Dubious Claims

[Snagglefritz]

There is a new Christian Forum in Australia called Christseekers. I haven't been here long enough to post links, but if you Google you will find it easily enough.

In the "Ask An Atheist" thread at Christseekers, one of the members says he has used his faith healing ability to cure many ailments including blindness and Down's Syndrome, and he once helped in regrowing an arm that had been amputated at the shoulder!

What do others on this forum think of people who make such claims ?

 

[znr]

There is a new Christian Forum in Australia called Christseekers. I haven't been here long enough to post links, but if you Google "Christeekers.net" you will find it easily enough.

In the "Ask An Atheist" thread at Christseekers, one of the members says he has used his faith healing ability to cure many ailments including blindness and Down's Syndrome, and he once helped in regrowing an arm that had been amputated at the shoulder!

What do others on this forum think of people who make such claims ?

Well, I can't get past the horrid grammar. Christ Seekers - or the fact that the whole site looks like it's been written by merry pranksters.

And what I think about people who make those sorts of claims isn't very nice.

Now don't get me wrong...I believe that the power of God can, and does, heal people - but I don't believe God needs our pompous egotistical braggings to faciliate healing.

 

[Snagglefritz]

Well, I can't get past the horrid grammar or the fact that the whole site looks like it's been written by merry pranksters.

And what I think about people who make those sorts of claims isn't very nice.

Now don't get me wrong...I believe that the power of God can, and does, heal people - but I don't believe God needs our pompous egotistical braggings to faciliate healing.

Unfortunately, they are not "merry pranksters", they are deadly serious, and trying hard to be taken seriously. They are involved with the "poverty rescue" organisation for example.

As you noticed, spelling and grammar is not often found over there, but spelling and grammar is not the real problem. The real problem is that a group of people with an unknown agenda are claiming to have cured Down's Syndrome and regrown amputated arms - and they are claiming it in the name of Christianity. I think it is an appalling.

Thanks for your reply BrendaRose. It isn't very nice is it? Lies of that magnitude make everyone look bad.

 

[znr]

Unfortunately, they are not "merry pranksters", they are deadly serious, and trying hard to be taken seriously. They are involved with the "poverty rescue" organisation for example.

As you noticed, spelling and grammar is not often found over there, but spelling and grammar is not the real problem. The real problem is that a group of people with an unknown agenda are claiming to have cured Down's Syndrome and regrown amputated arms - and they are claiming it in the name of Christianity. I think it is an appalling.

Would you happen to have handy a link to point to the claims made? I managed to get on their forum site and looked around, but left after a few minutes. I wasn't able to find that "ask an atheist" thread.

Ok, I did go back in and read quite a bit more. I can't repost some of what I read due to its vulgar nature. That the vulgar content is allowed to remain on the site...well that says more than enough about not just quality control but the sort of people encouraged to "chat" there. Yes, from second glance it does seem odd and not right at all. I reserve the right to agree the claims are appalling, but I sense that we're going to probably end up agreeing that it is exactly that.

 

[Peripatetic]

Snagglefritz - were you seeking advice with this post? This is not the correct forum for debate or debunking.

 

[Snagglefritz]

I haven't been here long enough to post links, so bear with me as I try to recode it for you:


If you still can't find it, here are the actual claims made in replies 11 and 18 on that thread:

* i have seen the Impossible happen, (eg.
* Limbs Growing where there was no limbs,
* Down syndrome Reversed,
* Mute speak,
* Blind See,
* Broken Bone healed.

* i saw a left arm that was amputated … to the Shoulder.
* My self 2 pastors and 10 other Leaders (13 of us)
* Fasted For 12 days
* (the Pastors Fasted for 40)
* and then at the end we came together and Prayed for that arm to grow.
* (this i am sure you will find hard to Believe)
* first grow the Fingers
* then the hand
* and then Fore arm
* and the upper Arm,
* it looked as if it had No muscle so we kept Praying and we saw the Arm fill with the same muscle size as the Other arm.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, if you can't find it at Christseekers, the whole thread is stored in the Google Cache but again I have to be a little bit devious about posting the link. It begins with:

http [colon] //webcache [dot] googleusercontent [dot] com/

to which must be added:



Sorry about the cut and paste routine, but that's the best I can do...it does work, I just tested it.

 

[Snagglefritz]

T
What do others on this forum think of people who make such claims ?

Snagglefritz - were you seeking advice with this post? This is not the correct forum for debate or debunking.

