What, according to the Orthodox perspective, is necessary for an ecumenical council? What makes a council ecumenical?
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Ecumenical Councils
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For there to be an ecumenical council (well, back in the day that is) it must be called by the Roman Emperor. Well, with the fall of the Roman Emprie in Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks in 1545 AD, that's kinda difficult now. None of the Patriarchs have the authority to call an ecumenical council, plus with the schisms that exist between Christian communities it makes it impossible. Remember ecumenical Councils were called to bring an end to heresy and develop Chrurch dogma. The Orthodox Church has pointed out heresies and developed the dogma of the Church.
But it has been over 1000 years since the last ecumenical council. Since then there have been alot of changes in our world and society. Some think with the fast changing 21st century, there are calls for another ecumenical council. I ask, do we really need another one? If people get a chance to read the canons of the 7 ecumenical councils along with the minutes from those minutes, the Holy Fathers of the Orthodox Church did not forget a thing.
But at the same time, we Orthodox Christians, maintain a balance between our free will and God's will. We do not take a legalistic approarch to the Faith as our Catholic bretheren or skewed completely to the other side as our Protestant Churches, but have put our trust in our faithful communities.
But it has been over 1000 years since the last ecumenical council. Since then there have been alot of changes in our world and society. Some think with the fast changing 21st century, there are calls for another ecumenical council. I ask, do we really need another one? If people get a chance to read the canons of the 7 ecumenical councils along with the minutes from those minutes, the Holy Fathers of the Orthodox Church did not forget a thing.
But at the same time, we Orthodox Christians, maintain a balance between our free will and God's will. We do not take a legalistic approarch to the Faith as our Catholic bretheren or skewed completely to the other side as our Protestant Churches, but have put our trust in our faithful communities.
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Dear Pax;
By Orthodox Standards, I think everything that we need to get on with our lives in within the 7 ecumenical councils. We don't need anything else. All Christian Groups are aware of what the Orthodox believes, and that we Orthodox believers contain the Truth within us. Why do we need another ecumenical council. You cannot add anymore (like the Church of Rome) to the Turth in which we believe or take away (such as the Protestant Churches).
By Orthodox Standards, I think everything that we need to get on with our lives in within the 7 ecumenical councils. We don't need anything else. All Christian Groups are aware of what the Orthodox believes, and that we Orthodox believers contain the Truth within us. Why do we need another ecumenical council. You cannot add anymore (like the Church of Rome) to the Turth in which we believe or take away (such as the Protestant Churches).
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Philip said:
Sorry to bump this thread back up, but what exactly would constitute the entire Church? Even within Churches some bishops could refuse to accept a council. If one bishop disagreed would that cause a council to not be ecumenical or is it more complicated than that?
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What consitutes the entire Church? it all depends on who you ask 
Only the Orthodox Church keeps the 7 Ecumenical Councils as they are. Nothing added to them or anything taken away... hey... kinda like the Truth.
Only the Orthodox Church keeps the 7 Ecumenical Councils as they are. Nothing added to them or anything taken away... hey... kinda like the Truth.
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Philip
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pax said:
It is more complicated than that. There was one council (I'll have to look up which one) that nearly all of the bishops accepted. However, it was completely rejected by the laity. Thus, the council was not ecumenical. You must remember that when the Orthodox say "the Church", they do not just the bishops or just the clergy.
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Philip said:
I assumed the laity were still considered part of the "Church," but I didn't think they were usually given a vote in an ecumenical council. That definition seems rather ambiguous, however. I'm guessing that every single person didn't accept every single canon of the first 7 ecumenical council when they were first issued. The Arian heresy crept into the some parts of the Church prior to Nicea. I'm guessing not every Arian converted and accepted the result. Since an Ecumenical Council requires ratification by the entire Church wouldn't the Arians make it null and void since even though they were wrong there was no official definition of what Scripture and Tradition actually said making their status as members of the Church rather uncertain?
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MariaRegina
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Pax,
The laity include the monks. It was the monastics who taught the laity when they came to the monastery for spiritual guidance and education. Confession in the Orthodox church can be made to a monk or nun who are not in orders; however, in that case, it is the Priest who gives absolution upon recommendation of the monastics.
Many monks were highly educated but refused Holy Orders as they felt unworthy and did not want to be burdened with the duties of a parish.
Hope this helps.
The laity include the monks. It was the monastics who taught the laity when they came to the monastery for spiritual guidance and education. Confession in the Orthodox church can be made to a monk or nun who are not in orders; however, in that case, it is the Priest who gives absolution upon recommendation of the monastics.
