• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Site Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,340
9,285
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,223,341.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So true -- we are only told some things: the most crucial things -- everything we need to know for our salvation.

I often recommend (it comes to mind here) the wonderful Isaiah chapter 55, and not only because of the very helpful way it tells us we only know some things about God and not all, but for even better things: the wonderful messages in it.
 
Upvote 0

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Site Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,340
9,285
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,223,341.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But yes, it is worth pointing out that even the earlier forms of 'humans' (related earlier species, such as homo habilis) are only ~ 3 million years or less ago:

"The earliest documented representative of the genus Homo is Homo habilis, which evolved around 2.8 million years ago, and is arguably the earliest species for which there is positive evidence of the use of stone tools."

Staff Edit 3/27/2023
@Diamond7

Still, the broader question of how large Eden was, where, and so on -- really it seems entirely/solely a theological type question in my own view -- is interesting to discuss, even while it's going to have to include a lot of speculation probably. It really doesn't belong here in the physical sciences, but sure, there could be aspects of interest about ancient regions on Earth, for those that think the Garden of Eden was literally a literal place on Earth, instead of something like another dimension/place that was timeless and so on.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

Diamond72

Dispensationalist 72
Nov 23, 2022
8,303
1,521
73
Akron
✟57,931.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
It really doesn't belong here in the physical sciences
Eden in the Bible is where Ancient Mesopotamia was. We have a description in the Bible where four rivers flowed out of Eden. Two of the were the Tigris and Euphrates. We are told the Garden was in Eastern Eden which would be on the Euphrates river. They did not cross over to the other side.

Science has a LOT to tell us about Eden and our Bible. Right now there is a lot of underwater archeology going on in the Persian Gulf. Clearly, these are cities before Noah's flood. They would build on flood plain, so it is really no surprise that they would flood. The Bible tells us that Noah warned them for 120 years that there was going to be a flood but they did not believe him.
 
Upvote 0

Diamond72

Dispensationalist 72
Nov 23, 2022
8,303
1,521
73
Akron
✟57,931.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
really it seems entirely/solely a theological type question in my own view
The physical size of Eden had nothing to do with theology. It has everything to do with the chapter in our Biology book that talks about a Biodiverse Ecosystem. Also, there are PhD's in Botney that teach at the universities in Jerusalem that are experts on the ancient wild plants in the Middle East and how they became cultivated. The main difference between wild and cultivated is how the seeds are distributed. If that is done by man or nature. Plants produce seeds when they are mature.
 
Reactions: Halbhh
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,188
52,656
Guam
✟5,150,257.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The Bible tells us that Noah warned them for 120 years that there was going to be a flood but they did not believe him.

Perhaps they, like science does today, thought it was merely going to be a local one?
 
Upvote 0

Diamond72

Dispensationalist 72
Nov 23, 2022
8,303
1,521
73
Akron
✟57,931.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
I doubt there are 200,000 actual different books on Gen 1,
Did you ever read Genesis Chapter one? I have a book right here called: "The Songs of Trees". Genesis talks about the tree of life, the fig tree, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But JUST use the word TREE. There are likely thousands of books that have been written about trees, including guidebooks, field guides, scientific texts, and literary works.

Let's look at the very first verse in the Bible. 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Just the word beginning has hundreds of thousands of books written. The beginning of the universe, the beginning of time, the beginning of the earth, the beginning of mankind, the beginning of so many things. Just the word beginning would take 200,000 books and then you would just be getting started. How many books are there that just talk about the beginning of Physics?

There are many books on the beginning of physics, including its historical development and the scientific discoveries that contributed to its growth as a field. Here are a few examples:

  1. "The Beginning of Infinity: Explanations That Transform the World" by David Deutsch - This book explores the history of physics and its philosophical implications.
  2. "The First Three Minutes" by Steven Weinberg - This book discusses the early universe and the Big Bang, and how they relate to the development of physics.
  3. "The Birth of Particle Physics" by Laurie M. Brown - This book covers the history of particle physics from the early 1900s to the 1950s.
  4. "The First War of Physics: The Secret History of the Atom Bomb, 1939-1949" by Jim Baggott - This book tells the story of the race to build the atomic bomb and the scientific discoveries that made it possible.
These are just a few examples, and there are many more books on the subject depending on the specific aspects of the beginning of physics that you're interested in.

