Eeek! Atheist poetry!

[Westvleteren]

Well, since this seems the place to post the poetry that inevitably gushes forth from spiritual musings, I give you...

Windblown
​

When I left the lullaby songs,
the moon was at last made of rock and dust and
water falling from the skies was rain.
But the wonder remained from
when the bough broke and my feet touched the ground.

The earth was real and hard; and
The magic was real and mine again.
No guilt for blood I never asked for
and never needed.
The full moon rising in the humid heat
and the purple summer night
are so much more than the lesser light
of my sleeping years.

Now rain is water
falling from the skies, of all things,
and stripped of their exalted births, the stars
whisper more intricate secrets
than will ever swell in the hollow chests
of the children huddled in the treetop,
in cradles gently rocked
by the hands of the singers of songs.

 

[Spherical Time]

Good job. I like the image of the children in the treetops. Mine's a little off topic.

Have I no right to live?

The world tells me no.
I find myself living in the shadow of every person that I meet,
and I see no future for one such as myself.
What do others in my position do?
They kill themselves, and the world sits and watches me.
I look to my parents for support but find only a steel wall
That I scramble to climb but find myself unable to scale or destroy.
They hide behind it, having built it in my youth,
and I have no one to whom I could turn.
I search for another reason to live,
but life turns those I love away from me.
God hides my work behind his hand,
Death opens his hand and motions to me.
Should I go follow? I think I should.
But I shy away, unable to take that final step,
even though the world itself yearns for my death,
and rests unsettled until my life ends.
I cannot unsettle my parents nor hide from my friends,
despite the walls and sideways glances.
And so my path is set, I walk into the flames,
unable to turn away.
I grope with my hands for a way out,
but doors slam shut and ropes burn away underneath my hands.
Those that stay drag me further down,
I cannot break free.

April 2002, Spherical Time

 

[Lessien]

Interesting. Not the kind of poetry I'd write, but interesting.

 

[Westvleteren]

ST, that's pretty dark, but powerful. Reflects some of what we all feel at one time or another (but hopefully, not too often...)

Thanks for posting it!

 

[RJHarmony84]

Morbid, if I may say so. But cool. Shall I give it a try?

Gecko Deams
Listless Life...Ah, comforts fount in small things!
I lie like the gecko in the sun,
Still--waiting for Fortune to flutter by...
And burned by the touch of Cruel Experience
I struggle to slumber in peace...
So soft, sleep, and so full of wonders--
Nightly roaming, free, in Paradise
And I fall willing prey to such forgetful bliss...
Can any other world be so bright?
Any magic or mystery, be more fulfilling?
I cling to sweet shadows, hoping
that in this place where dreams are Real
Old wounds can, maybe, Heal...
And Joy, Jewel-faced, gleams once more
Within my reach...

 

[Spherical Time]

Sorry if it was morbid and dark, but it was the only poem in my collection that touched on atheism, and it that part focused on the darker aspects of Christianity's love. I was going to suggest more poetry, a back and forth between atheists, but RJ Harmony has posted.

And, while RJ Harmony's poem falls slightly outside of the context of this thread, I'd like to comment on it a little. I thought about trying to be soft, but I'm going to give you my honest opinion, first in the poem and then a workshop critique presented backwards. In a normal workshop I would give the good first and then the negative, while here it is opposite.

Gecko Deams
Listless Life...Ah, comforts fount in small things!
I lie like the gecko in the sun,

I take this as an insulting jab against atheists, whether you intended it or not. It implies laziness and shallowness and this is where I find myself first dissasociated from the poem.

Still--waiting for Fortune to flutter by...
And burned by the touch of Cruel Experience

I've heard this before in apologetics, that we're waiting, or that we've been hurt and hardened by Christianity in the past. It's not a set of phrases that encourage any kind of empathy. The touch of Cruel Experience are obviously important (note the capital letters) but I have no idea why.

I struggle to slumber in peace...
So soft, sleep, and so full of wonders--
Nightly roaming, free, in Paradise
And I fall willing prey to such forgetful bliss...

Another thing that I hear often in apologetics, that atheists are secretly theists (specifically Christians), in this case relating to these heavenly dreams that the gecko doesn't know about while awake. If this isn't an attempt at apologetics, then you've just completely shifted the environment of the gecko with no real explanation as to why.

