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TB doesn't lead that ministry anymore. His immorality wasn't tolerated, and he was removed.
Understand that an organization with Christian integrity will behave better than many secular organizations.
Thats the problem too often their standards are worse than secular organisations
No they aren't. Christian organizations operate using Godly principles.
Shonky? What is shonky?So I'm lying am I. My evidence of having encountered several 'christian ministries' with very shonky standards of practice, much worse than the secular equivalent must be false.
What ever,
Thou shall not put the cash cow in the barn. 2 Hezekiah 9:8I don't see how someone can be restored who is currently in the sin of adultery.
The way I understand it, unless bentley's former wife had committed fornication, would there be grounds for divorce. If she didn't, then he is in adultery, even more so with the recent marriage.
Please, anyone, feel free to break out the scriptures and correct me on this.
IMO, a disappointing response by both Grady and Joyner.
I am becoming disillusioned by charismatic ministries. I feel our leaders should be held to a very high standard. Scripture makes it very clear that those in a position of leadership should be held to a very high standard.
Yet, somehow just because you are a charismatic and have what appears to be great gifts, then you should be allowed to do whatever you want and not suffer any consequences.
Here's a guy who cheated on his wife (Last August) and then went through a divorce process that just ended.
As I've said several times now, we as laymen would be not given the same grace in our own churches that this man has been given by national leaders.
Look at the strict requirements of leadership written by the Apostle Paul:
I have sinned too, but am SO thankful for God's mercy and grace that triumphs over judgement.
Man oh man. Todd Bentley SINNED. What he did was wrong and immoral. Everyone gets that. As Christians, we should be praying for him. That is scriptural. Are we so perfect that we can sit in judgement on this man? I have sinned too, but am SO thankful for God's mercy and grace that triumphs over judgement.
People are praying for Todd Bentley.
People are giving him grace and mercy.
If a guy runs out on his family, and people call him to answer for that, does this mean they are not praying for him? Does it mean they have no grace or mercy?
What I want to know is ...
Since when did "mercy and grace" become the practice of pretending that sin does not exist, patting and petting people? When you were a child, and your mother found you doing something wrong, did she just give you a wink and a nod? Or perhaps was she ever angry?
I don't think people here on CF understand the severity of what Todd has done.
I really don't.
I don't think you've contemplated how his actions have hurt so many lives and destroyed so many people, first his ex-wife and children, then his ministry associates, and so on. I don't think you have taken the time to think about the results of Todd's actions on the lives of other people.
I think you are only concerned about how poor little Todd's going to get his feelings hurt if we come down too hard on him.
I have been through two major church scandals. I have seen countless lives torn apart by the stupid actions of preachers who did things that Todd Bentley did. It is easy to sit there and say "wow, let's just forgive him, grace and mercy, grace and mercy".
But that fails to recognize the process of restoration.
Restoration is painful. It's not like some walk in the park, BAM, Todd's restored, ob la di ob la da Life Goes On.
Restoration HURTS.
Restoration uncovers old wounds.
Restoration brings the worst to the surface, to be dealt with.
Restoration brings shocking awareness of one's own humanity.
Restoration pulls down the covers.
Restoration shows you how naked and how vulnerable and how weak you are.
Restoration requires a commitment.
Restoration brings tears.
Restoration means complete honesty and that everything is on the table.
Restoration is as stark a reality as you will ever face.
RESTORATION DOES NOT POINT FINGERS AT THOSE WHO CALL YOU INTO ACCOUNTABILITY, FOR WHEN YOUR HEART IS HUMBLED BEFORE GOD, THE ONLY WRONG OR SIN YOU CAN THINK OF IS YOUR OWN. WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO AND SAY IS THE FURTHEST THING FROM YOUR MIND -- BECAUSE YOU JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU GET RIGHT BEFORE GOD, NOT EVERYBODY ELSE ... JUST YOU
In one of the cases of the church scandals, I walked with the guy in relationship as God opened the door to me. I have seen over the last 18 years the struggles he has gone through as he has wanted to go back into the ministry, but has felt like a total failure. I have seen him open up to me as a friend [like a dad to me, and me like a son to him] as he told me that nobody in the church really tried to get in touch with him. I saw the times when he basically gave up on himself. I saw his bitter divorce and happy remarriage to his new wife. I saw his regrets, his cursing of himself, and his feelings of inadequacy. I saw a man go to some of his lowest points of life.
I am speaking from some very personal experience here.
God ran me into him when he felt like nobody else cared, and he told me I was the single lifeline that kept him afloat and going in the dark hours of the last two decades of his life as he has hashed out this moral failure and tried to move on from it.
To this day, it is hard for him to go back into the ministry.
I feel like my friend has gone through the true process of repentance, and then some. Although it does not take 18 years, my friend has spent all that time trying to make sense of what happened. God can restore a person very quickly.
Restoration is, more than anything, found in the context of RELATIONSHIP - relationship to God, and relationship to those who were hurt.
It's not about trying to make sure he hurries up and gets his stuff together so he can be a big preacher again, and this is where he makes his mistake. He needs to fix things between him and God, then him and his family, then him and his Canadian organization, then him and the body of Christ. That is the proper order.
I hope this did not come across too strongly.
But when I hear all this yelling on this forum about "grace and mercy" and easy repentance, and microwave restoration, and that Todd Bentley should not be called into some kind of accountability, and that anyone who pursues this accountability is the devil...
