Drugs are Good.

[Species8472]

The Cherub with the flaming sword.

Many Christians believe that the consumption of drugs, such as; marijuana and LSD are considered sinful. This is out of sheer ignorance and fear (and in fear there is misunderstanding).
But if you refer to Mark 7:15: There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

If the church was to remain in the truth then how is it that it preaches that such things as drugs are unclean? Is it what goes into your mouth that will defile you or is it the things that come out of your mouth and out of your actions that will defile you?
Then the church says that drugs lead to sin and corruption; and I would say that so doesn't money but the church is happy to collect that.
Is it drugs that cause a man to sin or is it the mans' own will that causes him to sin?

Marijuana use can be found supported in the bible, if you would refer to Genesis 1:29: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Note-Marijuana is an herb bearing seed and God said he had given every herb bearing seed; and he even said that it was meat.

If you can come into agreement that every herb yielding seed is meat then I would have you refer to 1 Timothy 4:1-4: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving.

Now if God has established that every herb yielding seed is meat (of which marijuana is) and the church preaches that such drugs are bad and to be abstained from then the church is preaching lies in hypocrisy and the doctrine of devils.

Then the church would say that meats mean animals; but then I would have them refer to the part which I had mentioned: For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving.
Is not marijuana one of Gods' creatures and did he not say in Genesis--that he had given every herb yielding seed as meat?

Nonetheless, the church would say that drug addiction is bad and sinful; but then I would say is it the drug that is a sin or gluttony?

 

[Sojourner<><]

Many Christians believe that the consumption of drugs, such as; marijuana and LSD are considered sinful. This is out of sheer ignorance and fear (and in fear there is misunderstanding).
But if you refer to Mark 7:15: There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

If the church was to remain in the truth then how is it that it preaches that such things as drugs are unclean? Is it what goes into your mouth that will defile you or is it the things that come out of your mouth and out of your actions that will defile you?
Then the church says that drugs lead to sin and corruption; and I would say that so doesn't money but the church is happy to collect that.
Is it drugs that cause a man to sin or is it the mans' own will that causes him to sin?

Marijuana use can be found supported in the bible, if you would refer to Genesis 1:29: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Note-Marijuana is an herb bearing seed and God said he had given every herb bearing seed; and he even said that it was meat.

If you can come into agreement that every herb yielding seed is meat then I would have you refer to 1 Timothy 4:1-4: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving.

Now if God has established that every herb yielding seed is meat (of which marijuana is) and the church preaches that such drugs are bad and to be abstained from then the church is preaching lies in hypocrisy and the doctrine of devils.

Then the church would say that meats mean animals; but then I would have them refer to the part which I had mentioned: For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving.
Is not marijuana one of Gods' creatures and did he not say in Genesis--that he had given every herb yielding seed as meat?

Nonetheless, the church would say that drug addiction is bad and sinful; but then I would say is it the drug that is a sin or gluttony?

You have a point there. Take alcohol for instance. Wine was commonly consumed in the Bible... God is even praised for creating it, yet drunkenness is clearly denounced and very strong alchohol is frowned upon.

All of God's creations serve a purpose. But how can we be sure that Marijuana's purpose was for consumption as a recreational drug? For me, marijuana use was detrimental to my development during my teen years and is a major factor as to why I'm still in school. Perhaps it has some medicinal properties, but I don't think God intended it to be used the way me and my buddies did in highschool...

I think that alot of Christians probably think that when drug abuse is rampant, abstinence is the only road to take. You can't blame people for fearing for the well being of their children.

 

[Species8472]

You have a point there. Take alcohol for instance. Wine was commonly consumed in the Bible... God is even praised for creating it, yet drunkenness is clearly denounced and very strong alchohol is frowned upon.

All of God's creations serve a purpose. But how can we be sure that Marijuana's purpose was for consumption as a recreational drug? For me, marijuana use was detrimental to my development during my teen years and is a major factor as to why I'm still in school. Perhaps it has some medicinal properties, but I don't think God intended it to be used the way me and my buddies did in highschool...

I think that alot of Christians probably think that when drug abuse is rampant, abstinence is the only road to take. You can't blame people for fearing for the well being of their children.

