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As if he didn't wait until 140 pages had been filled with answers.Simon's not interested in answers, I'm afraid. He asked a question on another thread then asked the thread to be closed.
Why posit a strawman?quote=Anglian;Dear Simon,
Why posit a dichotomy?
Why can man's artistic talent, given him by God, not be consecrated to His service and glory?
How very sad it must be to read the words of God & not obey.How very sad it must be not to be able to enter into somewhere like Notre Dame Cathedral and not to feel the love poured out by hundreds of craftsmen to the Lord God.
So "we all" say.We all use what talents we have been given for the Lord.
God may just have it wrong?Those who insist on telling others that they are doing wrong when they make a beautiful object to show their love for God, might consider for a moment that they may just have it wrong.
I think I begin to understand my instinctive recoil from some types of Protestantism; anything which destroys beauty in the name of God makes me uneasy.
Hello Rick,Yea, hath God said, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,"? For God doth know that in the day ye graven thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, venerating good.
Montalban's not interested in reality, only distortions thereof.
As if he didn't wait until 140 pages had been filled with answers.
I've never come across an Orthodox Church with an organ, but if my priest were saying such things, I'd have a nice quiet word with him afterwards, as would the rest of the parish, because he'd need it. The Orthodox do not have statues in their Churches either, neither do we hold with any notion of inanimate objects being possessed.Please allow me to interject a couple of questions. What would you think if your priest insisted that the spirit of Saint Cecilia spoke through the organ as it was being played and that the beloved saint lived in that organ? Or that the statues in the church contained the spirits of the saints and that the crucifix contained Christ, as evidenced by it shedding genuine tears and blood?
Yes, these same arguments were advanced by the iconclasts, and eventually rejected by the Church. That's why I am failing to understand Somon's citing of an earlier Council which was overruled by a later one, whose verdict has been accepted by the Church ever since.The issue was not that of destroying items of objective beauty, but the same which led King Josiah to destroy all the great works of art in Jerusalem in the name of eliminating idolatry and superstition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_the_JustAnd so he suffered martyrdom; and they buried him on the spot, and the pillar erected to his memory still remains, close by the temple. This man was a true witness to both Jews and Greeks that Jesus is the Christ.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf201.iii.xii.xix.htmlFor they say that the woman with an issue of blood, who, as we learn from the sacred Gospel,22972297 See Matt. ix. 20 sq. received from our Saviour deliverance from her affliction, came from this place, and that her house is shown in the city, and that remarkable memorials of the kindness of the Saviour to her remain there. 2. For there stands upon an elevated stone, by the gates of her house, a brazen image of a woman kneeling, with her hands stretched out, as if she were praying. Opposite this is another upright image of a man, made of the same material, clothed decently in a double cloak, and extending his hand toward the woman. At his feet, beside the statue itself,22982298 οὗ παρὰ τοῖς ποσὶν ἐπὶ τῆς στήλης αὐτῆς. This is commonly translated at his feet, upon the pedestal; but, as Heinichen remarks, in the excursus referred to just above, the plant can hardly have grown upon the pedestal, and what is more, we have no warrant for translating στήλη pedestal. Paulus, in his commentary on Matthew in loco, maintains that Eusebius is speaking only of a representation upon the base of the statue, not of an actual plant. But this interpretation, as Heinichen shows, is quite unwarranted. For the use of ἐπὶ in the sense of near or beside, we have numerous examples (see the instances given by Heinichen, and also Liddell and Scotts Greek Lexicon, s.v.). is a certain strange plant, which climbs up to the hem of the brazen cloak, and is a remedy for all kinds of diseases.
Dear bbbbbbb,
You ask:
I've never come across an Orthodox Church with an organ, but if my priest were saying such things, I'd have a nice quiet word with him afterwards, as would the rest of the parish, because he'd need it. The Orthodox do not have statues in their Churches either, neither do we hold with any notion of inanimate objects being possessed.
Yes, these same arguments were advanced by the iconclasts, and eventually rejected by the Church. That's why I am failing to understand Somon's citing of an earlier Council which was overruled by a later one, whose verdict has been accepted by the Church ever since.
Those who feel they have enough insight into the thinking of others to know that they are really 'worshipping idols' worry me; how do they obtain this insight - mind reading - or just some arrogant assumption they know best? Either way, it looks like an ugly phenomenon producing sad results.
Peace,
Anglian
Dear bbbbbbb,
I appreciate your engagement with this one, and where you are coming from.
What I find difficult to understand is how those Reformer knew what the motives of other people were? I would be fearful of pride being involved here, and a sense of being, if you like, 'holier than thou'. It seems like setting yourself up to judge what others are doing and thinking, assuming that you, yourself, are in some way immune from the sin you attribute to others - but perhaps ignoring the other sin to which you might be succumbing?
I do not doubt the sincerity of iconoclasts - just their humility. If the veneration of a statue of the Blessed Virgin gave people comfort and a way of concentrating their prayer, who were the Reformers to tell them they were worshipping a statue and smash it up? It is this mentality which I have a real problem grasping, I fear.
Peace,
Anglian
Jesus was here as a man, not as an image of one. Now do you understand?
Perhaps if you read some of John of Damascus' work on the use of images.Superstition isn't as easily hidden as say, the difference between latria & dulia might be.
Discerning the hearts of others isn't the same as judging them. Be wise as serpents & innocent as doves.
Did he fully portray/appear as God? Yes/No?He didn't portray himself by taking an image. He incarnated Himself.
That again!I don't pretend to know something the scriptures don't support.
I have many.Perhaps if you read what the Bible has to say. Do you have one?
He didn't portray himself by taking an image. He incarnated Himself.
I don't pretend to know something the scriptures don't support.
Perhaps if you read what the Bible has to say. Do you have one?
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