Elah and Allah

[Londongal]

im sure this will have been debated before..
many xtians seem to think that Allah is not the same as the xtian God.
but Allah is the one true God according to muslims..the cxreator.
Allah is simply the arabic wword for God.
a xtian friend of mine has known many converts from islam ...and she says that they still call almighty God "Allah"...simply because arabic is their first language.
God is frequently referred to as jehovah/yaweh etc...but those are terms of his status...ie LORD etc
the actual original Aramaic word....for Gods NAME is Elah.
hence jesus on the cross.."Eloi ,eloi,lama sabacthani"(sorry if i gt the spelling wrong!)
the similarities in the pronounciation of the 2 words Elah/Allah...would surely suggest that both faiths do indeed worship the one true God.
it is in the belief in WHO jesus was /is that the divide comes....ie son of God versus revered prophet.
peoples thoughts?

 

[Christos Anesti]

I don't think the word "Allah" itself is a problem just the fact that their conception of God is not Trinitarian.

 

[Simonline]

im sure this will have been debated before..
many xtians seem to think that Allah is not the same as the xtian God.
but Allah is the one true God according to muslims..the cxreator.
Allah is simply the arabic wword for God.
a xtian friend of mine has known many converts from islam ...and she says that they still call almighty God "Allah"...simply because arabic is their first language.
God is frequently referred to as jehovah/yaweh etc...but those are terms of his status...ie LORD etc
the actual original Aramaic word....for Gods NAME is Elah.
hence jesus on the cross.."Eloi ,eloi,lama sabacthani"(sorry if i gt the spelling wrong!)
the similarities in the pronounciation of the 2 words Elah/Allah...would surely suggest that both faiths do indeed worship the one true God.
it is in the belief in WHO jesus was /is that the divide comes....ie son of God versus revered prophet.
peoples thoughts?

With respect, nothing could be further from the truth. YHWH is utterly different from Allah. http://answering-islam.org/authors/clarke/worship_same_god.html




Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

I don't think the word "Allah" itself is a problem just the fact that their conception of God is not Trinitarian.

The fact that Allah is Unitarian rather than Trinitarian is but the tip of the iceberg (see my previous post).

Simonline.

 

[Phileoeklogos]

it is in the belief in WHO jesus was /is that the divide comes....ie son of God versus revered prophet.
peoples thoughts?

Even if that was all that it is, that would be enough, that alone is more than a fly in the ointment, to us it's like the universe in the ointment.

 

[GeorgeTwo]

the similarities in the pronounciation of the 2 words Elah/Allah...would surely suggest that both faiths do indeed worship the one true God.

We don't decide whether YHWH of the Bible is the same God of the Qur'an by how words are pronounced.

 

[GeorgeTwo]

it is in the belief in WHO jesus was /is that the divide comes....ie son of God versus revered prophet.

Muslims are confused because Allah did not know who the Christ really was. The Qur'an calls Jesus THE Messiah and that title in itself should have been a strong clue to Allah as to who the Christ is.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

I don't think the word "Allah" itself is a problem just the fact that their conception of God is not Trinitarian.

This.

I recognize the God whom Muslims worship to be the same God which I worship, in the same way that non-Trinitarian Christians worship the same God, as do Jews and Bahais.

The issue for me isn't a matter of which god (as though this were an issue of YHVH vs Zeus, Odin or Amun-Ra), but a matter of theology. There are plenty of those who identify themselves as Christians who adhere to heterodox and heretical notions about God, but I don't regard them as worshiping a different God. Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians, Ebionites, etc. In some cases those views of God are even more afield from the orthodox view than the Muslim view (for example, Mormonism).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[GeorgeTwo]

This.

I recognize the God whom Muslims worship to be the same God which I worship, in the same way that non-Trinitarian Christians worship the same God, as do Jews and Bahais.

The issue for me isn't a matter of which god (as though this were an issue of YHVH vs Zeus, Odin or Amun-Ra), but a matter of theology. There are plenty of those who identify themselves as Christians who adhere to heterodox and heretical notions about God, but I don't regard them as worshiping a different God. Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians, Ebionites, etc. In some cases those views of God are even more afield from the orthodox view than the Muslim view (for example, Mormonism).