The quote from my original post indicates that I am seeking advice/comment. I most certainly am not debating anything
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what do you think about the situation I have described? Is there any advice I could give the people at Christseekers? Or do you think I should stay quiet and let the situation roll on indefinitely?

 

[CuddlyBear]

Highly skeptical here but am open to being shown the evidence

 

[znr]

I haven't been here long enough to post links, so bear with me as I try to recode it for you:
http [colon] //christseekers [dot] net/Forum/index [dot] php?topic=30.0

If you still can't find it, here are the actual claims made in replies 11 and 18 on that thread:

* i have seen the Impossible happen, (eg.
* Limbs Growing where there was no limbs,
* Down syndrome Reversed,
* Mute speak,
* Blind See,
* Broken Bone healed.

* i saw a left arm that was amputated … to the Shoulder.
* My self 2 pastors and 10 other Leaders (13 of us)
* Fasted For 12 days
* (the Pastors Fasted for 40)
* and then at the end we came together and Prayed for that arm to grow.
* (this i am sure you will find hard to Believe)
* first grow the Fingers
* then the hand
* and then Fore arm
* and the upper Arm,
* it looked as if it had No muscle so we kept Praying and we saw the Arm fill with the same muscle size as the Other arm.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, if you can't find it at Christseekers, the whole thread is stored in the Google Cache but again I have to be a little bit devious about posting the link. It begins with:

http [colon] //webcache [dot] googleusercontent [dot] com/

to which must be added:

search?q=cache:8phLifnMwwoJ:christseekers.net/Forum/index.php%3Faction%3Dprintpage%3Btopic%3D30.0+"Arm+fill+with+the+same+muscle+size+as+the+Other+arm."&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk

Sorry about the cut and paste routine, but that's the best I can do...it does work, I just tested it.

No biggie on the CP. I pasted and I read it all. Honestly? Who knows. That forum seems off. Or perhaps it's just me being me. I've thought about this and I have to apologize for making assumptions one way or the other. That's neither fair to you or myself.

Healings. (I more believe they happens for others than for myself.) Yes, I will freely admit, I have a lot of doubt when it comes to the major non substantiated claims of limbs growing back and kidneys that weren't there just showing up; however, and this is a big however, what if I'm (we're) wrong? I am not saying that the poster's claims to having seen them take place are true. After reading more and more over there I've formed an overall opinion but I won't share it; it's not important. What is important is that you're here. I find your being here much more important and interesting than what I imagine you might want to say to them. You're here with us. Please feel welcome to stay with us. There are boards here you might enjoy, and for the most part people seem sane.

So you asked "What should I tell them"? You're asking Christians to advise you on what to say to other Christians. I can actually understand this...however...and I thought about it for awhile, I suspect that God himself is needling around your head and heart and probably interested more in you personally than He is in what you tell those Christians over there. I agree. I'm more interested in you and what brings you here than in what you report back to them over there.

 

[bsd31]

I'm skeptical of the OP's intention here, but giving the benefit of the doubt...

In regards to the group you reference - "You will know them by their fruit"

 

[Snagglefritz]

I'm skeptical of the OP's intention here, but giving the benefit of the doubt...

You are skeptical of my intentions, but are you skeptical of the claims made by the people at Christseekers? Just for the record, I am more than skeptical. I think they are telling lies.

Please understand that I am not being petulant when I say that this will be my last post on this thread. I'm glad I had the opportunity to get it started and I'm pleased to see that there have been some responses. My only intention was to hear your opinions - and the best way to emphasise that intention is to get out early before any of us say things we might later regret.

After all, it has already been suggested that I have posted in the wrong forum; I am seeking to debate rather than merely discuss; I am a debunker, and that I have a hidden agenda - but "No" to all those things. I am not here to create ill will and my future silence will attest to that. I do look forward, however, to reading all future replies.

 

[znr]

You are skeptical of my intentions, but are you skeptical of the claims made by the people at Christseekers? Just for the record, I am more than skeptical. I think they are telling lies.

Please understand that I am not being petulant when I say that this will be my last post on this thread. I'm glad I had the opportunity to get it started and I'm pleased to see that there have been some responses. My only intention was to hear your opinions - and the best way to emphasise that intention is to get out early before any of us say things we might later regret.

After all, it has already been suggested that I have posted in the wrong forum; I am seeking to debate rather than merely discuss; I am a debunker, and that I have a hidden agenda - but "No" to all those things. I am not here to create ill will and my future silence will attest to that. I do look forward, however, to reading all future replies.

Take good care.

 

[bsd31]

You are skeptical of my intentions, but are you skeptical of the claims made by the people at Christseekers? Just for the record, I am more than skeptical. I think they are telling lies.

