Ecumenical worship?

[veggietales]

I am attending a conference/summer school and it says that the worship will be ecumenical and varied. Does anyone know what this means? I have never heard the term 'Ecumenical' before and would be greatful if someone could shed some light on the meaning.

Thanks

L~

 

[Buttermilk]

I'm surprised you haven't heard the term as I would have said it was a pretty common term.

Anyway my definition......

Ecumenical is when people of different denominations (Catholic, Protestant etc.) come together for a meeting or worship etc.

 

[veggietales]

Thank you, I have not been a christian long and im still learning christian terms. It is something i have never come across and just wondered what it was.

Thanks again

 

[Rick Otto]

Check out Apologetics Index for a fast update on most topics.
"A Christian Think Tank" is a pretty good site, too.

 

[Peter]

Ecumenical worship? An oxymoron. Someone has to be in charge. Or will they simply open the doors to a building and let everyone worship as he/she does? Will the Catholics be allowed to perform mass while the EO do Divine Liturgy while at the exact same time the multiple Protestant groups do whatever they want to do? Probably not. Someone will be in charge. There will be a praise band. They will sing choruses. It will not be ecumenical it the true sense. By their definition there will be no creeds (thus shutting out the EO), no prayers to Mary (eliminating the RCC), no mention of the change that occurs in Eucharist (there go the Lutherans, Presbyterians and Episcopals). This type of the use of the word ecumenical means wattered down Christianity.

There can be no true ecumenical worship until there is true ecumenicism. Ecumenical fellowship? Yes. Ecumenical worship? No.

Peace.

Peter

 

[veggietales]

Thank you for the insight Peter, this makes it clear. I can now make up my mind whether i will be involved or not.

Thanks everyone

 

[Buttermilk]

Ecumenical worship? An oxymoron. Someone has to be in charge. Or will they simply open the doors to a building and let everyone worship as he/she does? Will the Catholics be allowed to perform mass while the EO do Divine Liturgy while at the exact same time the multiple Protestant groups do whatever they want to do? Probably not. Someone will be in charge. There will be a praise band. They will sing choruses. It will not be ecumenical it the true sense. By their definition there will be no creeds (thus shutting out the EO), no prayers to Mary (eliminating the RCC), no mention of the change that occurs in Eucharist (there go the Lutherans, Presbyterians and Episcopals). This type of the use of the word ecumenical means wattered down Christianity.

There can be no true ecumenical worship until there is true ecumenicism. Ecumenical fellowship? Yes. Ecumenical worship? No.

Peace.

Peter

I'm sorry you feel that way, and I'm sorry you think it is watered down worship, but I don't agree with you. At the end of the day what is worship?

 

[Buttermilk]

Thank you for the insight Peter, this makes it clear. I can now make up my mind whether i will be involved or not.

Thanks everyone

Everyone is entitled to their opinion including Peter, but in this day and age when we want to build bridges rather than walls, we should all try to 'work' together harmoniously, after all who is truely correct. We will not find out in this life. Personally I think we are either all right or all wrong (if you know what I mean) that is each denomination is equal and it is all down to personal interpretation.

After all that I hope you do decide to become involved Veggietales

 

[Philip]

I'm sorry you feel that way, and I'm sorry you think it is watered down worship, but I don't agree with you. At the end of the day what is worship?

I think "watered-down Christianity" is a good term. In order to keep from offending certain groups, others must set asside their beliefs.

As Peter pointed out, we Orthodox can not conceive of a worship service that does not celebrate our unity in Christ. This necessarily includes the invocation of the Saints and the celebration of the Eucharist. Since you have not identified yourself as either Orthodox or Catholic, I presume you believe in neither seeking the intercession of the Saints nor the mysterious nature of the Eucharist. You might even find those belief offensive. For us to worship together, one of us must set aside his/her beliefs. What else whould you call that besides "watered-down"?

 

[Buttermilk]

I think "watered-down Christianity" is a good term. In order to keep from offending certain groups, others must set asside their beliefs.

No I don't think people should have to, and I don't think people should take offence at others practices either, as I say it is down to individual preferences. The big things are the same, we only differ with the smaller details. Do they really matter? Ok I may be living in dreamland but.....

As Peter pointed out, we Orthodox can not conceive of a worship service that does not celebrate our unity in Christ. This necessarily includes the invocation of the Saints and the celebration of the Eucharist. Since you have not identified yourself as either Orthodox or Catholic, I presume you believe in neither seeking the intercession of the Saints nor the mysterious nature of the Eucharist. You might even find those belief offensive. For us to worship together, one of us must set aside his/her beliefs. What else whould you call that besides "watered-down"?

I don't mean to sound rude, but you're right I don't state anything about myself therefore you do not know anything about me. For the record not I am not Catholic or Orthodox but that does not mean I find your beliefs offensive, and for the record I don't find them offensive.

I have been in many Catholic churches, and do not have a problem (have never been in an Orthodox one because the occassion has never arisen ( and to be honest I do not know where there are any in Scotland although I am sure there is one somewhere).

One reason I do not mention denomination is for that very reason, I think we should all be working together and I do not care what denomination you are

 

[1John5:3]

I am attending a conference/summer school and it says that the worship will be ecumenical and varied. Does anyone know what this means? I have never heard the term 'Ecumenical' before and would be greatful if someone could shed some light on the meaning.

Thanks

L~

Ecumenical means the Protestant Reformation in reverse.