-CryptoLutheran

I believe Muslims believe they are worshiping the same God as Jews and Christians, but that is all I will give them.

Have you ever read the Qur'an?

 

[CryptoLutheran]

I believe Muslims believe they are worshiping the same God as Jews and Christians, but that is all I will give them.

Have you ever read the Qur'an?

Parts. I lost my copy some odd years ago after I lent it to a friend along with my copy of the Book of Mormon.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[GeorgeTwo]

Parts. I lost my copy some odd years ago after I lent it to a friend along with my copy of the Book of Mormon.

-CryptoLutheran

The only way to tell if the God of Israel, the Creator, is the God of the Qur'an is to read the Qur'an and compare it to the Bible.

I've read several translations of the Qur'an over the past 9 years and am still reading it. Be sure to read the Hadiths and a good biography of Muhammad.

I do not believe Muhammad was a prophet sent by the God of Israel, the Creator, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, etc., or the God revealed by His Messiah, Jesus.

 

[Nick T]

In my opinion Muslims, just the same as Jews, worship the "God of Abraham". However both groups fall into the same trap of worshipping God in an Old Testament way, completly ignoring Christ and the Trinity. Both the Quran and the Talmud are certainly un-christian (they both deny Christ) but they still contain prayers to the "God of Abraham".

 

[GeorgeTwo]

In my opinion Muslims, just the same as Jews, worship the "God of Abraham". However both groups fall into the same trap of worshipping God in an Old Testament way, completly ignoring Christ and the Trinity. Both the Quran and the Talmud are certainly un-christian (they both deny Christ) but they still contain prayers to the "God of Abraham".

I understand why Jews do not accept the testimony of the NT, after all most Jews did not believe Jesus is the Messiah, just as most of the Jews in Jesus' day did not.

The God of the Qur'an seems to go back to the OT and ignores the testimony of the Christ in the NT.

Why is that?

 

[GeorgeTwo]

Parts. I lost my copy some odd years ago after I lent it to a friend along with my copy of the Book of Mormon.

-CryptoLutheran

If you have not read, nor studied the Qur'an, then you are not qualified to determine whether the God of the Qur'an and the God of Israel are the same God and whether Muslims are worshiping the same God.

 

[Simonline]

I recognize the God whom Muslims worship to be the same God which I worship, in the same way that non-Trinitarian Christians worship the same God, as do Jews and Bahais.

With respect, if you are an orthodox Judeo-Christian and you worship YHWH, as revealed in and through the Person of the Messiah and in and through the Judeo-Christian Scriptures, then you are definitely not worshipping Allah. In the same way, the God of Judaism, the God revealed in and through the Person of the Messiah and in and through the Judeo-Christian Scriptures, is definitely not the 'god' of either the Unitarians (of whatever persuasion) or the Bahai faith.

The issue for me isn't a matter of which god (as though this were an issue of YHVH vs Zeus, Odin or Amun-Ra), but a matter of theology. There are plenty of those who identify themselves as Christians who adhere to heterodox and heretical notions about God, but I don't regard them as worshiping a different God. Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians, Ebionites, etc. In some cases those views of God are even more afield from the orthodox view than the Muslim view (for example, Mormonism).

-CryptoLutheran

Sorry but I don't follow this defective line of reasoning that says that because there is only one God then anyone who is worshipping 'god' must be worshipping the one God, whether in the right way, or in the wrong way?! The very fact that the Judeo-Christian Scriptures acknowledge the existence of multiple gods repudiates the idea that we are all ultimately worshipping the same God. Our gods may be more sophisticated than the crude physical effigies of olde but they are still gods nontheless.

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

In my opinion Muslims, just the same as Jews, worship the "God of Abraham". However both groups fall into the same trap of worshipping God in an Old Testament way, completly ignoring Christ and the Trinity. Both the Quran and the Talmud are certainly un-christian (they both deny Christ) but they still contain prayers to the "God of Abraham".

Firstly, Muslims worship Allah, not YHWH (the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the only three human names with whom YHWH has ever associated Himself (Ex.3:15,16; 4:5; 6:3 et. al.)).

