"Eastern Rite Anglicanism" - does it exist?

[MichaelNZ]

I'm curious to know if there is such a thing as "Eastern Rite Anglicanism", that is, Anglican churches which are fully Anglican (in communion with Canterbury) but that use an Eastern rite of worship (Byzantine, Coptic, Chaldean etc) and have their churches arranged in an Eastern way (Iconostasis etc).

If there is no such thing, do you think it should exist? I heard a while ago that an Anglican priest I had met several years ago had recently converted to Orthodoxy. The previous parish priest at that church had also been an Anglican who had converted to Orthodoxy. So it seems that there are conversions happening. Do you think that an Eastern Rite Anglican church with the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom would be an option for those Anglicans who have entered Orthodoxy?

 

[Albion]

I'm curious to know if there is such a thing as "Eastern Rite Anglicanism", that is, Anglican churches which are fully Anglican (in communion with Canterbury) but that use an Eastern rite of worship (Byzantine, Coptic, Chaldean etc) and have their churches arranged in an Eastern way (Iconostasis etc).

I don't think that there is.

If there is no such thing, do you think it should exist?

No, but it's interesting to contemplate.

I heard a while ago that an Anglican priest I had met several years ago had recently converted to Orthodoxy. The previous parish priest at that church had also been an Anglican who had converted to Orthodoxy. So it seems that there are conversions happening. Do you think that an Eastern Rite Anglican church with the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom would be an option for those Anglicans who have entered Orthodoxy?

Those people are no longer are Anglican, however, so it's a different proposition. Just like the folks who have taken advantage of the Pope's Ordinariate idea.

 

[PaladinValer]

I'm curious to know if there is such a thing as "Eastern Rite Anglicanism", that is, Anglican churches which are fully Anglican (in communion with Canterbury) but that use an Eastern rite of worship (Byzantine, Coptic, Chaldean etc) and have their churches arranged in an Eastern way (Iconostasis etc).

Some of the Continuing Anglican Churches are essentially like this, but there is nothing within the Anglican Communion proper like this to my immediate knowledge.

If there is no such thing, do you think it should exist?

Well, Anglicanism in many ways has elements of Eastern liturgy already within it. Much of the Anglican Communion is moving towards moving the Episclesis after the Words of Institution and that is largely standard in both the Scotish and American provinces and probably one or two others.

Could we have an official liturgy that is more Eastern in orientation? Sure. Do we need to? No; either is a valid liturgical style. Should we authorize one? Maybe, as it is, as I just said, a valid liturgical style.

I think I ought to point out that, while I am a high churchman, I still believe that style shouldn't be over substance; not only is such a logical fallacy, but it brings people uncomfortably close to being either a crypto-Presby/Calvinist or an Anglo-Papist, depending on the extreme. I am pretty high and the parish I attend has elements of both high and low, making it essentially broad but with a slight high-church slant in the end. It isn't as high as I like, but that doesn't mean I cannot or should not go there.

I heard a while ago that an Anglican priest I had met several years ago had recently converted to Orthodoxy. The previous parish priest at that church had also been an Anglican who had converted to Orthodoxy. So it seems that there are conversions happening. Do you think that an Eastern Rite Anglican church with the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom would be an option for those Anglicans who have entered Orthodoxy?

Sounds like they were probably the Eastern equivalents of Anglo-Papists to begin with...

In addition, any Anglican from any Anglican church who joins anything like an Ordinariate, run by the Vatican or an Eastern Orthodox jurisdiction, is no longer Anglican, period. Style doesn't equate to substance.

What should happen is that people need to be better catechized to appreciate Anglicanism for what it is. If anything, Ordinariates should be established by we Anglicans for dissaffected Vatican Catholics and Eastern Orthodox who wish to join us.

 

[Albion]

Some of the Continuing Anglican Churches are essentially like this

Eastern rite Anglican? I can't think of any, although I'd be interested in knowing where such a church might be found if there are any. There are Eastern Orthodox churches that have attracted Anglican congregations to convert, but they don't remain Anglican...and the idea there is not Eastern Rite Anglicanism anyway, but Western Rite Orthodoxy instead.

 

[Kristos]

There are Western Rite Orthodox, and Eastern Rite Catholics, but I've never heard of these mismatches extending beyond those. These mismatches occur mainly when there is a change in leadership and the people don't want to change their Rite - I have heard of many case where the opposite is the case - ie the people want to change their Rite without changing their leadership. It's hard enough just to get people to sing a familiar hymn to a different melody - I can't imagine trying to get an entire congregation to change the whole Rite.

 

[PaladinValer]

Eastern rite Anglican?

No; I mean Continuing Anglican bodies that are, basically, Ango-Patriarchal, to coin a phrase..

