Elijah called down fire on his enemies

Mark Quayle · Dec 29, 2022

biblelesson said:
Christ died for the sins of the world, which includes all if only the would come.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Everyone has an opportunity to come to Christ to be forgiven for their sins, but many won’t.

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen

Romans 10:13,
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

So we don’t know if those we are angry with, and even if they do us wrong will be saved. They have a chance to repent just like we do.

How does that answer my question? —"Did Christ forgive all?"

Mark Quayle · Dec 29, 2022

ViaCrucis said:
Not my "opinion", it's official Lutheran doctrine, and no it's not. Romans 5:18 says that Christ brought justification to all men, the text means what it says.

Christ died for everyone. He tasted the death of all men (Hebrews 2:9).

-CryptoLutheran

Is it official Lutheran doctrine then, that all men are justified?

ViaCrucis · Dec 29, 2022

Mark Quayle said:
Is it official Lutheran doctrine then, that all men are justified?

Objective Justification: Christ died for all the sins of the world and has made perfect satisfaction for all.
Subjective Justification: Our receiving the righteousness of Christ through faith that we might benefit and be saved.

And yes, that is official Lutheran teaching.

What is Objective Justification?

steadfastlutherans.org

https://lutheranreformation.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ref500-Bible-Study-4-Subjective-1-Leaders-Guide.pdf

Objective justification

wels.net

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51cf10fbe4b0a6b9999e382c/t/59dd7a64cd39c3d0f206d33c/1507687013854/Objective+%26+Subjective+Justification+Handout.pdf

-CryptoLutheran

Mark Quayle · Dec 29, 2022

ViaCrucis said:
Objective Justification: Christ died for all the sins of the world and has made perfect satisfaction for all.
Subjective Justification: Our receiving the righteousness of Christ through faith that we might benefit and be saved.

And yes, that is official Lutheran teaching.

What is Objective Justification?

steadfastlutherans.org

https://lutheranreformation.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ref500-Bible-Study-4-Subjective-1-Leaders-Guide.pdf

Objective justification

Objective justification

wels.net

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51cf10fbe4b0a6b9999e382c/t/59dd7a64cd39c3d0f206d33c/1507687013854/Objective+%26+Subjective+Justification+Handout.pdf

-CryptoLutheran

And so thus, double payment for sins? Christ paid at the cross for the sins later paid again by the sinner in the Lake of Fire?

ViaCrucis · Dec 30, 2022

Mark Quayle said:
And so thus, double payment for sins? Christ paid at the cross for the sins later paid again by the sinner in the Lake of Fire?

The payment owed is righteousness, which man cannot do because of sin. Only Christ by His life, death, and resurrection has made perfect satisfaction for the just requirements of the Law, being righteous in our stead. That is why the one act of obedience brings justification to all, even as the one act of disobedience brought sin and death to all.

Christ, in taking on our sin and death has brought them into Himself and put them to death on the cross. So that the just condemnation of the Law which stands against us has also been satisfied in Him. And thus, through faith, whoever believes in Him receives His righteousness, imputed to them as pure grace. And having His righteousness is no longer under the condemnation of the Law. But without that imputation of righteousness through faith we remain under the condemnation of the Law.

So that what Christ has won for us on the cross becomes ours through faith, and this is the gift, work, and power of God by His grace.

So that the perfect work of Christ for all men might come to us men, as individuals, that we might receive it as God's gift.

Without receiving God's gift we cannot benefit of Christ's work. For this reason God has caused His word to go forth, through the Church, to all nations, calling all to repentance and faith in Christ. The call of the Gospel is to all, for Christ died for all, for God desires that all be saved.

There is nobody Christ did not die for. There is nobody that is outside the call and power of the Gospel. There is nobody that God cannot save. There is nobody that God is unwilling to save.

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Sin and death came to all through the disobedience of Adam.
Christ made just satisfaction for all.
So that God having consigned all to disobedience has chosen to have mercy on all.
And it is the will and desire of God that all be saved.

Not that all [necessarily] will be saved. But that is the will and desire of God that they be saved.

So that, in the end, it is God's work alone that saves. Just as it is our work alone that condemns and damns us.

So that the condemnation of the Law indeed stands against our works, and it is our works which will testify against us on the Last Day. Through faith alone, passively receiving the righteousness of Jesus Christ as pure gift, will we pass through Judgment to life everlasting.

Should we find ourselves in hell, it will not be for the lack of God's love and grace toward us, or the lack of Christ's merit to save us. It will be because we have abhorred forgiveness and grace and have willed it ourselves to be there. For we despised the light and loved darkness, for our works were wicked.