Please understand that I am not being petulant when I say that this will be my last post on this thread. I'm glad I had the opportunity to get it started and I'm pleased to see that there have been some responses. My only intention was to hear your opinions - and the best way to emphasise that intention is to get out early before any of us say things we might later regret.

After all, it has already been suggested that I have posted in the wrong forum; I am seeking to debate rather than merely discuss; I am a debunker, and that I have a hidden agenda - but "No" to all those things. I am not here to create ill will and my future silence will attest to that. I do look forward, however, to reading all future replies.

Like I said, "You will know them by their fruit". If they are doing what they claim that fruit will be known. On the other hand if they are not doing what they claim that fruit (lies) will be known as well.

Personally I believe in the healing power of God. I mean seriously what kind of pathetic, useless god would it be that couldn't or worse yet wouldn't heal? That doesn't mean I believe most people get healed. I believe God has a purpose in healing those He does. I don't believe it is a parlor trick that He performs to convince anyone of anything or because He is somehow morally obligated to do so.

 

[sleavie]

I wasn't there. I didn't see it. So God knows.

Who cares. I don't. Not effecting me in a negative way.

On the other hand, The universe had start somewhere. So I say God created the universe. It and that Universe creating power is inside us in the Holy Spirit. Now If God wanted us to create a new universe, he could allow that power to flow through us if we had the faith to believe. So in my books, and arm is easy.

So I believe it's possible, but whether or not that claim is real, I take it with a grain of salt.

Good for him. He's doing awesome. If not, I pity him. Either way, I don't care. Not my world. Mine is about what I can use for a fact in my life to better the world.

 

[GaryP]

This has been going on for thousands of years. Creation always strives to be special
and others are afraid to criticize their claims as to not be punished by some divine force.
So by the acts of some pastors etc, by fasting they are able to use their collective power to entice god or grow the arms themselves. Right. Arms are not tree branches.
What bothers me is that creation will remove their thoughts and minds off of the Father in Heaven and focus on these claims and then be afraid to critize them in fear
that they will be punished by god for doing so or they will give money.
Creation will believe anything.
So I will stand up and say this is false.

 

[DoctorJosh]

And what I think about people who make those sorts of claims isn't very nice.

Now don't get me wrong...I believe that the power of God can, and does, heal people - but I don't believe God needs our pompous egotistical braggings to faciliate healing.

Exactly, now if anyone could heal through the Power of Jesus and was doing it, they would be in hiding or keeping themselves out of the spotlight just because Governments would kidnap them and experiment on them to find out how they did it because they could heal their own military troops then. Others would just kidnap them and try to make money off the process of healing others. Then of course the FDA would be upset they wouldn't sell as many drugs and would see them as a danger to the medical science world. I think anyone that claims outright to heal anybody else through Prayer, Faith or the other is a scam. Those TV evangelists who heal people on TV are scam artists. Never once did they go to a children s hospital or other hospital and heal the sick there. No, so far if anyone is healing anyone else, they are keeping themselves hidden from the spot light.

 

[znr]

Exactly, now if anyone could heal through the Power of Jesus and was doing it, they would be in hiding or keeping themselves out of the spotlight just because Governments would kidnap them and experiment on them to find out how they did it because they could heal their own military troops then. Others would just kidnap them and try to make money off the process of healing others. Then of course the FDA would be upset they wouldn't sell as many drugs and would see them as a danger to the medical science world. I think anyone that claims outright to heal anybody else through Prayer, Faith or the other is a scam. Those TV evangelists who heal people on TV are scam artists. Never once did they go to a children s hospital or other hospital and heal the sick there. No, so far if anyone is healing anyone else, they are keeping themselves hidden from the spot light.

No, not "exactly" at all. You have your opinion and I have mine. And my opinion isn't aligned with yours so that we're in agreement. Nothing I said in this thread should be taken as justification of anyone elses opinion. Plus, what I said was in a specific context; that of this thread. But since we're here...I disagree with your opinion on most things.

Have a nice day, Dr. Reverend Josh.

 

[Avniel]

He replied, Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

And Ananias departed, and entered into the house; and laying his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, who appeared unto thee in the way which thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mayest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Spirit.

If I saw someone with no arm then with an arm I would tell everyone I know. And trust me every statement I made here would end in..........yeah but you know I seen that arm grow back.

Also I hope it is true I hope someone wouldnt miss use the word of God like that for self profit. And if they lied dont doubt the power of God, because he could have made the arm grow back. I believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit.