Dying before last Confession..

[Renton405]

Is it true that not performing a last confession when you are sick and near death is dangerous to ones salvation?? If he has done past Penances but dosen't do one near the end of his life and is in a state of Mortal sin would that suggest he had died in mortal sin? or do the past penances he has done help cover these future sins??

I know it says in the Canon that a priest should try with all his power to get a last confession to someone who is sick and near death.. so it would mean that it is probably an extremely important thing.. there have been stories of saints that I have read who have had visions of people going to hell because they kept something back during thier last confession or have avoided doing one..

 

[MikeK]

I tend to think (that is to say "I don't think this is in line with Church teaching, but..") that God might not alwasy be as by-the-book as we're brought up to believe. Denying the kingdom to someone simply because they got into a fatal carwreck on the way to Confession seems a bit mean. I don't think God is mean.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

God, like a teacher in a class room, has rules for grading.

We, like students in a class room, only are privvy to some of them.

 

[QuantaCura]

If you die clinging to mortal sin--remaining in a graceless state--you cannot be saved. Unless God has lied to us (and He can neither deceive nor be deceived), that's the way it is.

The Sacrament of Penance is how mortal sins are remitted normatively. However, since "charity covers a multitude of sins" an act of perfect charity can suffice. We often use the phrase "perfect contrition" which is contrition for one's sins out of love, not servile fear.

With the sacrament, all that is necessary is imperfect contrition (some sorrow and firm purpose of amendment). Without the sacrament, that sorrow must be for love.

 

[Fantine]

With all the evidence we have from people who've had near-death experiences (NDE's) and from my own experience of sensing my mother's spirit traveling 1000 miles to say goodbye to me after she died, I think that there is a period of time where the soul is out of the body before people enter the light (leave the world.)

And I find it hard to imagine that, with the opportunity to look back in a flash at one's life with perfect objectivity, 99.999999% of people do not feel pure contrition.

And no, I don't think hell is full, but I respect your right to disagree with me as I hope you respect mine to disagree with you.

Quanta Cura said: We often use the phrase "perfect contrition" which is contrition for one's sins out of love, not servile fear.

Great observation. And one reason why I think Catholicism needs to take a more positive approach in the matter of sin. Instead of emphasizing punishment and hell, it's better to focus life-purpose, what Jesus taught us about self-giving, the emotional and psychological benefits of living life God's way.

Taking the focus off of ourselves and aversive conditioning/behavior mod and on to others and our relationship to God and others on this earth.

 

[QuantaCura]

Salvation is in its most basic understanding is partaking of the Divine nature--which is love, "God is love", or as St. Bernard says, love is the very substance of God. All human beings are designed to truly receive that love and to truly love.

This is why St. Paul says charity is the greatest, why St. John says those who love live in God, and why the two greatest commandments from Our Lord are to love God and love our neighbor. Faith is necessary first, as it is that initial surrender to Divine Love, but charity, the greatest, is partaking of it.

Sin, on the other hand is a choice not to partake in that love. In fact, some saints like St. Catherine of Siena and St. Robert Bellarmine, say that because man is so ordered towards love, that sin is essentially loving the wrong way. And this is always a danger because the world offers many counterfeit forms of love--love of self or material things over God and neighbor, or seeking to please men instead of loving them (and any parent knows the difference--you can just please your kids by giving them ice cream, but you can love them by making them eat their broccoli first! ).

Abiding in true love, therefore, is essentially salvation. Abiding outside it is mortal sin. To end this life obstinately remaining outside of love, is to choose not to partake of it, to choose not to partake of the Divine nature. Obstinately clinging to sin, rather than God who is love would be truly Hell.

Tying this in to the topic at hand, the sacrament of penance is how we are restored to that unity of love, when having chosen to live outside it, we desire to return to it.

Perfect charity suffices without confession, however, because you are already in that state of love that the Sacrament is intended to return you.

I hope that makes sense!

 

[Aprill]

Wow, can NOT be saved?

Isn't God all knowing and just? I think that if there is a baptism by desire then there surely must be a confession by desire as well in that case. Surely GOD can forgive your sins.

 

[Aprill]

http://www.catholic.net/RCC/Catechism/3/l25.html


Says:


Q. 970. Will Extreme Unction take away mortal sin if the dying person is no longer able to confess?

A. Extreme Unction will take away mortal sin if the dying person is no longer able to confess, provided he has the sorrow for his sins that would be necessary for the worthy reception of the Sacrament of Penance.

 

[FullyMT]

If the person is truly sorry for their sins and are desiring to get to confession as soon as possible, but die before being able to, I would hope God would be merciful. Just as if a person desired to be baptised but died prior to it.

 

[QuantaCura]

Wow, can NOT be saved?

Isn't God all knowing and just? I think that if there is a baptism by desire then there surely must be a confession by desire as well in that case. Surely GOD can forgive your sins.

Since I am the one who said "can not be saved" I think you were responding to me --I thought I had clarified with the rest of that post and the next post--sorry about that . If someone clings to their mortal sin, if they obstinately refuse to partake of the love of God, no, they will not be saved (it is true also that only God knows for sure who is in this state). That's the very basic doctrine of salvation. I don't think someone desiring to confess is clinging to it, but, it is also part of Tradition that the desire be motivated by love and not servile fear. "Love casts out fear."

The same goes for Baptism by desire, which is, in its essence, a love of God above all things, which carries with it an implicit desire to do all He has commanded.

Love is the central Christian message, we can have faith to move mountains, but without love we are nothing.

