Either way, Trinity is Pagan.

[Drynwhyl]

Although Christians won’t admit it, the Trinity is not a new concept. The Egyptian sun god Ra had many a different form and name. The three most prominent ones are that of a dung beetle named Ra-Khefri which pushed the sun across the sky, a human form called Amon-Ra, which he used to head the Ennead [council of the gods], and Ra-Atum, the Creator which rose on a lotus flower out of the Waters of Chaos. All of Ra’s forms were of one god, yet all existed simultaneously. Most of you were expecting the Isis, Horus, Osiris Trinity, but Christians get around that Trinity by saying that they worship one god in three forms. So, Trinitarians, please tell me how your Trinity of ‘Three forms, One God’ differs from the pagan Trinity of Ra, which is also Three forms, One god.

 

[Heathen Dawn]

Good subject, Drynwhyl. Let the sparks fly.

 

[Ceph]

The answer to this question is simple: xianity stole the trinity.

Infact my opinion is that everything in xianity is stolen from previous religions, twisted to fit their purpouse and now xians think they have the right to claim everything as their own.

If you wish to debate about this please take it to the debate forum.

 

[Rae]

Hm. Don't Hindus see Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva as a trinity as well?

If Vaj is around, maybe he can enlighten us.

 

[Hix]

One would be interested to know, the father of christianity who brought together the councils that decided on the churchs theological doctrines named Constantine was a devout pagan who followed the pagan sun god Mithras. Who was ALSO part of a trinity. He had his own day for his worship which was SUNday, he was born in a cave to a virgin and had come to save the world.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[Drynwhyl]

Exactly my point. Egyptians thought of the Trinity first. The Christians took the Trinity idea and put it into practice at the Council of Nicea.

Also, since Christians are taught to shun pagan teachings... shouldn't they shun the Trinity?

 

[Heathen Dawn]

Also, since Christians are taught to shun pagan teachings... shouldn't they shun the Trinity?

There’s a Christian sect that does just that—Jehovah’s Witnesses.

 

[nyj]

One would be interested to know, the father of christianity who brought together the councils that decided on the churchs theological doctrines named Constantine was a devout pagan who followed the pagan sun god Mithras. Who was ALSO part of a trinity. He had his own day for his worship which was SUNday, he was born in a cave to a virgin and had come to save the world.

Do you have any legitimate sources to cite to back up this silliness Hix?

 

[Oblio]

but Christians get around that Trinity by saying that they worship one god in three forms. So, Trinitarians, please tell me how your Trinity of ‘Three forms, One God’ differs from the pagan Trinity of Ra, which is also Three forms, One god.

The problem here is that you are ignorant of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, so your premise and OP falls flat being made of straw.

 

[Drynwhyl]

There’s a Christian sect that does just that—Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Yep. So do the Unitarian Christians, but I am addressing the Trinitarians in general.

 

[Drynwhyl]

The problem here is that you are ignorant of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, so your premise and OP falls flat being made of straw.

Oh am I now... I have asked you to show me how the pagan three in one differs from the Christian three in one.

Both are exactly the definition of Trinity.

Prove that your Trinity is unique and un pagan.

 

[Drynwhyl]

Might I add Oblio, that the avatar you are using has pagan symbols in it as well

 

[Hix]

Do you have any legitimate sources to cite to back up this silliness Hix?

Sure, why not?

Religious Tolerance article: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa.htm#ev

Resemblance to Egyptian god Horus:
http://www.truthbeknown.com/christ4.htm

And a collection of things the church has borrowed from Paganism:
http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/

You are aware how Constantine was an non-baptised Pagan who became a christian only after a dream of a cross before one of his bloody battles. And the fact that during his councils he set up almost everything was changed and they didnt have a Jew about the place. The similarities are striking

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[Oblio]

Unitarian Christians

Tain't no such thing.

 

[Drynwhyl]

Yes there is.

They're such a small sect that i'm not suprised you don't know about them.

I would list websites but i haven't posted enough it seems...

Do a yahoo search for 'Unitarian Christian' [w/o the ']

 

[PaladinValer]

The problem with the Ra example is that Ra isn't all three of those at once. God is always God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit at once.

Hix, as much I as I also enjoy the OCRT, I know how to take it with a grain of salt. As they themselves state, they are religious reporters, not theologians themselves. They report what they find, and as a historian and who has taken comparitive religion courses before, they don't always have the best sources for their information. I know of that particular webpage, and they unfortunately don't give all the information correct, which is why its contense has actually changed repeatedly over time because they've been corrected many times about the facts. I myself know about the story of Horus, and to be honest, angels and many other things they suggest surrounded this god's life are absent. And don't get me started on Osiris or Krishna parallels to Jesus either.

The "truthbeknown" site is known to take whatever material that seems to make Christianity a conspiracy and use it, without checking for authenticity. I wouldn't allow my future students at public school to simply use anything they like, and I'm surprised you have here. The information given about Horus is inaccurate.

As for your last website, they've made a huge error. 1) they have no citations that I have seen, which makes me question it already, 2) they completely take many of the quotes of Early Church Fathers out of context (especially St. Justin Martyr's; that gave me a laugh), and 3) they obviously don't see that Christianity's theology on the Trinity, monotheism, etc, are actually different from the "supposed sources." Similar? No doubt about it, but still different. I gave a Trinity example earlier. Virgin Birth? It was God the Holy Spirit who overshadowed St. Mary and caused her to bear Jesus. Note that it wasn't God the Father, but God the Holy Spirit. And before you go right to the "divine-father-through-a-different-form," you need to ask if that form was a "Personhood" of that god, who could be that and its "normal" form at the same time. If not, there is no parallel.

 

[Perceivence]

I believe is point is that 'Unitarian Christians' are not Christians. I don't know if that's my standing on that, but I do know that Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians.

As for the topic...I don't get the point. The fact that there was a Pagan Religion before the doctrine of the Trinity that had a doctrine similar to the Trinity does not make the Trinity pagan. If it were that the doctrine of the Trinity is a copy of or was taken from this Pagan doctrine without any Christian (ie Biblical) basis, then you'd have a point.

Or at least that's my take on it all.

 

[Drynwhyl]

The problem with the Ra example is that Ra isn't all three of those at once. God is always God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit at once.

Wrong. Ra was believed to be all at once. He kept the Waters of Chaos calm so that life could flourish in the world, he sat at the head of the council of the gods, and he pushed the sun across the sky ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

I restate my question; how is the pagan trinity of Ra different from the Christian trinity?

 

[Drynwhyl]

I believe is point is that 'Unitarian Christians' are not Christians. I don't know if that's my standing on that, but I do know that Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians.

As for the topic...I don't get the point. The fact that there was a Pagan Religion before the doctrine of the Trinity that had a doctrine similar to the Trinity does not make the Trinity pagan. If it were that the doctrine of the Trinity is a copy of or was taken from this Pagan doctrine without any Christian (ie Biblical) basis, then you'd have a point.

Or at least that's my take on it all.

Jehovahs Witnesses ARE Christians. a Christian is defined as anyone who follows the teachings of Jesus. Therefore, JW are Christian. Just like Mormons are Christian. In fact, there are so many different types of Christians out there... IVE LOST COUNT.

My point is that the pagan doctorine of the Trinity is EXACTLY like that of the Christian Trinity. Christians are taught to shun pagan beliefs, so why do they accept a pagan practice?

 

[Oblio]

I believe is point is that 'Unitarian Christians' are not Christians.

Correct