 

[Philip]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion including Peter, but in this day and age when we want to build bridges rather than walls,

As Peter pointed out, we can build bridges through ecumenical fellowship and dialogue without sacrificing our beliefs.

we should all try to 'work' together harmoniously,

At the what price? How far are you willing to extend this? Whould it be acceptable to include an Islamic Iman as one of the worship leaders?

after all who is truely correct. We will not find out in this life. Personally I think we are either all right or all wrong (if you know what I mean) that is each denomination is equal and it is all down to personal interpretation.

I am afraid that it is too relativistic. Again, how far are you willing to let this go? Would you include someone who thinks the Bible is just "a nice collection of stories, but probably not true"? After all, according to your statement, we really don't know who is truely correct and it is a matter of personal interpretation.

 

[Philip]

Ecumenical means the Protestant Reformation in reverse.

In what way?

 

[Peter]

Okay then, lets begin looking at the big, important issues. For we Orthodox, the elements of Holy Eucharist ARE the body and blood of Christ and are needed for our salvation. Do you agree with this?

Peace.

Peter

 

[Rick Otto]

I share Reformationist doctrine as far as TULIP goes, but not on ecclesiology, esp. in the area of discipline.
I DO find invocation of the saints & transubstantion 'offensive' but not personaly.
I'd agree we are the body of Christ in a figurative sense, but I would disagree that we are His blood in any sense.
At least I can't THINK of any scriptures that reveal that.
Anyway, I believe the hotbed & HQ of ecumenism to be The Lausanne Committee.
http://www.gospelcom.net/lcwe/index.html
or just Google "Lausanne Committe"
I see ecumenism as valuing unity over doctrinal truth.
I see some 'good' things result from 'practical ecumenism' like "wholesome" entertainment alternatives being offered, but even then, the differing standards(doctrines) will eventualy find fault lines between them.
I believe that with enough of the Holy Spirit in us, we will produce fruit like wholesome entertainment, anyway. The unity ecuminists seem to be seeking is a concrete facade that will provide tangible evidence for them that the body is inDEEd, unified.
I don't need tangible evidence.
So I idon't need a rigid hierarchy with an infallible leader, tiaras, or pinky rings(lol).
(Please don't regard this as personal insult, or if you must, please forgive me, & if you can't, please feel free to respond in kind because I certainly won't take it personaly or regard it too seriously, and I love sarcasm even when it's aimed at me, if it's executed w/any style that is. Plus I welcome rebuke that I at LEast ocCAIsionally deserve, & I appreciate everyone's patience with me in that regard- thanks.)
So I see ecumenism like Isreal saw having a king.
It's wanting everyone to feel good about each other in spite of fundamental differences, as if a 'group hug' will make them go away. Isreal thought having a king, a visible(concrete) sign(facade), would secure them as a nation.
As far as offensive doctrines & behaviors go, I figger ev'ybody gives up the right to take things too personaly as soon as they enter a public forum.
I believe it's the Bouncer's floor, and I just accept it as the price of freedom. If it was MY floor, I would rule it like a "benevolent dictator" I would hope.

 

[Buttermilk]

As Peter pointed out, we can build bridges through ecumenical fellowship and dialogue without sacrificing our beliefs.

No one (well not me anyway ) is asking you to sacrifice your beliefs, you are as entitled to yours as I am to mine.

At the what price? How far are you willing to extend this? Whould it be acceptable to include an Islamic Iman as one of the worship leaders?




I am afraid that it is too relativistic. Again, how far are you willing to let this go? Would you include someone who thinks the Bible is just "a nice collection of stories, but probably not true"? After all, according to your statement, we really don't know who is truely correct and it is a matter of personal interpretation.

No I was refering to Christians only in this particular context. I also meant we do not know which denomination if any is truely correct, or are they all correct.

But on the other hand yes all groups should be working together to promote harmony

 

[Peter]

I also meant we do not know which denomination if any is truely correct,

If this is true, then truth is dead and God is a liar.

or are they all correct.

Universalism, and Christianity is again proved to be false.

Sorry, don't buy it. After 35 years, I could no longer stomach the Reformationist revisionist definitions of Christ's church. And now that I do know where the right path is, I've taken it.

Peace.

Peter

 

[Philip]

No I was refering to Christians only in this particular context. I also meant we do not know which denomination if any is truely correct, or are they all correct.

Would you include those who call themselves Christian, but deny the Divinity of Christ?

 

[Buttermilk]

If this is true, then truth is dead and God is a liar.

I never said that. Ok I maybe wasn't very clear, what I meant was that no denomination is 100% correct, but neither are they 100% wrong

Universalism, and Christianity is again proved to be false.

Sorry, don't buy it. After 35 years, I could no longer stomach the Reformationist revisionist definitions of Christ's church. And now that I do know where the right path is, I've taken it.

Peace.

Peter

The right path for you, and that is fair enough, if we were all the same the world would be a boring place (it may be harmonious, but boring ). Every denomination has good points and bad points.

Or are you infering that those of us who don't subscribe wholly to your particular doctrine are going to hell?

 

[Buttermilk]

Would you include those who call themselves Christian, but deny the Divinity of Christ?

I would say that is a contradiction in terms.

If anyone subscribes to a particular club (for example) but doesn't adhere to the rules of the club, then there is no point in being a member of the club, and are they a true member of that club in that instance anyway - same applies to religion.