Jesus says, those things you hate do not do; for all things are made manifest in Heaven.
To the typical Christian, fear is their only God. It has been said that fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; but to me once you overcome the fear of the Light then you have nothing more to do than to trust in God; for in an all-loving god there is nothing to fear because perfect love casts out fear; but the wicked should fear Gods' Justice because all-loving he may be, God is not blind to Justice.

 

[Soul Searcher]

All of God's creations serve a purpose. But how can we be sure that Marijuana's purpose was for consumption as a recreational drug? For me, marijuana use was detrimental to my development during my teen years and is a major factor as to why I'm still in school. Perhaps it has some medicinal properties, but I don't think God intended it to be used the way me and my buddies did in highschool....

Note: Marijuana is not a drug, it is a naturally occuring plant. Yes it contains THC which can be made into a drug and the plant itself does have some mind altering effects as well as some medicinal properties.

The major difference [from a christian perspective] between marijuana and actual drugs is that marijuana is made by God and drugs are made by man.

 

[hairettic]

Nonetheless, the church would say that drug addiction is bad and sinful; but then I would say is it the drug that is a sin or gluttony?

Are we talking about the "church's opinion"? You will find a lot of people on here that would be against marijuana use just because it is against the law! Not sure what your laws are like there.
However, if a doctor prescribes anything, for any reason..it is not questioned. Cuz then it is legal...even if it is worse for you!

I know I posted about this before but the early media coverage and drug campaigns still stand out in my mind. They impacted these generation and formed the opinions we have today.

 

[Gentle]

aaaaahahahaha I'm too baked to read all that now

 

[Trippin]

I don't think chems are all bad. If you look at the majority of them, their not really putting anything new into the system (atleast not that binds to any receptors). For the most part what the active components are doing is causing an inbalance of chems in your brain that are already there. Like thinking does.

There are exceptions to this, like nicotine. Nicotine acctually binds to receptors like a protein would, heroin is another example. And some of them just turn you into the dead, like meth.

But the ones that don't "intoxicate" can be missused. To rely on them to get to a certain state of mind, and never change to the point where you no longer need them is like what the shaman do. To no longer need them means to go without eventually.

Then again, who knows
late

 

[Beanieboy]

I don't think chems are all bad. If you look at the majority of them, their not really putting anything new into the system (atleast not that binds to any receptors). For the most part what the active components are doing is causing an inbalance of chems in your brain that are already there. Like thinking does.

There are exceptions to this, like nicotine. Nicotine acctually binds to receptors like a protein would, heroin is another example. And some of them just turn you into the dead, like meth.

But the ones that don't "intoxicate" can be missused. To rely on them to get to a certain state of mind, and never change to the point where you no longer need them is like what the shaman do. To no longer need them means to go without eventually.

Then again, who knows
late

One of the biggest reasons that I question the "sin" of drugs is because the reasoning is usually myth or simply outright lies and propaganda.

LSD, for example, was once called the wonder drug, because it helped people therapeutically, but then it was demonized, and the myths began: It makes holes in your brain, it damages your chromosomes, it will make you think you can fly and jump off a building, etc.

With marijuana, the same is myths have came into being: it is a gateway drug to harder drugs, it is addictive (which it isn't), legalizing marijuana will incourage use (use is actually lower in the Netherlands for teen use than in the USA), it has no medicinal purpose (helps with nausea and glaucoma)...

So, why lie? Because that is the only support that can be made for its prevention - falsehoods.

However, alcohol is legal, and people die from alcohol related poisoning of the liver, alcoholism, and drunk driving.
Smoking tobacco has been shown to be addictive (as well as contain more than tobacco in commercial brand cigarettes, such as toxins that help the cigarette continue to burn), and people die from lung and other forms of cancer due to smoking.

It doesn't make much sense.

 

[stelow]

One of the biggest reasons that I question the "sin" of drugs is because the reasoning is usually myth or simply outright lies and propaganda.

With marijuana, the same is myths have came into being: it is a gateway drug to harder drugs, it is addictive (which it isn't), legalizing marijuana will incourage use (use is actually lower in the Netherlands for teen use than in the USA), it has no medicinal purpose (helps with nausea and glaucoma)...