-CryptoLutheran

DamianWarS · Dec 31, 2022

Sabri said:
Elijah called down fire on his enemies. He killed about 150 soldiers. I have prayed for God to kill my enemies. Specifically, I want to see and hear of their funeral. These enemies are purely evil. Demonic. Have committed abominable acts that one can not speak of. This specific enemy purposefully goes around tempting married woman to sin. Has purposely gathered a host against innocent people for his on disgusting glory. He manipulates, lies, is a truce breaker and unmerciful. He does damnable acts to see people cry. He likes to torment people because he feels he’s so powerful. He has abused his power and likes to turn married women into harlots and commit adultery even though he is married. He thinks adultery is ok. He has a family wife and kids. However, that’s not good enough. After women refuse his advances he continues to woo them with lies. I am unsure of how many women he has committed adultery with. He’s disgusting. He tried to turn me into one of his victims. He comes off as a helper of sorts but soon you find he’s is a habitual liar. I am sorry to say but I truly would like to be Elijah and call down fire from heaven to burn him up. Is that wrong? I think not. He has done all types of damnable things for years. He understands it’s wrong but doesn’t care. He wants to see women cry he actually wants to spank abuse women physically to get them to act right and do what he wants them to do. I had this horrible vision of him whooping me. He once yelled several times at me about how much he cares. The rage in his voice was disgusting. He truly disgust me. I almost hate the fact that I once thought of him as a friend or brother. After he insisted on making me a harlot and I refused. I begged him to be my brother he refused. Then he blocked me from being friends with other men. I truly would like to see his death.

the OT has a lot of very concrete and physical examples of the spiritual whereas today they are far more abstract. For example with abstracts like good and evil in the OT Israel is portrayed as the good side and its enemies as the evil side. Other examples of the spiritual found in the physical are things like physical sacrifice or physical circumcision, a physical 10 commandments placed in a physical box where God is said to physically dwell. The bible is quite clear however that these things are physical placeholders to represent and symbolize the spiritual and these physical counterparts' role is to point to the spiritual but not to point to itself which would be counter-productive.

In the NT we also have physical representation as well, such as baptism, wine and bread, etc... These things, however, lose their meaning when they no longer can point to the spiritual and we just try and evoke the physical. the physical itself is a tool but outside of Christ has no power beyond the natural.

In the case of our enemies, wishing physical death upon them would be sending them to a place of eternal punishment. It's not something I would wish upon anyone nor is it a weight I'm ready to bare. The meaning of baptism is going underwater and putting to death the old and rising up in a new creation. So when we wish death upon our enemies it is that death we should wish so they may arise in Christ a new creation.

Eph 6:12 says "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." Make no mistake, the enemy is the enemy, and pray against it's work, but people are not that enemy, they are our mission. If you pray for swift judgment don't wish harm upon the flesh, but instead speak against the powers behind the flesh, for Christ has authority over that power so why go to the victim of evil, why not directly to evil itself? Pray for new life to take charge and conquer the old. This is a repeated theme echoed throughout the bible, even though Elijah sending down fire, the creation account itself is a battle of light overcoming darkness ending in rest. it is that death and subsequent rest that we should endlessly pray upon our enemies... but always first upon ourselves, as Christ tells us "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me". this is not a one-time practice but a daily action.

I's2C · Jan 1, 2023

Sabri said:
Elijah called down fire on his enemies. He killed about 150 soldiers. I have prayed for God to kill my enemies. Specifically, I want to see and hear of their funeral. These enemies are purely evil. Demonic. Have committed abominable acts that one can not speak of. This specific enemy purposefully goes around tempting married woman to sin. Has purposely gathered a host against innocent people for his on disgusting glory. He manipulates, lies, is a truce breaker and unmerciful. He does damnable acts to see people cry. He likes to torment people because he feels he’s so powerful. He has abused his power and likes to turn married women into harlots and commit adultery even though he is married. He thinks adultery is ok. He has a family wife and kids. However, that’s not good enough. After women refuse his advances he continues to woo them with lies. I am unsure of how many women he has committed adultery with. He’s disgusting. He tried to turn me into one of his victims. He comes off as a helper of sorts but soon you find he’s is a habitual liar. I am sorry to say but I truly would like to be Elijah and call down fire from heaven to burn him up. Is that wrong? I think not. He has done all types of damnable things for years. He understands it’s wrong but doesn’t care. He wants to see women cry he actually wants to spank abuse women physically to get them to act right and do what he wants them to do. I had this horrible vision of him whooping me. He once yelled several times at me about how much he cares. The rage in his voice was disgusting. He truly disgust me. I almost hate the fact that I once thought of him as a friend or brother. After he insisted on making me a harlot and I refused. I begged him to be my brother he refused. Then he blocked me from being friends with other men. I truly would like to see his death.