Can any other world be so bright?
Any magic or mystery, be more fulfilling?

The implied answer is "no" and that leads to the question, "Where is the gecko when asleep?"

I cling to sweet shadows, hoping
that in this place where dreams are Real
Old wounds can, maybe, Heal...

See above about the "I've been hurt" apologetics, and the dreams quickly morph into:

And Joy, Jewel-faced, gleams once more
Within my reach...

. . . if only we would accept Christ.

I was wondering why a Christian would write a poem to be submitted into an atheism forum even before I started this. I hoped that it would be an exploration of an atheistic point of view by a Christian. However, the exploration is . . . well . . . not to be offensive, shallow. The writer completely removes him or herself from the subject matter to be explored, using analogies for the way that they are viewed on a two dimensional basis, and that makes me understand that no empathy for the subject was even attempted.

The main point of this thread seems to be to assign a metaphor, the gecko, and then figure out the best way to translate apologetic arguements into that situation. Well, it seems to have succeeded, but I can't say that I'm necessarily impressed. After all, it makes a judgment call about the intelligence of the reader, and that the poem's statements (at least one of which is a stereotype) must be correct.

To improve the poem you might want to consider finding some point that you can empathize with in the gecko and then exploring your arguments from that point: If you can find some part of the gecko to empathize with, perhaps I can use it as well.

There is, also, little tension, and you might want to think about how to create that with a position that must be undeniably correct. If the answer is so obvious to the gecko, how come the analogy fails when the metaphor is reversed?

However, your meter is good, and the metaphor certainly shows significant talent. I think that you could use lineation (and I'm big on lineation) to emphasize certain points and create a different feel from the awake and sleeping sections of the poem.

Hope that you keep writing,
Spherical Time

 

[Westvleteren]

Going to have to go with Spherical Time's assessment.

Granted, my poem is just as condescending to Christians as RJ's is to atheists, but, let's face it--this is the one thread out of zillions on this forum that doesn't feature a poem along the lines of "I'm a Worm, Praise God," or "Roses are red, violets are blue, Jesus is Lord and sure loves U!!!!!"

I guess a little equal time for artistic expression was too much to ask.

 

[CalledToWait]

but, let's face it--this is the one thread out of zillions on this forum that doesn't feature a poem along the lines of "I'm a Worm, Praise God," or "Roses are red, violets are blue, Jesus is Lord and sure loves U!!!!!"

<chuckle> Well you are in a Christian forum after all. I honestly thought it was refreshing.

I guess a little equal time for artistic expression was too much to ask.

Definitely not, at least not to me. I enjoyed reading them very much.

Sorry if it was morbid and dark, but it was the only poem in my collection that touched on atheism, and it that part focused on the darker aspects of Christianity's love.

We have to express our feelings- it's part of human nature. I employ a similar technique, writing songs. Some are dark and 'morbid', actually. Some speak of empty pain, deep valleys, awful times in my life. In the words of a friend of mine, "Life SUCKS!" That's the truth, we live in a broken world.

I take this as an insulting jab against atheists, whether you intended it or not. It implies laziness and shallowness and this is where I find myself first dissasociated from the poem.

My guess is that she meant the gecko and forgot that she could be inferring atheism and atheists.

We live with fallen people with deceitful hearts, and I apologize, both for RJ and for Christianity, if any part of her poem offended you. You can't look at the people in the faith- people change and fade, but Christ remains the same. For how our faith really is, don't look at us, look at Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:7 If you only look at us, you might well miss the brightness. We carry this precious Message around in the unadorned clay pots of our ordinary lives. That's to prevent anyone from confusing God's incomparable power with us.

I don't mean that in a preachy way, I mean it as the truth, and as an apology if (and I'm assuming yes) it did.

The touch of Cruel Experience are obviously important (note the capital letters) but I have no idea why.

Because there are many, many arrogant Christians that do not glorify God, who wound and harden (for lack of a better word) non-Christians by their selfish, impure actions.

That's just my take, and I appreciate your openness and two-sided critique to RJ's poem.

Sincerely In Christ,

CalledToWait

 

[Spherical Time]

We have to express our feelings- it's part of human nature. I employ a similar technique, writing songs. Some are dark and 'morbid', actually. Some speak of empty pain, deep valleys, awful times in my life. In the words of a friend of mine, "Life SUCKS!" That's the truth, we live in a broken world.

