Ellen White on the Sabbath

bugkiller · Nov 12, 2012

Elder 111 said:
Then your arguement do not make sense nor comply with biblical doctrine.
It is absolutely illogical.

Whether or not God or I make no sense is unimportant. My idea lines up with the Scripture. I get my ideas from the Scripture. I do not go to the Scripture to support my ideas. I read and believe what is there.

bugkiller

Elder 111 · Nov 12, 2012

MoreCoffee said:
Yes, the ten commandments and all the rest of the torah too.

So why is this recorded? Rev 22:14-15.
Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Some one did not tell God He abolished the lying law? Or thou shall not kill?

Elder 111 · Nov 12, 2012

MoreCoffee said:
There is no need to extract the third commandment from the other nine because it is the whole law that has grown old and passed away - all ten of the ten along with the rest of the Torah have passed away.

How long was that a doctrine of the Catholic Church?

bbbbbbb · Nov 12, 2012

Elder 111 said:
So why is this recorded? Rev 22:14-15.
Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Some one did not tell God He abolished the lying law? Or thou shall not kill?

Whose commandments?

Elder 111 · Nov 12, 2012

bugkiller said:
No and neither does it provide the rghteousness required for salvation. Jesus siad you will enter thru Him or not get in. This excludes the law. The law has nothing to do with salvation. The law only brings condemnation and death. The law is called the ministration of death.

bugkiller

Excludes the law from what? From existence?

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 12, 2012

Originally Posted by Elder 111

So why is this recorded? Rev 22:14-15.
Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Some one did not tell God He abolished the lying law? Or thou shall not kill?

bbbbbbb said:
Whose commandments?

Ummm, YAHWEH'S

..

Elder 111 · Nov 12, 2012

bugkiller said:
I took this excerpt from post 951 -

Hope that persons do not think that I am against them or just oppose them. I am very concern that our salvation are in danger because God's commandment is willfully disobeyed and I know that no one would expect to see God's face while willfully disobeying Him.

Would you care to explain what you mean? I think you mean that we are in willing sin and do not have salvation.

bugkiller

God has stated requirements that we need to follow. If we fail to do so He has clearly stated that we are none of His.

Elder 111 · Nov 12, 2012

bugkiller said:
What is meant here? Are the 10 Cs also the law? Rom 7, James 2.

bugkiller

There are not the one removed? How then can Jesus judge the murderer.
Here it is God the righteous judge claiming that a liar can not enter Heaven and there is not law that says so. Is that fair or Just? It must be there for all for if the christain falters he like wise is Judged.

Elder 111 · Nov 12, 2012

bugkiller said:
Please explain how we can be delivered from the law and obligated to the law at the same time. It seems to me such a poition would be disbelieving the Scripture. Disbelieving is a sin. Lack of faith is not against the law according to the Book of the Law.

bugkiller

The deliverance is not from obeying the law but from it's penalty. Jesus deid for our death not to have no law. Where does it say in scripture that Jesus to remove the law? Yea He die for our sin , which is for violating the law, which is for our death our just reward.

MoreCoffee · Nov 12, 2012

Elder 111 said:
How long was that a doctrine of the Catholic Church?

From the beginning - it is a doctrine of the apostles.

What the church teaches is not a simple denial of the binding character of the ten commandments; the church both receives the ten commandments as of lasting moral value and as binding on Christians as a way of life under the gospel. However the Church understands the ten commandments in the light of the Christian truth revealed in Jesus Christ. Thus Catholics teach the ten commandments in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. If you are interested in what Catholics teach and believe about the ten commandments then read paragraphs 2052 through 2082 in the Catechism of the catholic Church.

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 12, 2012

Elder 111 said:
God has stated requirements that we need to follow. If we fail to do so He has clearly stated that we are none of His.

That is true

.

MoreCoffee · Nov 12, 2012

Elder 111 said:
So why is this recorded? Rev 22:14-15.

Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Some one did not tell God He abolished the lying law? Or thou shall not kill?

Why do you interpret "his commandments" as meaning "the ten commandments as recorded in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5"?

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 12, 2012

MoreCoffee said:
Why do you interpret "his commandments" as meaning "the ten commandments as recorded in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5"?

What other ones would He be referring to? Just curious.

.

bbbbbbb · Nov 12, 2012

LittleLambofJesus said:
Ummm, YAHWEH'S

..

After a bit of study I was surprised that the following translations do not mention anything about doing anybody's commandments in Revelation 22:14,15

14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. (NIV)

14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. (NASB)

14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. (ESV)

14 Blessed [are] they that wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life, and that they should go in by the gates into the city.
15 Without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loves and makes a lie. (Darby)

14 Blessed are they that wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb: that they may have a right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.
15 Without are dogs, and sorcerers, and unchaste, and murderers, and servers of idols, and every one that loveth and maketh a lie. (Douay-Rheims)

What do you say, o resident translator?

MoreCoffee · Nov 12, 2012

LittleLambofJesus said:
What other ones would He be referring to? Just curious.

Possibly the commandments of Jesus Christ. Possibly the gospel's commandments.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. (1 John 2:1-11)

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 12, 2012

bbbbbbb said:
After a bit of study I was surprised that the following translations do not mention anything about doing anybody's commandments in Revelation 22:14,15

14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
14 Blessed [are] they that wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life, and that they should go in by the gates into the city.
14 Blessed are they that wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb: that they may have a right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.

What do you say, o resident translator?

That would depend on which greek text you want me to use

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

NASB) Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.

NKJV) Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Greek New Testament - Parallel Greek New Testament by John Hurt

W-H ) Revelation 22:14
makarioi oi plunonteV taV stolaV autwn ina estai h exousia autwn epi to xulon thV zwhV kai toiV pulwsin eiselqwsin eiV thn polin

Alexandrian) Revelation 22:14
makarioi oi plunontes taV stolas autwn ina estai h exousia autwn epi to xulon thV zwhV kai toiV pulwsin eiselqwsin eiV thn polin

Byz./Maj.) Revelation 22:14
makarioi oi poiounteV taV entolaV autou ina estai h exousia autwn epi to xulon thV zwhV kai toiV pulwsin eiselqwsin eiV thn polin

Textus Rec.) Revelation 22:14
makarioi oi poiounteV taV entolaV autou ina estai h exousia autwn epi to xulon thV zwhV kai toiV pulwsin eiselqwsin eiV thn polin

.

bbbbbbb · Nov 12, 2012

LittleLambofJesus said:
That would depend on which greek text you want me to use

Search for 'Genesis 1:1' in the version

NASB) Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.

NKJV) Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Greek New Testament - Parallel Greek New Testament by John Hurt

W-H ) Revelation 22:14
makarioi oi plunonteV taV stolaV autwn ina estai h exousia autwn epi to xulon thV zwhV kai toiV pulwsin eiselqwsin eiV thn polin

Alexandrian) Revelation 22:14
makarioi oi plunontes taV stolas autwn ina estai h exousia autwn epi to xulon thV zwhV kai toiV pulwsin eiselqwsin eiV thn polin

Byz./Maj.) Revelation 22:14
makarioi oi poiounteV taV entolaV autou ina estai h exousia autwn epi to xulon thV zwhV kai toiV pulwsin eiselqwsin eiV thn polin

Textus Rec.) Revelation 22:14
makarioi oi poiounteV taV entolaV autou ina estai h exousia autwn epi to xulon thV zwhV kai toiV pulwsin eiselqwsin eiV thn polin

.

Yes, that is what I thought - it is probably a textual variation. In this case it can become dicey if one places a great deal of emphasis on one or the other. In your humble opinion, which do you consider to be the better?

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 12, 2012

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

That would depend on which greek text you want me to use

bbbbbbb said:
Yes, that is what I thought - it is probably a textual variation. In this case it can become dicey if one places a great deal of emphasis on one or the other. In your humble opinion, which do you consider to be the better?

I would just add one to the other.
Can't go wrong there, me thinks. What would others think of that?

NKJV) Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] those who do His commandments *and those who wash their robes
that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

bbbbbbb · Nov 12, 2012

LittleLambofJesus said:
I would just add one to the other.
Can't go wrong there, me thinks. What would others think of that?

NKJV) Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] those who do His commandments *and those who wash their robes
that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

I don't have a problem with that.

MoreCoffee · Nov 12, 2012

LittleLambofJesus said:
I would just add one to the other.
Can't go wrong there, me thinks. What would others think of that?

NKJV) Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] those who do His commandments *and those who wash their robes
that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The Textus Recptus (produced by Erasmus) for revelation 22:16-21 was translated from the Vulgate into Greek by Erasmus.

The story of Erasmus’ retranslation of the final verses of Revelation from the Vulgate into Greek is well-known and discussed in every textbook on New Testament textual criticism. The basic elements or facts are the following. The first edition of the New Testament with a Greek text was prepared by Erasmus and published in 1516. For Revelation, he based his Greek text on a single manuscript, minuscule 1r (now numbered 2814 according to the new Gregory-Aland number). This manuscript, however, lacks the final verses of the book, and in order to have a complete text, Erasmus retranslated these verses into Greek from the Latin. Elements of his retranslation survive in every edition of the so-called Textus Receptus, the standard text of the printed Greek New Testament until the nineteenth century. (see http://www.reltech.org/TC/v16/Krans2011.pdf )

Close, but not quite the verse we're examining.

Ellen White on the Sabbath

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