Ecclesiastes

[hopeinGod714]

Hi all,

I read the book of Ecclesiastes in it's entirety today and must say that it was a rather somber book on how the perception of life. As someone making strivings to recover from anxiety and depression, I'd like some of your view points on this book of the Bible. After reading it, one of the main points I took away was that things on this Earth in and of themselves are empty and hollow but we must commit ourselves to God and strive to enjoy them anyway. Please help me out as I wrestle with this. I'm going to pray and meditate on it some more and then maybe give it another read lol

 

[AWorkInProgress]

Yeah I love that book.

Like 'Hey there, your leaving this earth with what you came into it with. Look at all that stuff you been collecting and working hard for. IT AIN'T going with you!'.

Yet Solomon says makes a small yet powerful point.

Ecclesiastes 2:24-25 (NIV, Bold added)
24 A person can do nothing better than to eat and drink and find satisfaction in their own toil. This too, I see, is from the hand of God, 25 for without him, who can eat or find enjoyment?

Like in the middle of these difficult days. I can find satisfaction with my job and be thankful for what I DO have.

Good example.

Even though I work really hard with few hours at a Taco Bell(cause no luck finding better job right now) and my wife is ill so she can't work for now. Yet we never go hungry at all, the Lord faithfully keeps us from being evicted(while tithing too), and my relationship with my wife is awesome. I told my wife Life is great, just missing the car, house, and great paying career. haha

I could go nuts because it seems like we aren't making any movement in 'advancement' in this world. Yet I find satisfaction in what I can do for now. I serve many people and I make their dining experience a joy. Years ago I was never satisfied yet I was working the full time, with good pay, and a Jeep.

 

[LWB]

Life is just a game we play. Work, family, toys - none of it is real. It will all pass away like a dream. Sometimes it can become a nightmare, but the good news is we can wake up. Jesus came into the world to wake us up.

I know a lot of people cannot accept this message. It feels too real, but so does any dream in which you find yourself. The teacher of Ecclesiastes set out to explore the limits of pleasure and ambition, and he concluded that everything is in vain. He had vast wealth and knowledge, but none of it could make him happy.

His teaching is meant to liberate us. It is good news! Maybe not for those who have much invested in this World, but for those of us who the World has always hated, we know our home is elsewhere. No longer have we to be a slaves of pleasure, pain, fear, sorrow. We can still appreciate the experience, and admire the beauty of God's artistry, but we know the experience in and of itself is not meant to fulfill us. Only God can satisfy our yearning desire.

For whatever reason God has given us this experience. It is meant to teach us something very important. Something we might not be fully aware of until beyond death.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

Solomon was a very depressed individual.

 

[hopeinGod714]

Thanks LWB and in a way thanks SoldierofSoul..I guess it is a call for optimism in whatever phase of your life you are in and a realization that genuine truth, love and glory exist beyond this world but we can still hold to these things when God lets us

 

[hopeinGod714]

Didn't see your response 'Aworkinprogress' thank you for that testimony

 

[heron]

It's depressing, but think about him writing this after decades of enjoying incredible success. Highs and lows. He had international fame, continual empire growth, all the resources he'd ever need... and probably hit a point where he didn't know what was left to strive for.

When I am low, the "striving for" issue is what ultimately drives me down or back up again -- create little projects for oneself can get that moving.

 

[JonathanP]

I actually love Ecclesiastes, I can relate to so much that is said, and I really don't find it depressing. It just depends on how you look at it. The book shows how meaningless life is without God and a hope beyond this life.

This was from a man who had everything (more than anyone) from a worldly perspective, wealth, power, sensual pleasures and achievements, and was also given great wisdom to interpret it all, and at the end concludes these things are meaningless and will never satisfy us. Yet these are the things we naturally chase after in the hopes that they will give us what we are missing. We can save ourselves a lot of time and pain, by learning from Solomon's experiences.

I need to be continually reminded of this message (this thread has been a good reminder) and I find it motivates me to pursue the things that really matter.