Do you realize that every letter in the Hebrew alphabet has a numeric value? IF you understand math, you would know it is impossible for a man alone to write the Bible.

 
Upvote 0

Diamond72

Dispensationalist 72
Nov 23, 2022
8,303
1,521
73
Akron
✟57,931.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Perhaps they, like science does today, thought it was merely going to be a local one?
Adam & Noah's world was Eden and we know all of Eden was flooded. Most likely still under water today.

Moses was from Egypt. He was well educated. Just like Abraham was well educated in the city of UR.
 
Upvote 0

Diamond72

Dispensationalist 72
Nov 23, 2022
8,303
1,521
73
Akron
✟57,931.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
In trying to understand the flow of time here, you have to remember that the entire Six Days is described in 31 sentences. The Six Days of Genesis, which have given people so many headaches are confined to 31 sentences! At MIT, in the Hayden library, we had about 50,000 books that deal with the development of the universe: cosmology, chemistry, thermodynamics, paleontology, archaeology, the high-energy physics of creation. Up the river at Harvard, at the Weidner library, they probably have 200,000 books on these same topics. The Bible gives us 31 sentences. Don't expect that by a simple reading of those sentences, you'll know every detail that is held within the text. It's obvious that we have to dig deeper to get the information out.

 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,188
52,656
Guam
✟5,150,257.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Adam & Noah's world was Eden and we know all of Eden was flooded. Most likely still under water today.

What did the Ark come to rest on then?
 
Reactions: Halbhh
Upvote 0

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Site Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,340
9,285
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,223,341.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What did the Ark come to rest on then?
Funny! If someone could find the Ark though it would cause a serious theological problem, in that God wants *Faith from us, *not* relying on evidence to believe.
 
Upvote 0

public hermit

social troglodyte
Site Supporter
Aug 20, 2019
12,672
13,496
East Coast
✟1,060,664.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

Could be it was a metaphor within a metaphor. I can't say if the Garden State is a metaphor. I mean, is New Jersey a garden?
 
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,835
4,737
✟353,044.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Could be it was a metaphor within a metaphor. I can't say if the Garden State is a metaphor. I mean, is New Jersey a garden?
No it isn't the state of Victoria is a garden and we have the archeological evidence to prove it.


The evidence.
 
Reactions: public hermit
Upvote 0

Diamond72

Dispensationalist 72
Nov 23, 2022
8,303
1,521
73
Akron
✟57,931.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
I mean, is New Jersey a garde
New Jersey seems to be about the size of Eden. Or ancient Mesopotamia. To give you an idea, the earliest civilization in Mesopotamia, Sumer, emerged around 4000 BCE and covered an area of about 15,000 square miles in southern Mesopotamia. New Jersey has an area of approximately 8,722 square miles. So Eden could have been bigger than New Jersey today. I am sure there are gardens in NJ, like there was a garden in Eden.
 
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,835
4,737
✟353,044.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You (or chatbot) seem to have conveniently forgotten Schroeder was thoroughly debunked in this thread.
 
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,188
52,656
Guam
✟5,150,257.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Funny! If someone could find the Ark though it would cause a serious theological problem, in that God wants *Faith from us, *not* relying on evidence to believe.

Unless it was dismantled to make Noah's homestead.
 
Reactions: Halbhh
Upvote 0

Diamond72

Dispensationalist 72
Nov 23, 2022
8,303
1,521
73
Akron
✟57,931.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Unless it was dismantled to make Noah's homestead.
I would think they would take it apart to build something else out of it. When they tore down the temple in Jerusalem they used the material to help build the coliseum. Where they had the blood sports.

 
Upvote 0

Diamond72

Dispensationalist 72
Nov 23, 2022
8,303
1,521
73
Akron
✟57,931.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Then Eden isn't still underwater, is it?
Genesis 2:10
And a river went out of Eden to water the garden;
and from thence it was parted and became into four heads.

The four rivers of Paradise are the Euphrates, the Tigris, the Gihon and the Pishon. They are first listed in Gen 2:10–14. They are conceived as flowing from the Garden of Eden towards the four corners of the earth in the four directions of the compass.
 
Upvote 0