Tit 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
If you truly want him to pay him back walk with Christ let him see your good life in a righteous walk; how good your life has become compared to his, that is the way to get back. Get the hurt and hate out of your heart for you are only doing what he wants you to do, do the opposite knowing and becoming into a higher plain. The hate in your heart will only bind you not him.

dzheremi · Jan 1, 2023

A lot could be said, but I can't say it better than the Simpsons already did years ago:

Mark Quayle · Jan 1, 2023

ViaCrucis said:
The payment owed is righteousness, which man cannot do because of sin. Only Christ by His life, death, and resurrection has made perfect satisfaction for the just requirements of the Law, being righteous in our stead. That is why the one act of obedience brings justification to all, even as the one act of disobedience brought sin and death to all.

Christ, in taking on our sin and death has brought them into Himself and put them to death on the cross. So that the just condemnation of the Law which stands against us has also been satisfied in Him. And thus, through faith, whoever believes in Him receives His righteousness, imputed to them as pure grace. And having His righteousness is no longer under the condemnation of the Law. But without that imputation of righteousness through faith we remain under the condemnation of the Law.

So that what Christ has won for us on the cross becomes ours through faith, and this is the gift, work, and power of God by His grace.

So that the perfect work of Christ for all men might come to us men, as individuals, that we might receive it as God's gift.

Without receiving God's gift we cannot benefit of Christ's work. For this reason God has caused His word to go forth, through the Church, to all nations, calling all to repentance and faith in Christ. The call of the Gospel is to all, for Christ died for all, for God desires that all be saved.

There is nobody Christ did not die for. There is nobody that is outside the call and power of the Gospel. There is nobody that God cannot save. There is nobody that God is unwilling to save.

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Sin and death came to all through the disobedience of Adam.
Christ made just satisfaction for all.
So that God having consigned all to disobedience has chosen to have mercy on all.
And it is the will and desire of God that all be saved.

Not that all [necessarily] will be saved. But that is the will and desire of God that they be saved.

So that, in the end, it is God's work alone that saves. Just as it is our work alone that condemns and damns us.

So that the condemnation of the Law indeed stands against our works, and it is our works which will testify against us on the Last Day. Through faith alone, passively receiving the righteousness of Jesus Christ as pure gift, will we pass through Judgment to life everlasting.

Should we find ourselves in hell, it will not be for the lack of God's love and grace toward us, or the lack of Christ's merit to save us. It will be because we have abhorred forgiveness and grace and have willed it ourselves to be there. For we despised the light and loved darkness, for our works were wicked.

-CryptoLutheran

You hint that I assume, or teach, or believe, or imply that some go to hell for the lack of God's love and grace??? They go to hell because they do not believe (ref. John 3:18).

But I see you make no mention of payment for sin against God, and instead claim the payment is righteousness. That construction, you have not supported here. Nor do I see it in Scripture. There is plenty it says about Christ's righteousness, and the things you do get from Scripture here are real, but that does not imply there is no payment for sin.

In other words, you have, by false implication, tried to move the goalposts. You have not answered the question, and now you have a new one to answer:
1. And so thus, double payment for sins? Reference post #44

2. So, there is no payment for sin? Reference post #45

ViaCrucis · Jan 1, 2023

Mark Quayle said:
You hint that I assume, or teach, or believe, or imply that some go to hell for the lack of God's love and grace??? They go to hell because they do not believe (ref. John 3:18).

But I see you make no mention of payment for sin against God, and instead claim the payment is righteousness. That construction, you have not supported here. Nor do I see it in Scripture. There is plenty it says about Christ's righteousness, and the things you do get from Scripture here are real, but that does not imply there is no payment for sin.

In other words, you have, by false implication, tried to move the goalposts. You have not answered the question, and now you have a new one to answer:
1. And so thus, double payment for sins? Reference post #44

2. So, there is no payment for sin? Reference post #45

There is no "double payment" involved if Christ, bearing the wrath of God as "payment" for sin does so for everyone. I don't benefit from Christ's work apart from faith by which I receive Christ's work. If I do not receive Christ's work through faith (Subjective Justification) then the condemnation of the Law is still against me.

Goalposts have not been moved.