So, why lie? Because that is the only support that can be made for its prevention - falsehoods.

It doesn't make much sense.

Trying to tell us that marijuana is not addictive does not make much sense either.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

With marijuana, the same is myths have came into being: it is a gateway drug to harder drugs, it is addictive (which it isn't)

While I agree 100% with the rest of your post, I have to throw in my two cents here: I am convinced that marijuana is addictive, just not in the traditional I-need-a-fix-or-I'll-rip-my-hair-out meaning of the word.

I know several guys practically dependent on toking, and although they might not be afflicted with physical withdrawal syndromes, I doubt they have been sober for more than a week in the last year. Most of them quit school, one guy is on welfare and one of them managed to smoke himself straight into psychiatry (admittedly marijuana was the least of his drug problems..).

 

[stelow]

I am convinced that marijuana is addictive, just not in the traditional I-need-a-fix-or-I'll-rip-my-hair-out meaning of the word.

I know several guys practically dependent on toking

Marijuana withdraw symptoms include (but are not limited to)

depressed mood
headaches
lack of appetite
irritability
anxiety
physical tension
stomach pain
physical tension
restlessness
insomnia
increased aggression / anger
strange dreams
cravings for marijuana

Symptoms of marijuana withdrawal first appear in serious habitual users within the first 8 hours and are the most noticeable during the first 10 days, but withdrawal symptoms can last much longer than this.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Marijuana withdraw symptoms include (but are not limited to)

depressed mood
headaches
lack of appetite
irritability
anxiety
physical tension
stomach pain
physical tension
restlessness
insomnia
increased aggression / anger
strange dreams
cravings for marijuana

Symptoms of marijuana withdrawal first appear in serious habitual users within the first 8 hours and are the most noticeable during the first 10 days, but withdrawal symptoms can last much longer than this.

No, really? (emphasis added)

 

[Beanieboy]

Trying to tell us that marijuana is not addictive does not make much sense either.

It can be said to be "psychologically" addictive, but not physically addictive, like cigarettes.

It also doesn't doesn't cause cancer, like cigarettes.
Nor do you chain smoke a carton of blunts, like you do cigarettes.

I don't think I've ever met someone who needed a THC fix, but have heard and seen people talking about their nic-fit. I have never seen people having a hard time quitting marijuana, but to stop smoking, because of its physical addiction, is much harder.

You go through withdraw with alcohol (the shakes), nicotine (become angry and agitated), which are legal, but don't do that for marijuana.

It's simply criminalized by propaganda, where alcohol and cigarettes, which are legalized, do far more damage, yet, because they are advertized with positive messages ("you've come a long way, baby", "I'd walk a mile for a Camel", "Budweiser, the King of Beers").

 

[Beanieboy]

While I agree 100% with the rest of your post, I have to throw in my two cents here: I am convinced that marijuana is addictive, just not in the traditional I-need-a-fix-or-I'll-rip-my-hair-out meaning of the word.

I know several guys practically dependent on toking, and although they might not be afflicted with physical withdrawal syndromes, I doubt they have been sober for more than a week in the last year. Most of them quit school, one guy is on welfare and one of them managed to smoke himself straight into psychiatry (admittedly marijuana was the least of his drug problems..).

Here, you have said that pot is the least of his drug problems.
People often use drugs as a means of deadening their pain or problems.
One can use anything in that manner.

For example, someone may be obsessed with religion, pray for hours, read the bible for hours, to escape interaction with people or working or dealing with real life problems.

Does that make religion addictive? Not necessarily.

Addiction is very complicated.

People can be sexual addicts. (A friend of mine worked at a place where a guy would touch so many times that he would be raw. But that doesn't make touching yourself and sex addictive in and of themselves.)

Coffee, however, can become physically addictive. It interacts with your body.

But marijuana doesn't.

Again, it depends on how it is used.
Some people use mushrooms, peyote, Morning Glory seeds, and marijuana as part of a sacred worship.
Even tobacco was used as a signing of peace (not cigarettes smoked obsessively).

So, if people are simply misusing these kind of substances to "party", are to fill some kind of void, or avoid dealing with reality, then there will be a tendency for psychological dependence.

Do I see this the same as Native Americans taking part in a ceremony, seeking guidance and wisdom from Peyote?
Not at all. A completely different animal.

I occassionally take Ayahuasca, made of a vine with admixture of leaves, and do it only in a serious, soul searching environment. And I believe that the Great Spirit gives us these things as tools for understanding.

 

[Beanieboy]

Marijuana withdraw symptoms include (but are not limited to)

depressed mood
headaches
lack of appetite
irritability
anxiety
physical tension
stomach pain
physical tension
restlessness
insomnia
increased aggression / anger
strange dreams
cravings for marijuana

Symptoms of marijuana withdrawal first appear in serious habitual users within the first 8 hours and are the most noticeable during the first 10 days, but withdrawal symptoms can last much longer than this.

I take it that you haven't smoked marijuana, because I have, know people who have, and have never experienced withdrawal symptoms like these. Stomach pain? Increased aggression?
Is that how you picture a hippy? They are usually very relaxed, friendly and happy even when stone cold sober.

Substantial research exists regarding marijuana and addiction. While the scientific community has yet to achieve full consensus on this matter, the majority of epidemiological and animal data demonstrate that the reinforcing properties of marijuana in humans is low in comparison to other drugs of abuse, including alcohol and nicotine. According to the U.S. Institute of Medicine (IOM), fewer than one in 10 marijuana smokers become regular users of the drug, and most voluntary cease their use after 34 years of age. By comparison, 15 percent of alcohol consumers and 32 percent of tobacco smokers exhibit symptoms of drug dependence.

According to the IOM, observable cannabis withdrawal symptoms are rare and have only been identified under unique patient settings. These remain limited to adolescents in treatment facilities for substance abuse problems, and in a research setting where subjects were given marijuana or THC daily. Compared with the profound physical syndrome of alcohol or heroin withdrawal, marijuana-related withdrawal symptoms are [mild and subtle. Symptoms may include restlessness, irritability, mild agitation and sleep disruption. However, for the overwhelming majority of marijuana smokers, these symptoms are not severe enough to re-initiate their use of cannabis.

Source:
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3418
http://www.nap.edu/books/0309071550/html/

Again - one has to ask:
If few people experience withdrawal, and those who do experience mild symptoms, why is this illegal, and alcohol (which causes impaired judgement, shakes, destruction of the liver, drunken driving accidents), cigarettes (which cause cancer, and are highly addictive - and even harm those inhaling secondhand smoke), legal?

Number of annual US deaths:
Cigarettes: 435K
Alcohol: 85K
Marijuana: 0

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm

I was once shown a film in HS Health Class.
"With alcohol, you can only drink so much and eventually passout. But with Marijuana, you can keep smoking and smoking..."
Right away, this is false. Every year, college students die from alcohol poisining by doing shots of strong alcohol, chugging whiskey, etc.
No one has ever died of a "marijuana overdose."

But returning to "addiction":
Is there a difference between, say, having a drink of wine with dinner, and going to a frat party and chugging beer?
One is use, and one is abuse.
But, does that make the person drinking wine with dinner an abuser of alcohol?
Does someone being an alcoholic who "craves alcohol" mean that everyone who drinks beer is alcoholic?

http://www.perkel.com/politics/issues/pot.htm
From the website:
"As compared to most drugs, Pot is the least dangerous. Pot is not an addictive drug. For those who claim it is, anything is theoretically addictive, and there are some people who can become addicted to spring water. So to put it in perspective, Pot is less addictive than coffee. I have become addicted to coffee myself and have broken the habit. You get mild headaches for a few days. I have never had any symptoms for withdrawal from Pot"

"Marijuana is also safer, more effective, and has less side effects than many prescription antidepressants."

It also helps nausea, glaucoma...

But as the author says, it doesn't mean you should smoke it every day. You should never operate machinery or drive (whether it is marijuana or drinking or taking cold medicine.)

There is a lot that is positive about it, but it's simply been demonized for so long that people assume that no good can come of it.
Why the need for lies to say how awful it is? To create fear, because lies are really all they have.

 

[whitedove7]

Did you know in Gal. 5:20 in KJV that witchcraft in Greek means:

1. the use or the administering of drugs
2. poisoning
3. sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
4. metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

 

[Trippin]

oi

Did you know in Gal. 5:20 in KJV that witchcraft in Greek means:

1. the use or the administering of drugs
2. poisoning
3. sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
4. metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

two cents, but if i'm wrong honestly want correction.

But i know what your talking about, sorcery = pharmacology. Not in the present text, but in the sence of using drugs to acheive a spiritual state and giving credit to the drugs or "spirits" of the drugs, and not acknowledgeing God.
Shaman often do this, they refuse to change or change their will, but instead use chems to bring them to a certain state where they can heal or whatever they might be after. The same with flying potions used in some types of witchcraft, ect. It's rebelion.

The chems don't really need to be deffended or blamed. Their just there. Sometimes it's good for them to be there. But if it's to the point where your giving the chems respect other than the acknowlegemnet that they can be dangerous, thats when i like them to be gone. At that point they inhibit learning.

late

 

[Im_A]

The Cherub with the flaming sword.

Many Christians believe that the consumption of drugs, such as; marijuana and LSD are considered sinful. This is out of sheer ignorance and fear (and in fear there is misunderstanding).
But if you refer to Mark 7:15: There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

If the church was to remain in the truth then how is it that it preaches that such things as drugs are unclean? Is it what goes into your mouth that will defile you or is it the things that come out of your mouth and out of your actions that will defile you?
Then the church says that drugs lead to sin and corruption; and I would say that so doesn't money but the church is happy to collect that.
Is it drugs that cause a man to sin or is it the mans' own will that causes him to sin?

Marijuana use can be found supported in the bible, if you would refer to Genesis 1:29: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Note-Marijuana is an herb bearing seed and God said he had given every herb bearing seed; and he even said that it was meat.

If you can come into agreement that every herb yielding seed is meat then I would have you refer to 1 Timothy 4:1-4: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving.

Now if God has established that every herb yielding seed is meat (of which marijuana is) and the church preaches that such drugs are bad and to be abstained from then the church is preaching lies in hypocrisy and the doctrine of devils.

Then the church would say that meats mean animals; but then I would have them refer to the part which I had mentioned: For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving.
Is not marijuana one of Gods' creatures and did he not say in Genesis--that he had given every herb yielding seed as meat?

Nonetheless, the church would say that drug addiction is bad and sinful; but then I would say is it the drug that is a sin or gluttony?

i would say that gluttony is more of the sin than the simple use of such drugs. yet scriptures also mention about obeying the laws of the land. so is it kind of a double edged sword here?

i'm not one to say if drug use is a sin or not, cause if it is, then everything else could be put under the same judgement...ie caffeine, alcohol, nicoteine and everything else.

the issues i have with it is, drugs are known to destroy families and people's lives. is the freedom to partake in such things worth the risk of ruining such things, even if it is for a mere use because it supposed "blessed by God" or whatever else out that there. the only way i could see it being "sinful" is if becomes something that destroys the lives of families and the individual and to add complications in society. the same could go with caffeine, nicotein and alcohol.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Did you know in Gal. 5:20 in KJV that witchcraft in Greek means:

1. the use or the administering of drugs

Oh...

I knew my doctor was shady...

 

[Beanieboy]

the issues i have with it is, drugs are known to destroy families and people's lives. is the freedom to partake in such things worth the risk of ruining such things, even if it is for a mere use because it supposed "blessed by God" or whatever else out that there. the only way i could see it being "sinful" is if becomes something that destroys the lives of families and the individual and to add complications in society. the same could go with caffeine, nicotein and alcohol.

I think most people have those save issues with drugs.
But, because I am not alcoholic, but alcoholism exists, does that make drinking bad?

And if so, should we be using wine for Communion?
Should Jesus be turning water into a drug?

Natives use Peyote, for example, but they use it in very sacred ways, and I can't say that because it is a "drug" because it causes hallucination that it is bad. Maybe it is hallucinogenic for a reason. The same could be said of mushrooms, ayahuasca, marijuana, morning glory seeds - plants from the earth. While they are legal in some places and not in others, I question why it is controlled. Someone claims that it is safety issues, but alcoholism and cigarettes kill people. It seems that they have knowledge to offer, and that is what I believe is prevented the most - access to that knowledge.