I remember back to my former days when I had never seen the dark side of restoration.
I remember when the church was ignorant in its bliss, that they spoke of restoration and repentance like they were ice cream and apple pie. They didn't have a clue what restoration and repentance really mean.
And anyone else who has walked though it knows exactly what I am talking about.
Remember the Prodigal son? Remember how much his restoration hurt him? Remember all the travail and grieving that took place? Remember how his father required him to publicly repent in front of everyone and display his remorse? Remember how the father lectured him about what he had done wrong and made him promise to be accountable never to do it again?
Oh wait, that's not what happened at all... remember how the father IMMEDIATELY ran to him while he was still a long way off and covered him with his embrace, BEFORE he repented, and then CLOTHED him with his very best robe and threw him a party? Remember how his brother reacted, because apparently his brother's restoration didn't hurt as much as he thought it should?
I think many times, we make the "process" far more laborious and involved than it needs to be. God can change your whole world forever, in an instant.
Oh wait, that's not what happened at all... remember how the father IMMEDIATELY ran to him while he was still a long way off and covered him with his embrace, BEFORE he repented, and then CLOTHED him with his very best robe and threw him a party?
People are praying for Todd Bentley.
People are giving him grace and mercy.
If a guy runs out on his family, and people call him to answer for that, does this mean they are not praying for him? Does it mean they have no grace or mercy?
What I want to know is ...
Since when did "mercy and grace" become the practice of pretending that sin does not exist, patting and petting people? When you were a child, and your mother found you doing something wrong, did she just give you a wink and a nod? Or perhaps was she ever angry?
I don't think people here on CF understand the severity of what Todd has done.
I really don't.
I don't think you've contemplated how his actions have hurt so many lives and destroyed so many people, first his ex-wife and children, then his ministry associates, and so on. I don't think you have taken the time to think about the results of Todd's actions on the lives of other people.
I think you are only concerned about how poor little Todd's going to get his feelings hurt if we come down too hard on him.
I have been through two major church scandals. I have seen countless lives torn apart by the stupid actions of preachers who did things that Todd Bentley did. It is easy to sit there and say "wow, let's just forgive him, grace and mercy, grace and mercy".
But that fails to recognize the process of restoration.
Restoration is painful. It's not like some walk in the park, BAM, Todd's restored, ob la di ob la da Life Goes On.
Restoration HURTS.
Restoration uncovers old wounds.
Restoration brings the worst to the surface, to be dealt with.
Restoration brings shocking awareness of one's own humanity.
Restoration pulls down the covers.
Restoration shows you how naked and how vulnerable and how weak you are.
Restoration requires a commitment.
Restoration brings tears.
Restoration means complete honesty and that everything is on the table.
Restoration is as stark a reality as you will ever face.
RESTORATION DOES NOT POINT FINGERS AT THOSE WHO CALL YOU INTO ACCOUNTABILITY, FOR WHEN YOUR HEART IS HUMBLED BEFORE GOD, THE ONLY WRONG OR SIN YOU CAN THINK OF IS YOUR OWN. WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO AND SAY IS THE FURTHEST THING FROM YOUR MIND -- BECAUSE YOU JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU GET RIGHT BEFORE GOD, NOT EVERYBODY ELSE ... JUST YOU
In one of the cases of the church scandals, I walked with the guy in relationship as God opened the door to me. I have seen over the last 18 years the struggles he has gone through as he has wanted to go back into the ministry, but has felt like a total failure. I have seen him open up to me as a friend [like a dad to me, and me like a son to him] as he told me that nobody in the church really tried to get in touch with him. I saw the times when he basically gave up on himself. I saw his bitter divorce and happy remarriage to his new wife. I saw his regrets, his cursing of himself, and his feelings of inadequacy. I saw a man go to some of his lowest points of life.
I am speaking from some very personal experience here.
God ran me into him when he felt like nobody else cared, and he told me I was the single lifeline that kept him afloat and going in the dark hours of the last two decades of his life as he has hashed out this moral failure and tried to move on from it.
To this day, it is hard for him to go back into the ministry.
I feel like my friend has gone through the true process of repentance, and then some. Although it does not take 18 years, my friend has spent all that time trying to make sense of what happened. God can restore a person very quickly.
Restoration is, more than anything, found in the context of RELATIONSHIP - relationship to God, and relationship to those who were hurt.
It's not about trying to make sure he hurries up and gets his stuff together so he can be a big preacher again, and this is where he makes his mistake. He needs to fix things between him and God, then him and his family, then him and his Canadian organization, then him and the body of Christ. That is the proper order.
I hope this did not come across too strongly.
But when I hear all this yelling on this forum about "grace and mercy" and easy repentance, and microwave restoration, and that Todd Bentley should not be called into some kind of accountability, and that anyone who pursues this accountability is the devil...
I remember back to my former days when I had never seen the dark side of restoration.
I remember when the church was ignorant in its bliss, that they spoke of restoration and repentance like they were ice cream and apple pie. They didn't have a clue what restoration and repentance really mean.
And anyone else who has walked though it knows exactly what I am talking about.
PPPllleeaase..He reasoned/repented within himself while still feeding the swine.
don't you think you're oversimplifying this parable just a LIL bit?
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