What is interesting, and frequently forgotton is that Peter used Joel 2 in reference to his own time. The concept of the last days in the New Testament is that they were in the last days. So it is probably not too correct to assert to some other last days in Joel 2 when they have already arrived long ago. This usage, as used in the previous post is something that a lot of Christians have misunderstood.

As it was the early rain fell on Peter's days, the latter rain will fall on the last days.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Did I miss something???

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

As it was the early rain fell on Peter's days, the latter rain will fall on the last days.

That is a popular pentecostal position but it lacks any Biblical authority. The verses you quote say nothing of separate outpouring of the Holy Spirit and Peter clearly used Joel's verse about the last days of the time Peter was living. Finding verses which refer to agriculturally related weather events is not the same thing as finding Biblical doctrines.

For more see:
http://newprotestants.com/latterrain.htm

 

[OntheDL]

That is a popular pentecostal position but it lacks any Biblical authority. The verses you quote say nothing of separate outpouring of the Holy Spirit and Peter clearly used Joel's verse about the last days of the time Peter was living. Finding verses which refer to agriculturally related weather events is not the same thing as finding Biblical doctrines.

For more see:
http://newprotestants.com/latterrain.htm

There is plenty of biblical backing. Zech 12:10 has double fulfillments. One for after Jesus's death, the other for the end time. Rev 1:7 is the endtime fulfillment. Does your bible cross reference them?

Are you saying there won't be latter rain before the grain harvest? Can't you see Joel 2 has multiple (meaning more than 1) fulfillments? What you are saying is not biblical and makes no common sense. Agricultural timing of the rains does not disprove the timing of the spritual outpours. It's for illustration purpose.

If you know there is a counterfeit pentecostal movement, you should know it counterfeits the genuine one. What's the background of your denying the latter rain? To deny EGW is a prophet?

 

[Jon0388g]

Its interesting also that Joel depicts this scene:

"Blow a trumpet in Zion, consecrate a fast, proclaim a solemn assembly, gather the people, sanctify the congregatioin, assemble the elders, gather the children and the nursing infants, let the Bridegroom come out of His room, and the bride out of her bridal chamber." Joel 2:15-16 (!!!)

Jon

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

If you know there is a counterfeit pentecostal movement, you should know it counterfeits the genuine one. What's the background of your denying the latter rain? To deny EGW is a prophet?

I gave the history in the article I linked to. The latter rain doctrine came out of Irving's Pentecostalism. This concept that since there are counterfeits there must be a genuine does nothing for your case. As the genuine may in fact be that there is no such thing as early and latter rain outpouring of the Holy Spirit. In fact the concept that the Holy Spirit has poured out upon the Christian believers since their inception speaks against this supposed second outpouring.

You can take it that I am denying, Ellen White, or Branham, or Irving or Paul Cain. But all I am doing is asking people to read the context of the Bible for their doctrines instead of reading their doctrines into the Bible.

As for the question of multiple fulfillment that is a possibility however in that case prophecy loses most of it's credibility as a predictor of future occurrences. The question of how many fulfillments will always be there. The choice of it meaning just two fulfillments is certainly an arbitrary choice. The use of early and latter rain statements are not linked into any of these prophecies so you can't simply assign them there by fiat, or at least not with credibility.

As far as this topic is concerned I was just pointing out that the latter rain argument has no merit in the question of evidence for Ellen White as prophet. Likewise it would have no merit for saying Edward Irving was an Apostle or that Paul Cain or the Kansas City Prophets are really prophets. Believing in a latter rain does not establish prophetic creditals.

 

[OntheDL]

I gave the history in the article I linked to. The latter rain doctrine came out of Irving's Pentecostalism. This concept that since there are counterfeits there must be a genuine does nothing for your case. As the genuine may in fact be that there is no such thing as early and latter rain outpouring of the Holy Spirit. In fact the concept that the Holy Spirit has poured out upon the Christian believers since their inception speaks against this supposed second outpouring.

You can take it that I am denying, Ellen White, or Branham, or Irving or Paul Cain. But all I am doing is asking people to read the context of the Bible for their doctrines instead of reading their doctrines into the Bible.

As for the question of multiple fulfillment that is a possibility however in that case prophecy loses most of it's credibility as a predictor of future occurrences. The question of how many fulfillments will always be there. The choice of it meaning just two fulfillments is certainly an arbitrary choice. The use of early and latter rain statements are not linked into any of these prophecies so you can't simply assign them there by fiat, or at least not with credibility.

As far as this topic is concerned I was just pointing out that the latter rain argument has no merit in the question of evidence for Ellen White as prophet. Likewise it would have no merit for saying Edward Irving was an Apostle or that Paul Cain or the Kansas City Prophets are really prophets. Believing in a latter rain does not establish prophetic creditals.

The latter rain doctrine came out the bible and is supported the sanctuary and the spirit of prophecy. I haven't seen anything from you that's supported by the bible. So say anything you want. You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Sophia7]

Since this is the Traditional Adventist subforum, where debate is supposed to be prohibited, please note that there is another Ellen White thread in the main SDA forum, in which open discussion is welcome.

 

[happywiththelord]

Cute hats sophia!!

 

[Telaquapacky]

1 Corinthians 1:27-29
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are,
29 so that no one may boast before him.

What could be more foolish or weak or lowly or despised to religious leaders than a woman prophet? Answer: a girl prophet. What could be more foolish or weak or lowly or despised than a girl prophet? Answer: A sickly, disfigured girl prophet.

 

[Sophia7]

Cute hats sophia!!

Thanks.

 

[djconklin]

What is interesting, and frequently forgotton is that Peter used Joel 2 in reference to his own time. The concept of the last days in the New Testament is that they were in the last days. So it is probably not too correct to assert to some other last days in Joel 2 when they have already arrived long ago. This usage, as used in the previous post is something that a lot of Christians have misunderstood.

For the disciples the "last days" began with the resurrection and ascension of Christ. They have been breaking in ever since.