As someone once told me, "This world can be hellish, but it makes the beauty and love all the more precious."

My guess is that she meant the gecko and forgot that she could be inferring atheism and atheists.

I did consider that, but then I didn't know why she would post it here.

We live with fallen people with deceitful hearts, and I apologize, both for RJ and for Christianity, if any part of her poem offended you.

Well, actually, I'm more upset about how her attempt at trying to convey the emotional content of the scene failed than about the insult. If I wasn't so busy I might suggest that we work together to improve the empathy so that both atheists and theists can relate to what he or she has to say; I think that would make the poem much stronger.

You can't look at the people in the faith- people change and fade, but Christ remains the same. For how our faith really is, don't look at us, look at Christ.

*laugh* Well, unfortunately groups are usually judged by their weakest members and not their strongest. I try (and hopefully often suceed) at judging people on their own merits though.

That's just my take, and I appreciate your openness and two-sided critique to RJ's poem.

Sincerely In Christ,

CalledToWait

No, Called To Wait, thank you for understanding that I wasn't trying to insult anyone! Your openness is truly apreciated.

Spherical Time

 

[Omawna]

I know my sign says I am a christian, but I must say I am a so called "baby" christian and I can certainetly relate to atheists, theists, pagans, and christians a like. I think that sometimes it is human nature to read between the lines and assume that there is more then there is. Which of course, in this case I could be totally wrong and R. J. meant to be insulting but I kinda think she didn't. I didn't really notice all those things in R.J.'s poem untill they were later pointed out. Which it could be my intellegence level, I'm not all that good with poetry either. So, I guess what I am trying to say is relax, blow it off, try not to take offense to easily. The atheist poem(s) hit on christians as much as christian poem hit on atheist. Granted the title is Atheist poems or whatever, but when two exetremes are put into the same place they tend to contrast each other. Besides for a lot of people religions and beliefs are a huge part of their life and thoughts that even if none of you meant to offend the other it was bound to happen... Anyways, I hope for every one to find peace.

 

[Omawna]

Oh, btw, I liked all three. I loved the reference to moon and magic in Windblown. I love the moon and night sky and to me it seems like the moon and her mysteries goes hand in hand with magic. Maybe you have thought this too, Westvleteren? In your poem Spherical Time, I could really relate to it. Often times I feel that way, perhaps too often. I don't know if it is nescissarily because of Christians but because of ego-centrism and misunderstandings. R.J. I have been hurt too, I can understand about hoping for the pain to be healed and that maybe if we do something different, then maybe the pain will be healed.

 

[Spherical Time]

I know my sign says I am a christian, but I must say I am a so called "baby" christian and I can certainetly relate to atheists, theists, pagans, and christians a like. I think that sometimes it is human nature to read between the lines and assume that there is more then there is. Which of course, in this case I could be totally wrong and R. J. meant to be insulting but I kinda think she didn't.

I agree, I don't think that RJ intended to be insulting . . . but I think that he or she was insulting, unintensionally.

I didn't really notice all those things in R.J.'s poem untill they were later pointed out. Which it could be my intellegence level, I'm not all that good with poetry either. So, I guess what I am trying to say is relax, blow it off, try not to take offense to easily.

Ten deep breaths, eh? Well, I wasn't offended, but I did want to explain what I saw that was objectionable. I suppose that, on paper (or the computer screen) it could have appeared very harsh.

The atheist poem(s) hit on christians as much as christian poem hit on atheist. Granted the title is Atheist poems or whatever, but when two exetremes are put into the same place they tend to contrast each other.

And I hope that RJ understands that I didn't choose to pick on him or her because of that, but only because this was posting in a thread that I was choosing to observe.

Besides for a lot of people religions and beliefs are a huge part of their life and thoughts that even if none of you meant to offend the other it was bound to happen... Anyways, I hope for every one to find peace.

Truly, and I also hope everyone finds peace.

EDIT: Thanks for the compliment above, I'm afraid that I didn't see it when I first posted.

 

[Westvleteren]

Oh, btw, I liked all three. I loved the reference to moon and magic in Windblown. I love the moon and night sky and to me it seems like the moon and her mysteries goes hand in hand with magic. Maybe you have thought this too, Westvleteren?

Thanks for your comments. My (rather opaque) reference to magic is that so many religious people think science is dry and sucks the "magic" out of everything it touches. But I have found that learning what science has discovered about the universe makes it even more amazing and awe-inspiring than before.

The stars were cool when they were little twinkling lights put in the sky by the gods, but they're even cooler as ancient, distant suns around which circle other planets.

I like that, where religion claims to have all the answers, science lets us see how little we really know, and how much more there is left to discover. We're not in a closed system, turning inward; we're a small part of a vast universe, looking outward, and there's always something amazing waiting to be encountered and understood.

(Wow. That turned into a ramble. Sorry.)

 

[CalledToWait]

I like that, where religion claims to have all the answers, science lets us see how little we really know, and how much more there is left to discover. We're not in a closed system, turning inward; we're a small part of a vast universe, looking outward, and there's always something amazing waiting to be encountered and understood.

I wasn't going to post again here, but I need to answer this.

Define "religion". If you're talking about all the religions of the world grouped together, then you are 100% correct. But if you're talking about Christianity (forgive me if I'm wrong, this is just a guess), Christ never said that we'd have all the answers- He has the answers, but he never said that we could find all the answers. He did say that as we get to know him better, he'll reveal some of the answers.

And you know what's even cooler? I agree with you totally from the word 'science' on. Science and 'religion' should never split. I have no problem with science in the least- biology, geology, anthropology, physics, chemistry, etc.- guess what? We do that too . Science must back up a religion, or it's totally false. The only religion (and I include atheism) that it supports in its entirety is Christianity.

Oh yeah, and I must say again, to all posters- excellent poems . And forgive me for intruding again, I respect you all very much.

~CalledToWait

 

[Spherical Time]

I wanted to answer, and I have, but this would be an inappropriate place to do so, so I've taken the response to the General Apologetics Forum.

 

[Westvleteren]

CalledToWait, it was good to hear from you again.

I must respectfully disagree with some of your comments above. That discussion is, however, more suited to another forum than this one.

Suffice it to say that I'm glad we have enough common understanding to be able to appreciate each other and discuss the poetry here. Maybe we'll meet in GA on the rest.

Edited to add: Spherical, you beat me to it. See you in GA.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Atheist poems are fun.



Sinshine


In the meadow
surrounded by timber
I reached my slumber,
heated by the dragon’s mouth.

I could try to fly
under the sky
and reach you,
but I’d fall.

- Icarus’s impairment –

In the icy tundra,
dormant and stagnant
you stand, tendons pulling
and ligaments breaking.

- Before Eden, you were beautiful -

Blindly basking in the sunshine I bathe in your bright sight…

It’s hard to perceive,
conceive how I could
achieve this paradise
amongst ugliness.

It’s scary and bleak when gray matter becomes red…

 

[Omawna]

 

[Spherical Time]

Well, I am just a stupid ugly head (please note that my language would be much worse, but I know that the language filters on CF wouldn't allow it).

So, RJ has contacted me, and I have harshly misjudged her as only a poetry snob truly can. I feel horrible, and I hope that RJ can understand that I offer her my sincerest apologies.

My anaylsis was, needless to say, quite incorrect, and she has been quite a bit nicer than she should have been about it. My ears should be ringing from here to Tuesday, but she has been nothing but the soul of kindness.

I'm afraid that I'm going to be going to work, but when I come back I'll revisit this thread, and respond to your letter more fully.

Thanks for your patience RJ,

Stupid Head Spherical Time

 

[RJHarmony84]

:o

Um, I think I'll just write a different poem, if that's ok...

This one is about a time I sat on my front porch when I was a child, watching a thunderstorm roll in--and listening to my parents fight inside...

After the beginning

Before the storm breaks,
I sit melancholy in the lamplight-
Fragile light that whispers
dark memories into my mind.
A cool breeze stalks by,
tossing my hair and hissing
softly through the trees.
I have survived one storm-
the angry roars like wind
the flashing eyes, the ominous rumbles;
the bitter curses hurled like stinging rain-
and so I sit, and wait as one storm passes
and another begins.



PS. Spherical Time is not a stupid head!