Early Marian Apparitions

[Dominus Fidelis]

I came across two early Marian apparitions that I never heard of before...interesting stuff!

Our Lady of the Pillar - Saragossa, Spain (ca. 40 AD)

After the crucifixion , ressurection and ascension of Jesus, his Apostles began to spread the message he left throughout Israel and shortly thereafter, through the Roman empire. One of these Apostles, James (the Greater), reportedly travelled as far west as Spain to the village of Saragossa in northeast Spain. While James was there, he became disheartened because of the failure of his mission. Tradition holds that while he was deep in prayer Jesus' Blessed Mother appeared to him and gave him a small wooden statue of herself and a column of jasper wood and instructed him to build a church in her honor:

"This place is to be my house, and this image and column shall be the title and altar of the temple that you shall build."

The jasper column and the wooden statue can still be seen on special occassions at a church that houses them. About a year after the apparition James arranged to build a small chapel in Mary's honor, the first Church ever dedicated to the honor of the Virgin Mary. After James returned to Jerusalem, he was executed by Herod Agrippa in about 44 AD, the first apostle to be martyred for his faith. Several of his disciples took his body and returned it for final burial in Spain. The local queen, observing several of the miracles performed by James' disciples, converted to Christianity and permitted James' body to be buried in a local field. Eight centuries later, a cathedral in honor of St. James was erected after his gravesite was rediscovered by a local hermit. The hermit found the burial site after noticing an unusual star formation. The site for the cathedral was called Compostella (starry field) and it is a major pilgrimage site to this day.

Saint Mary Major - Rome, Italy (ca. 352 AD)

With much of the Roman empire converted to Christianity, a number of pious Romans began to dedicate their wealth to honoring Mary and the Apostles by building shrines and churches dedicated to them. One such nobleman, John of Rome, and his wife decided to honor Mary in whatever way they could. In early August, John and his wife both had an unusual dream where Mary appeared to them and asked them to have a church built on one of Rome's seven hills - the Esquiline. John decided to tell the Pope, Liberius, about his dream and when he did the Pope told him that he, too, had a similar dream. On August 5th, they both went to Esquiline hill which they found covered with snow in a contour matching the outline of a church. Construction on a church conforming to the outline left by the snow was started immediately. The Bascilica of Santa Maria Maggiore in Rome, one of the largest churches on earth, celebrates its birth to this day on August 5th.

 

[frettr00]

First i've seen of those, they're very early and right around the time of the origins of the rosary.

 

[darby8]

What year did the Assumption happen at Ephesus? Was it before 40 AD?

 

[ThereseOfLisieux]

What year did the Assumption happen at Ephesus? Was it before 40 AD?

That is a good question. I don't know if we really know when that happened. I vaguely remember someone saying that she appeard to someone before she died. I will look this up later when I have time.

I have heard of St. Mary Major, but not Our Lady of the Pillar. LMK if anyone comes upon any other sources. Where were these found?

 

[Skripper]

What year did the Assumption happen at Ephesus? Was it before 40 AD?

Doubtful, since the NT was still being written at that time and it's fairly unlikely such an event would be omitted. But I don't know.

 

[raptor13]

That is a good question. I don't know if we really know when that happened. I vaguely remember someone saying that she appeard to someone before she died. I will look this up later when I have time.

I have heard of St. Mary Major, but not Our Lady of the Pillar. LMK if anyone comes upon any other sources. Where were these found?

It could have been bilocation. Some of the saints could do it, i'm it's safe to say its possible that the Queen of Saints could do it too.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

It could have been bilocation. Some of the saints could do it, i'm it's safe to say its possible that the Queen of Saints could do it too.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[plainswolf]

Doubtful, since the NT was still being written at that time and it's fairly unlikely such an event would be omitted. But I don't know.

I think that writers of Scripture were more concerned with establishing the Law of Grace first, from which all else then flows. Otherwise perhaps the early Christians would have attached themselves too strongly to Mary before they had a firm foundation in the Faith and law of grace.

I once heard that, perhaps it was by some saint I bleieve, anyways some saint at one time, when he saw Mary, was so overtaken by her extraordinary beauty and supernatural charm that had he not been so well grounded in the Faith, that he would have almost mistaken her for Divinity.

J.M.J.
plainswolf

 

[Sevryn45]

You know what I hate butting in but I would like to point out a few interesting points.

1. In the first place it was 40 A.D., Mary may have been alive. It was only a few years after Jesus was crucified. If she was alive, then how could she "appear" to anybody?

2. The early Christians didn't have churches, they met in people's homes. Book of acts ends in at around 60 AD. There's no record of a Church being built by Paul.

3. Furthermore, starting with the stoning of Stephen, Christians were killed for their faith. It is basic common sense that people who are being killed for their faith do not want to call attention to their religious gatherings. That is not a good time to build church buildings.

4. According to tradition, in the eighth century, a hermit "discovered" the body of the Apostle James in Saragossa. This discovery is questionable in view of the fact that the Tomb of James was discovered in Jerusalem with the writings on it "James Brother of Jesus".

5. What would James the leader of the Jerusalem Church be doing in Saragossa Spain in 40 AD? No record of him going there in the first place.



ANyone mind explaining this to me please?

 

[isshinwhat]

1. In the first place it was 40 A.D., Mary may have been alive. It was only a few years after Jesus was crucified. If she was alive, then how could she "appear" to anybody?

Bilocation. She would not be the only Saint of God to have experienced this miracle.

2. The early Christians didn't have churches, they met in people's homes. Book of acts ends in at around 60 AD. There's no record of a Church being built by Paul.

The early Christians met in houses, Synagouges, etc. A building dedicated to Christian worship is quite possible, and not unheard of.

3. Furthermore, starting with the stoning of Stephen, Christians were killed for their faith. It is basic common sense that people who are being killed for their faith do not want to call attention to their religious gatherings. That is not a good time to build church buildings.

The first Saint Peter's Bascilica in Rome was finished before the persecutions under Julian the Apostate, and it was built on a shrine dedicated to St. Peter, which held (holds) his bones, and was in existence during the major Roman persecutions. Common sense may dictate that their actions were not "wise by human standards," but "God chose the foolish of the world to shame the wise and God chose the weak of the world to shame the strong." James might have died expressing his faith, but I bet if you asked him, he'd say it was all worth it.

4. According to tradition, in the eighth century, a hermit "discovered" the body of the Apostle James in Saragossa. This discovery is questionable in view of the fact that the Tomb of James was discovered in Jerusalem with the writings on it "James Brother of Jesus".

The ossuary of James is also questionable historically.

http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/Official_Report.htm

5. What would James the leader of the Jerusalem Church be doing in Saragossa Spain in 40 AD? No record of him going there in the first place.

Eusebius of Caesarea (c. 265-c. 340) Mentions it in his Church History

 

[raptor13]

The ossuary of James is also questionable historically.

wasnt this recently proven to be a fake, and they caught the forgerers?

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

wasnt this recently proven to be a fake, and they caught the forgerers?

Yes, that is true I will look for a source detailing it.

 

[D'Ann]

Greetings All,

wasnt this recently proven to be a fake, and they caught the forgerers?

I have a couple of questions. What does "Bilocation" term mean? I'm not sure if it is something like being able to transcend into another area while still existing in the same area... ?????

What was the Ossuary of James pertaining to? And why was it fake?

God's Peace,

D'Ann

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I think that writers of Scripture were more concerned with establishing the Law of Grace first, from which all else then flows. Otherwise perhaps the early Christians would have attached themselves too strongly to Mary before they had a firm foundation in the Faith and law of grace.

I once heard that, perhaps it was by some saint I bleieve, anyways some saint at one time, when he saw Mary, was so overtaken by her extraordinary beauty and supernatural charm that had he not been so well grounded in the Faith, that he would have almost mistaken her for Divinity.

J.M.J.
plainswolf

Indeed. Jesus said He had much more to tell them but they were not ready to hear it. I think they were busy just trying to wrap their heads around Him and His role, let alone Mary's!

 

[Rising_Suns]

Otherwise perhaps the early Christians would have attached themselves too strongly to Mary before they had a firm foundation in the Faith and law of grace.

You read my signature didn't you.

I once heard that, perhaps it was by some saint I bleieve, anyways some saint at one time, when he saw Mary, was so overtaken by her extraordinary beauty and supernatural charm that had he not been so well grounded in the Faith, that he would have almost mistaken her for Divinity.

Yes exactly. That was in "True Devotion to Mary" as well.