-CryptoLutheran

HappyHope · Jan 2, 2023

Sabri said:
Elijah called down fire on his enemies. He killed about 150 soldiers. I have prayed for God to kill my enemies. Specifically, I want to see and hear of their funeral. These enemies are purely evil. Demonic. Have committed abominable acts that one can not speak of. This specific enemy purposefully goes around tempting married woman to sin. Has purposely gathered a host against innocent people for his on disgusting glory. He manipulates, lies, is a truce breaker and unmerciful. He does damnable acts to see people cry. He likes to torment people because he feels he’s so powerful. He has abused his power and likes to turn married women into harlots and commit adultery even though he is married. He thinks adultery is ok. He has a family wife and kids. However, that’s not good enough. After women refuse his advances he continues to woo them with lies. I am unsure of how many women he has committed adultery with. He’s disgusting. He tried to turn me into one of his victims. He comes off as a helper of sorts but soon you find he’s is a habitual liar. I am sorry to say but I truly would like to be Elijah and call down fire from heaven to burn him up. Is that wrong? I think not. He has done all types of damnable things for years. He understands it’s wrong but doesn’t care. He wants to see women cry he actually wants to spank abuse women physically to get them to act right and do what he wants them to do. I had this horrible vision of him whooping me. He once yelled several times at me about how much he cares. The rage in his voice was disgusting. He truly disgust me. I almost hate the fact that I once thought of him as a friend or brother. After he insisted on making me a harlot and I refused. I begged him to be my brother he refused. Then he blocked me from being friends with other men. I truly would like to see his death.

Elijah was something else. I understand your confusion. Been there. I pray the Lord send his angels to mess up child traffickers until they either turn to God or are cut down and stopped from trafficking people/drugs in their demon infested drug pits. These are my harshest prayers, personally, because lives are a stake. Your situation doesn't sound like life or death.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Bible scholars, but wouldn't those killed by Elijah have killed Elijah given the chance had he "lost" that little divine showdown on Mt Carmel? He was super bold to show up to that match off, IMO. God had to be inspiring him the entire time. His situation and yours aren't the same, though. People are going to do people wrong down here on earth a lot like your situation and it's going to hurt badly. I'd give it to the Lord. Tell Him how you feel including the disgust and anger. See what He says.

Romans 12:19 ESV
Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

Romans 12:14 NLT
New Living Translation
Bless those who persecute you. Don’t curse them; pray that God will bless them.

Brihaha · Jan 2, 2023

Sabri said:
Elijah called down fire on his enemies. He killed about 150 soldiers. I have prayed for God to kill my enemies. Specifically, I want to see and hear of their funeral. These enemies are purely evil. Demonic. Have committed abominable acts that one can not speak of. This specific enemy purposefully goes around tempting married woman to sin. Has purposely gathered a host against innocent people for his on disgusting glory. He manipulates, lies, is a truce breaker and unmerciful. He does damnable acts to see people cry. He likes to torment people because he feels he’s so powerful. He has abused his power and likes to turn married women into harlots and commit adultery even though he is married. He thinks adultery is ok. He has a family wife and kids. However, that’s not good enough. After women refuse his advances he continues to woo them with lies. I am unsure of how many women he has committed adultery with. He’s disgusting. He tried to turn me into one of his victims. He comes off as a helper of sorts but soon you find he’s is a habitual liar. I am sorry to say but I truly would like to be Elijah and call down fire from heaven to burn him up. Is that wrong? I think not. He has done all types of damnable things for years. He understands it’s wrong but doesn’t care. He wants to see women cry he actually wants to spank abuse women physically to get them to act right and do what he wants them to do. I had this horrible vision of him whooping me. He once yelled several times at me about how much he cares. The rage in his voice was disgusting. He truly disgust me. I almost hate the fact that I once thought of him as a friend or brother. After he insisted on making me a harlot and I refused. I begged him to be my brother he refused. Then he blocked me from being friends with other men. I truly would like to see his death.

I do understand the temptation to avenge wrongdoings. But we are called on to pray for these sinners, even if they are enemies. This is difficult but not impossible. If we leave vengeance for God to punish, then we are liberated also from sinning ourselves. Peace

Elijah called down fire on his enemies

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Christ died for the sins of the world, which includes all if only the would come.​

​

1 John 2:2​

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.​

John 3:16​

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.​

​

Everyone has an opportunity to come to Christ to be forgiven for their sins, but many won’t.​

​

​

Matthew 22:14​

For many are called, but few are chosen​

​

Romans 10:13,​

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.​

​

​

Romans 1:16​

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.​

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Confessional Lutheran

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Confessional Lutheran

Follower of Isa Al Masih

Active Member

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Confessional Lutheran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

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Christ died for the sins of the world, which includes all if only the would come.

1 John 2:2

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Everyone has an opportunity to come to Christ to be forgiven for their sins, but many won’t.

Matthew 22:14

For many are called, but few are chosen

Romans 10:13,

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 1:16

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.