 

[Aprill]

Since I am the one who said "can not be saved" I think you were responding to me --I thought I had clarified with the rest of that post and the next post--sorry about that . If someone clings to their mortal sin, if they obstinately refuse to partake of the love of God, no, they will not be saved (it is true also that only God knows for sure who is in this state). That's the very basic doctrine of salvation. I don't think someone desiring to confess is clinging to it, but, it is also part of Tradition that the desire be motivated by love and not servile fear. "Love casts out fear."

The same goes for Baptism by desire, which is, in its essence, a love of God above all things, which carries with it an implicit desire to do all He has commanded.

Love is the central Christian message, we can have faith to move mountains, but without love we are nothing.

Perhaps I had misread your post, it happens occasionally. (More than I'll admit ) But seriously, I agree. God is all knowing, all loving and all just. I trust he wouldn't condem someone who was truly sorry.

*Note the following is what I think and NOT what the Church teaches*

I think that we have a final judgement before we are cast down one way or another, a final, look at yourself and tell me are you truly sorry. I think that in last moment you are called to your true self, and that God would give you a last chance...

 

[QuantaCura]

Here is a good passage:

1 John 4:16 So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17* In this is love perfected with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love. 19* We love, because he first loved us. 20* If any one says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot * love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him, that he who loves God should love his brother also.

 

[Aprill]

Here is a good passage:

1 John 4:16 So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17* In this is love perfected with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love. 19* We love, because he first loved us. 20* If any one says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot * love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him, that he who loves God should love his brother also.

I love it

 

[King of the Nations]

Is it true that not performing a last confession when you are sick and near death is dangerous to ones salvation?? If he has done past Penances but dosen't do one near the end of his life and is in a state of Mortal sin would that suggest he had died in mortal sin? or do the past penances he has done help cover these future sins??

I know it says in the Canon that a priest should try with all his power to get a last confession to someone who is sick and near death.. so it would mean that it is probably an extremely important thing.. there have been stories of saints that I have read who have had visions of people going to hell because they kept something back during thier last confession or have avoided doing one..

As others have noted in one way or another, there is nothing "magical" about Last Rites. (And in fact, the evangelical catholic streak in me frowns on the way you spoke of "performing" last rites. But anyway) Salvation is most definitely not on a point system. It's not as if all your previous confessions are worth 1pt each while last rites is worth 100,000 and you need 105,000 pts to get to Heaven, so if you miss last rites...Last rites is simply one's last confession before leaving for eternity.

...A big deal for obvious reasons, but the point is that there is nothing about last rites itself that says "you must perform in order to pass the test".

Further, any time you consciously withold a mortal sin from the priest when going to confession, you commit sacrilege and are guilty of another sin in so doing. Not just during last rites.

Greg

 

[Aprill]

As others have noted in one way or another, there is nothing "magical" about Last Rites. (And in fact, the evangelical catholic streak in me frowns on the way you spoke of "performing" last rites. But anyway) Salvation is most definitely not on a point system. It's not as if all your previous confessions are worth 1pt each while last rites is worth 100,000 and you need 105,000 pts to get to Heaven, so if you miss last rites...Last rites is simply one's last confession before leaving for eternity.

...A big deal for obvious reasons, but the point is that there is nothing about last rites itself that says "you must perform in order to pass the test".

Further, any time you consciously withold a mortal sin from the priest when going to confession, you commit sacrilege and are guilty of another sin in so doing. Not just during last rites.

Greg

Also "performing" means hearing confession and anointing with oils...not much of a performance if you ask me, I want a dancing priest, and a dancing deacon (that's a joke for people who don't know me that well)

 

[hawko]

We don't know the intent of the dying person. Perhaps this person had the intention of confessing their sins, but never had a chance. According to the diary of St Faustina, our Lord gives everyone a last opportunity to accept His mercy and forgiveness at the moment of their death. It is a good practice to say the Chaplet of Divine Mercy for a person who is dying or near death. I myself am trusting in God's mercy when I die.

 

[Renton405]

If you die clinging to mortal sin--remaining in a graceless state--you cannot be saved. Unless God has lied to us (and He can neither deceive nor be deceived), that's the way it is.

The Sacrament of Penance is how mortal sins are remitted normatively. However, since "charity covers a multitude of sins" an act of perfect charity can suffice. We often use the phrase "perfect contrition" which is contrition for one's sins out of love, not servile fear.

With the sacrament, all that is necessary is imperfect contrition (some sorrow and firm purpose of amendment). Without the sacrament, that sorrow must be for love.

What if the sorrow is because of fear of hell/Fear of God?...

There have been many times Ive confessed out of fear of Gods wrath. But it is also because of a guilt factor

 

[WarriorAngel]

AS Paul said..'Lest I lose the prize..'

IF one is on the way to repent, or will be repenting, it might be a matter of deep purgation.

If a person has no intention, it is noteworthy that they may go to hell.
God is not as lax as we would like to think He is.

The Apostles were adamnant about keeping away from sins...
And the Church holds confessions.

SO if you frequent confession, and try to avoid sin [though near occasions] you may not suffer much while purifying. If you were to die without confession....

But a last confession is a must for those who desire immediate reception into Heaven. Especially a sincere confession.

Yes, confession is important .....

 

[WarriorAngel]

What if the sorrow is because of fear of hell/Fear of God?...

There have been many times Ive confessed out of fear of Gods wrath. But it is also because of a guilt factor

Fear of God is a gift of the Holy Spirit...
That is grace to fear Him and His just punishments.

Without fear, we would not resolve to live as best we can in avoiding sins that displease Him.

Guilt is also a gift...to know what sins displease God...and feel remorse.

The act of contrition...it covers what you are saying.

Ecclesiasticus 23
37 And they that remain shall know. that there is nothing better than the fear of God: and that there is nothing sweeter than to have regard to the commandments of the Lord.

 

[WarriorAngel]

AND dont forget...venial sins are not grave, and therefore you need not become scrupulous.