There are also some wonderful passages that come to mind when I think of this book:

1:2 - "Meaningless! Meaningless! says the Teacher..."
3:1 - Time and season for all things
12:13 - Conclusion of the matter

I also love 11:4 - "He who observes the wind will not sow, and he who regards the clouds will not reap." Good practical wisdom for life - "seize the day"!

 

[aldar]

Alot of people do not accept this but some christians and bible scholars believe that the book of Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon while he was in a backslidden state. Such as when he gave himself to harlots, wine, drunkeness and anything else he wanted before he came back to God. This did happen.

Alot of the book at face value is in great contrast with other biblical principles such as VANITY, ALL IS VANITY... well the rest of the bible doesn't say that at all does it? No it doesn't. Though alot of people have gone to great lengths to understand the book of Ecclesiastes as if it were completely written by God's influence and completely true and that leads a plethora of complexities.

Just keep in mind that there are people who believe a very sinful backslidden Solomon wrote that book and not everything it states is the truth. That does not mean the book is not "inspired" or breathed on by God and intended to help us in our walk with God. Instead of trying to rationalize how ALL the things in the book are true... some people choose to believe certain statements aren't true at all but that God still had a purpose for it.

Just throwing that out there.

 

[JonathanP]

Alot of the book at face value is in great contrast with other biblical principles such as VANITY, ALL IS VANITY... well the rest of the bible doesn't say that at all does it? No it doesn't.

Well life really is just vanity, if we are looking at it from an atheistic perspective (or just on the premise that this life is all there is).

Nothing will last. The greatest achievements will be forgotten eventually. This is what Solomon is saying and the fact is that many people are often so busy going about their lives and trying to keep body and soul together that they may not give it much thought.

Whether Solomon is writing in a backslidden depressed state or just adopting that position for the sake of the argument is an interesting question to think about. In either case with Solomon's wisdom and experiences he certainly has the authority to argue that the temporal things we pursue (although not necessarily bad in themselves) will never satisfy us on their own.

 

[aldar]

Well if were supposed to read those words from an Atheistic perspective then I'm right... the statement isn't true and isn't supposed to be.

Nothing will last, from a certain point of view maybe... but the absolute that nothing will last is completely untrue, for instance we are storing up goods in heavon, permanent rewards and investments, our work in the work of Christ here on earth is not vanity and it does have eternal and forever implications and rewards. and when does God ever tell us to adopt a mindset of apathy, vanity and that our actions don't have permanent implications or rewards?

In the end many like myself find these simple statements irreconcilable to the rest of the bible. I was not saying I am absolutely right, it's just an idea. That Solomon could have very easily written this during his time of great sin is a very clear possibility also.

It's just an idea.

 

[heron]

Alot of the book at face value is in great contrast with other biblical principles such as VANITY, ALL IS VANITY... well the rest of the bible doesn't say that at all does it? ... as if it were completely written by God's influence and completely true and that leads a plethora of complexities.

That is an important observation. When people teach that the entire Bible is handed down as one direct word from God, it leads to a lot of confusion and disillusionment.

The Bible was written over a spread of time, by/through different personalities with different experiences. All of the penmen were sinners, and it is a wonderful example of how God chooses to send His power through these cracked pipes of our lives. The compilation has continued to inspire millions for centuries.

People quote Timothy's "All scripture is inspired and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness" verse; "by God" is built into the word "inspired." Ecclesiastes was considered a book of wisdom -- something to learn from and reflect on.

The New Testament had not yet been written/canonized when II Timothy was written, and the OT was treated as a collection of groupings, not one book. Timothy was referring to the Torah, the Prophets, the books of wisdom...

It is not a shameful thing to look at Ecclesiastes with reflection, to appreciate phases in life and the results of what attitudes developed after indulgence and power. We can still leave open the concept of God speaking directly through these words, while seeing it as indirect advice for reflection.

As you say, there are statements in it that conflict with other scriptural teachings. If we claim that every word is flawless, that sets us up for religiosity and arguments about conflicts.

 

[Walter Kovacs]

Ecclesiastes is brilliant. It completely anticipates modern philosophy...3000 years ago. Brilliant book. Sobering, to be sure, but that is to be expected of a book written entirely to show how pointless life without God is.

The author really shows his humanity...he grapples with some tough questions. It's a very real book.