Secondly, unlike Muslims, not all Jews worship God as a strict Unitarian (their understanding of their God is far more sophisticated than that) and neither is it true that all worshippers of YHWH, in Spirit and in Truth (Jn.4:24), are only Gentile Christians (Jn.10:16 (if the 'other sheep, not of this fold' were Gentile Christians then the people to whom the Messiah was speaking must have been Nazarenic (i.e. believing) Jews?)).

Thirdly, it is the Tanakh [i.e. the 'Old' Testament] that is Scripture for the Jews, not Talmud.

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

I understand why Jews do not accept the testimony of the NT, after all most Jews did not believe Jesus is the Messiah, just as most of the Jews in Jesus' day did not.

The God of the Qur'an seems to go back to the OT and ignores the testimony of the Christ in the NT.

Why is that?

Because Mohammad was taught his 'Judeo-Christian' theology by both Jewish and Christian heretics rather than authentic orthodox believers. It is for this reason that the Qur'an is repudiating heretical concepts of God (such as the blasphemous idea that the Trinity consists of a 'Holy Family' - 'Father' (YHWH/ALLAH), 'Mother (Mary)' and 'Son' (Jesus)) rather than the authentic Biblical revelation of God.

 

[Simonline]

If you have not read, nor studied the Qur'an, then you are not qualified to determine whether the God of the Qur'an and the God of Israel are the same God and whether Muslims are worshiping the same God.

If you want a good, nay, excellent education on Islam and the prophet Mohammad then I heartily recommend the works of such men as...

...Dr. Mark A. Gabriel http://www.drmarkgabriel.com/...

...Joel Richardson of 'Joel's Trumpet' http://www.joelstrumpet.com/...

...and former Palestine Liberation Organization terrorist Walid Shoebat. http://www.shoebat.com/.


Simonline.

 

[Nick T]

I understand why Jews do not accept the testimony of the NT, after all most Jews did not believe Jesus is the Messiah, just as most of the Jews in Jesus' day did not.

The God of the Qur'an seems to go back to the OT and ignores the testimony of the Christ in the NT.

Why is that?

Both Jews and Muslims reject the NT because they refuse to acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God, that God can ever have a son and the whole trinity concept.
I'm not really sure why it is more "understandable" for the jews to reject Christ... I would have thought that those who knew scripture best would have welcomed him with open arms! But in any case it makes no differance; both Jews and Muslims are essentially on the same page.

 

[Nick T]

Firstly, Muslims worship Allah, not YHWH (the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the only three human names with whom YHWH has ever associated Himself (Ex.3:15,16; 4:5; 6:3 et. al.)).

Allah just means God in arabic; it is the same word that many Middle Eastern Christians use in their worship as well. When I pray I use the word God in english and that dosn't stop me praying to YHWH.
Although I suppose it could be argued that unless you pray trinitarianly you are not praying to God but I disagree with that.

Secondly, unlike Muslims, not all Jews worship God as a strict Unitarian (their understanding of their God is far more sophisticated than that)

I know that some Orthodox Jewish sects have varying more mystical views on God but that makes them no closer to the trinity or christianity than any unitarian.

and neither is it true that all worshippers of YHWH, in Spirit and in Truth (Jn.4:24), are only Gentile Christians (

Jn.10:16 (if the 'other sheep, not of this fold' were Gentile Christians then the people to whom the Messiah was speaking must have been Nazarenic (i.e. believing) Jews?)).

In my opinion there is a differance between worshipping God and worshiping him in Spirit and Truth. To worship Him in truth I would say that you would need a trinitarian understanding (how can you worship Him in truth when you won't accept the truth about Him?)
However I could be completly wrong on this and Spirit and Truth could just mean sincerly in which case I could understand why you would group in non-christians however that would still include muslims aswell as jews.

Thirdly, it is the Tanakh [i.e. the 'Old' Testament] that is Scripture for the Jews, not Talmud.

Simonline.

Nearly all modern religous jews, with the exeptions of the Liberals and the Karaites interpret the Tanakh using the Talmud. While I understand that it is certainly not scripture it is still held in very high regard. It is also a major barrier between Christianity and Judaism as it is hard to come to Christ while being guided by the Talmud and many of the Rabbi's who wrote within were staunchly opposed to Christianity.