 

[Albion]

No; I mean Continuing Anglican bodies that are, basically, Ango-Patriarchal, to coin a phrase..

Yes, my curiosity is telling me to ask for a definition. You must not be using the word Patriarchal to refer to anything Eastern, am I right about that?

 

[PaladinValer]

Anglo-Papist=Essentially Vatican Catholic
Anglo-Patriarchal=Essentially Eastern Orthodox

 

[Albion]

Anglo-Papist=Essentially Vatican Catholic
Anglo-Patriarchal=Essentially Eastern Orthodox

Oh, you did mean Eastern. OK, but I'm still wondering where there might be any Eastern Orthodox connection in any Continuing Anglican church. Are you referring to any who might have managed recognition from some Eastern jurisdiction? I can't think of any that have done even that, so you can appreciate my curiosity, if such a thing has escaped my notice.

 

[Dewi Sant]

The Anglican church in the east was established to serve those British persons who were living/serving in foreign lands. The Anglican church had no intention to proselytise among Christian nations and for this reason the churches in the east are in a western rite according to the usages of the Church of England.

The relations between the Church in the East and Anglicanism were explored greatly in the nineteenth century, particularly in the correspondance between Khomyakov and Palmer (of Magdalen College).


I do not see any reason to invent an 'Eastern Use' or adopt an 'Eastern Rite' in to Anglicanism.
If the peoples of the east were to abandon their own churches and en-mass adopt Anglicanism with a desire to maintain their own eastern customs, it may be worth exploring. Personally, I do not see such movements to be likely.

 

[black coffee]

In the 1979 BCP there is a Eucharistic prayer that is strangly "Chrysostom Style" , if you add the Prayers of the People form that the petition read: "lord, have mercy" (don't have my BCP in front of me) , it is almost exactly what you would hear the deacon in the orthodox church begin the Liturgy with. Instead of the elevation, you could do some sort of quasi-great enterance.

Litugically, I am of the mind that our prayers in all parishes on sunday should mirror one another for the sake of some sort of unity. as for the asthetics (high, low etc.) they have no bering on the words.

there is an APCK church that is eastern in orientation, but i am sure they still use the 1928 liturgy, or the Missal.

 

[Albion]

there is an APCK church that is eastern in orientation, but i am sure they still use the 1928 liturgy, or the Missal.

If so--and I think you're right about that--it wouldn't seem to be very eastern.

 

[black coffee]

ok, got my BCP:

If you were to use form V of the prayers of the people, and eucharistic prayer D, you could play Divine Liturgy.

and the APCK church was: Grace Church in Taylorsville, Ky. The priest is Fr. Seraphim, offers the jesus prayer rope and roasary, has a hermatige, and a cave he lives in when not there.

 

[black coffee]

"it wouldn't seem to be very eastern", hahaha, indeed! God bless the 1928 BCP! It does not get much more Anglican then that.

 

[Albion]

ok, got my BCP:

If you were to use form V of the prayers of the people, and eucharistic prayer D, you could play Divine Liturgy.

Sure, but you said that the church in question used the 1928 BCP, so that was what I was reacting to.

and the APCK church was: Grace Church in Taylorsville, Ky. The priest is Fr. Seraphim, offers the jesus prayer rope and roasary, has a hermatige, and a cave he lives in when not there.

Thank you. "APCK church" made me think of a parish. I would agree that there are some essentially isolated clergy here or there with self-described hermitages or oratories or some such, and this isn't the only one. I do know that a few have tried to pattern themselves after Eastern Christianity and are permitted to do wo by their bishops for the very reason that these are not regular parishes.

 

[black coffee]

I just assumed the question regarded the TEC and current Prayerbook, sorry.

As far as the APCK, when I was in Seminary the norms were 1928 or The Anglican Missal, depending on the Parish. At St. Peter's in Oakland it was a mixture, depending on which service I served at. But for daily and Sunday Mass the seminary Chapel used the 1928, only using the Collect if it were a more "Catholic" Feast from the Missal.

 

[black coffee]

oh yeah. i forgot about them.

what about you old catholics, do you have an eastern-rite, eastern-use, etc?

 

[Dylan Michael]

I don't know about Anglican, but there is a Ukrainian Lutheran Church that uses the DL of St. John Chrysostom.
Ukrainian Lutheran Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[black coffee]

dylan, i have seen photos of that before. quite beautiful! chrysostom's liturgy has some wonderful hymns.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I don't know about Anglican, but there is a Ukrainian Lutheran Church that uses the DL of St. John Chrysostom.
Ukrainian Lutheran Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ukrainian Lutheran Church is Byzantine Rite also.