Many monks were highly educated but refused Holy Orders as they felt unworthy and did not want to be burdened with the duties of a parish.
Hope this helps.
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MTown:
For there to be an ecumenical council (well, back in the day that is) it must be called by the Roman Emperor. Well, with the fall of the Roman Emprie in Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks in 1545 AD, that's kinda difficult now.
Actually, just a quick correction:
If it is necessary (or Traditional) to have the Orthodox Emperor (i.e. Emperor of Rome) call the council, then this was possible until 1917, since the Byzantine traditions and spiritual authority of the Emperor were passed on part and parcel to Muscovy with the fall of Byzantium. So still not possible, but more recently so.
I was recently debating that idea in my mind, the thought of an ecumenical council perhaps to add a few texts to the New Testament or just add them in a New New Testament of some sort, since there are many writings of the apostles and Church fathers that could be considered an integral part of our faith. Only problem is, something like that would forever split the other Churches from the Orthodox, and we would be called the reformers and alterers, perhaps even heretics. So until we acheive some sort of unification, it's a really bad idea.
For there to be an ecumenical council (well, back in the day that is) it must be called by the Roman Emperor. Well, with the fall of the Roman Emprie in Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks in 1545 AD, that's kinda difficult now.
Actually, just a quick correction:
If it is necessary (or Traditional) to have the Orthodox Emperor (i.e. Emperor of Rome) call the council, then this was possible until 1917, since the Byzantine traditions and spiritual authority of the Emperor were passed on part and parcel to Muscovy with the fall of Byzantium. So still not possible, but more recently so.
I was recently debating that idea in my mind, the thought of an ecumenical council perhaps to add a few texts to the New Testament or just add them in a New New Testament of some sort, since there are many writings of the apostles and Church fathers that could be considered an integral part of our faith. Only problem is, something like that would forever split the other Churches from the Orthodox, and we would be called the reformers and alterers, perhaps even heretics. So until we acheive some sort of unification, it's a really bad idea.
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There is a prophecy of an eighth ecumenical council....
More Prophecies on the 8th Ecumenical Council, the Great Monarch and the Great Bishop
As mentioned in an earlier section, many Catholic prophecies speak of a return to the True Catholic Faith. Many Eastern Orthodox prophecies speak of a return to the True Orthodox Faith. Are the prophecies of either faith incorrect? Of course not! While there will be concessions made on all sides in returning to a unified Church based on Apostolic Traditions, I believe that the Catholic and Orthodox prophecies speak of ‘a one, unified catholic and apostolic church’ that is different that the present state of the Roman Church today, but its teachings and liturgies will parallel that of the Eastern Church. Protestantism will disappear. The hindrance of all sides for unification will be the infallibility doctrine of the Pope. After this doctrine is removed, the major obstruction for reunification will no longer exist, and all sides will sit down to iron out their differences.
While first comparing this prophecy to the Eastern Orthodox ones, it appears that they are conflicting. However, upon further examination we find that they actually are in agreement with one another. The Eastern prophecies speak of a single Patriarch after a cessation of the present state of the Papacy. However, the Single Patriarch mentioned in the Eastern texts also may be referring to this leader. The Catholic prophecies use the term ‘Pope’ to describe the head of the Church, while the Eastern Orthodox prophecies refer to a ‘Patriarch’ to describe the head of their church. Both the Catholic prophecies and Orthodox prophecies speak of a unified church, a single head of the church figure, a future saintly king ruling from Constantinople and the destruction of Rome. It is no mistake that the Catholic Prophet St. Malachi speaks of the next Pope will be the 'Glory of the Olive Branch'. No other Popes except Peter the Roman (Petrus Romanus) are listed. It is believed that Peter the Roman will be seated on the ecclesiastical throne at the end of time, during a severe persecution of Christians. Thus we can conclude that the next pope after Pope John Paul (barring an Antipope, some Catholic prophecies speak of an Anti-Pope before the Great Bishop comes) will be the one who extends an conciliatory 'olive branch' to the Eastern Orthodox Churches.
The Eastern prophecies indicate the dismissal of the Papal Infallibility doctrine, the spreading of Eastern Christian Theology throughout the West, and a Single Patriarch presiding over the entire European Continent. The Western Catholic prophecies speak of a Great Pope, under protection of the angels, who will unite the Eastern and Western Churches. Are these two distinct people playing a separate role? Or ARE THEY IN FACT THE SAME PERSON!!! Both the Eastern and Western prophecies are described as being guided by Angels. Both the Eastern and Western prophecies speak of a future king/pastor who will be revealed through a celestial prodigy in the heavens.
I may be making incorrect assumptions with regards to the process of Unification, however, I provide these prophetic clips to the reader to aid in their research and to draw their own conclusions.
St. Nelios the Myrrh-Gusher (Died 1592)
(He lived in the village of St Peter in Peloponnesus, Greece)
"… During that time the eighth and last Ecumenic Synod will take place, which will pacify the contentions of the Heretics, it will separate the wheat from the chaff, and the right doctrine from the false doctrine, and for the short length of fifty years there will be peace upon the earth. Afterwards they will turn again towards evil and they will go to their perdition."
Father Laurence Ricci (Died 1775)
"(… At a gathering of men noted for piety and wisdom, the (the Great Monarch) will, with the aid of the Pope, introduce new rules, and ban the spirit of confusion. Everywhere there will be one fold and one shepherd."
This prophecy appears to refer to the gathering of the 8th Ecumenical Council.
I would like to put the web site, but I am new here...and I need to do more postings.....
Wonderful place here, ....
helen....
More Prophecies on the 8th Ecumenical Council, the Great Monarch and the Great Bishop
As mentioned in an earlier section, many Catholic prophecies speak of a return to the True Catholic Faith. Many Eastern Orthodox prophecies speak of a return to the True Orthodox Faith. Are the prophecies of either faith incorrect? Of course not! While there will be concessions made on all sides in returning to a unified Church based on Apostolic Traditions, I believe that the Catholic and Orthodox prophecies speak of ‘a one, unified catholic and apostolic church’ that is different that the present state of the Roman Church today, but its teachings and liturgies will parallel that of the Eastern Church. Protestantism will disappear. The hindrance of all sides for unification will be the infallibility doctrine of the Pope. After this doctrine is removed, the major obstruction for reunification will no longer exist, and all sides will sit down to iron out their differences.
While first comparing this prophecy to the Eastern Orthodox ones, it appears that they are conflicting. However, upon further examination we find that they actually are in agreement with one another. The Eastern prophecies speak of a single Patriarch after a cessation of the present state of the Papacy. However, the Single Patriarch mentioned in the Eastern texts also may be referring to this leader. The Catholic prophecies use the term ‘Pope’ to describe the head of the Church, while the Eastern Orthodox prophecies refer to a ‘Patriarch’ to describe the head of their church. Both the Catholic prophecies and Orthodox prophecies speak of a unified church, a single head of the church figure, a future saintly king ruling from Constantinople and the destruction of Rome. It is no mistake that the Catholic Prophet St. Malachi speaks of the next Pope will be the 'Glory of the Olive Branch'. No other Popes except Peter the Roman (Petrus Romanus) are listed. It is believed that Peter the Roman will be seated on the ecclesiastical throne at the end of time, during a severe persecution of Christians. Thus we can conclude that the next pope after Pope John Paul (barring an Antipope, some Catholic prophecies speak of an Anti-Pope before the Great Bishop comes) will be the one who extends an conciliatory 'olive branch' to the Eastern Orthodox Churches.
The Eastern prophecies indicate the dismissal of the Papal Infallibility doctrine, the spreading of Eastern Christian Theology throughout the West, and a Single Patriarch presiding over the entire European Continent. The Western Catholic prophecies speak of a Great Pope, under protection of the angels, who will unite the Eastern and Western Churches. Are these two distinct people playing a separate role? Or ARE THEY IN FACT THE SAME PERSON!!! Both the Eastern and Western prophecies are described as being guided by Angels. Both the Eastern and Western prophecies speak of a future king/pastor who will be revealed through a celestial prodigy in the heavens.
I may be making incorrect assumptions with regards to the process of Unification, however, I provide these prophetic clips to the reader to aid in their research and to draw their own conclusions.
St. Nelios the Myrrh-Gusher (Died 1592)
(He lived in the village of St Peter in Peloponnesus, Greece)
"… During that time the eighth and last Ecumenic Synod will take place, which will pacify the contentions of the Heretics, it will separate the wheat from the chaff, and the right doctrine from the false doctrine, and for the short length of fifty years there will be peace upon the earth. Afterwards they will turn again towards evil and they will go to their perdition."
Father Laurence Ricci (Died 1775)
"(…
At a gathering of men noted for piety and wisdom, the (the Great Monarch) will, with the aid of the Pope, introduce new rules, and ban the spirit of confusion. Everywhere there will be one fold and one shepherd."This prophecy appears to refer to the gathering of the 8th Ecumenical Council.
I would like to put the web site, but I am new here...and I need to do more postings.....
Wonderful place here, ....
helen....
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