Drop your theological errors off here...

Goatee · Aug 9, 2017

amariselle said:
I don't recall ever saying He did. But, please, quote me on that if I have perhaps forgotten, and I will most certainly address it.

Also, if you knew what my life was like (anxiety disorder, panic attacks, inability to work, inability to have children) you would not suggest that I believe that Christ died to make life a "dream" for me.

Life is not a "dream" for anyone.

The point is, that though Christ promised we would have many trials and tribulations in this life, we can have hope, because He overcame the world.

I'd encourage you to be careful in what you say. You surely do not want to cause people to question their salvation or the blessed assurance they have in Christ, especially in the midst of life's hardships and pain. For some, that hope is truly all they have.

Yes, as His disciples. We are saved because He picked up His cross and died, we serve Him by picking up ours.

I never said otherwise. Of course we ask for forgiveness, but we do not add works to salvation.

The problem is, I don't think like that either. Perhaps you should ask someone what they actually believe before jumping to such extreme conclusions about their faith.

I by no means have it the worst in life, believe me, but my life has not been a "bed of roses". (Nor has anyone's)

If you've lived with the absolute prison anxiety and panic can be, you'll understand. If you've had to come to the realization that you'll likely never be a parent, though you so truly wanted to be, you'll also understand.

Not to be saved we don't, but as His disciples. And yes, that could cost us everything in this life.

Please stop assuming I am ignorant of that fact. I know that millions have died because they refuse to forsake Jesus or deny Him, and millions more likely will. Even now Christians are being killed around the world for their faith. I truly believe they will receive great rewards in Heaven. Salvation, however, is a gift. Free and unearned. We cannot ever do enough to deserve it.

Anxiety, yes, I suffer with that and depression and some other health issues. Sorry you suffer too.

What I am saying is that even if we are saved by faith we still have to continue as Jesus taught us. We still need to do good works. Remember what Jesus said about not clothing the naked or feeding the hungry etc. If you don't do that but still have faith then Jesus is going yo turn around to you and say that He does not know you!

Goatee · Aug 9, 2017

Works too:

Mark 10:17-31
17 And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’” 20 And he said to him, “Teacher, all these I have observed from my youth.” 21 And Jesus looking upon him loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing; go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 At that saying his countenance fell, and he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.

23 And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it will be for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” 24 And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 26 And they were exceedingly astonished, and said to him, “Then who can be saved?” 27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.” 28 Peter began to say to him, “Lo, we have left everything and followed you.” 29 Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, 30 who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life. 31 But many that are first will be last, and the last first.”

Adstar · Aug 9, 2017

truefiction1 said:
By the power of the Holy Spirit we are made one with God as we eat and drink the food He has given us to eat and drink unto Eternal Life, which is the Kingdom of Heaven.

I don't believe that for a moment.. All those who have rebelled against the Word of God and have taken the traditions of men to be higher then the Word of god have no fellowship with God..

To me this means that you have yourself stated that you will never, ever.. experience the True Joy of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Click to expand...

I am already part of the Kingdom of Heaven through believing Jesus and trusting in the atonement He secured for my salvation..

Regardless, whatever your feelings towards the Church and correlating thoughts, I humbly submit that it is not healthy for you to slander things that you do not understand, which is what you are doing when you call the True Faith "false" (Jude 1:10). How is it that you dare to call an experience that you have never had "false"?

Click to expand...

Easy because the doctrines that i have seen are false.. And many of the doctrines in the OP's list that this false religion cals false are in fact truth..

Woe unto you who substitute truth for lies...

Don't worry the Eternal God of all existence will judge and seperate the goats from his Sheep on day.. And all will see who where following the traditions of men and who where the followers of God..

Hank77 · Aug 9, 2017

HighCherub said:
Then what was the significance of Jesus expressing to Pilate that the Pharisees held the greater sin?

'All sins being equal' seems true when you think of Original Sin- a simple deception ruined man- but it certainly doesn't dictate that there aren't worse sins than others.

I don't think that it is all sin is the same in how evil it may be. It is clear in the Law of Moses that not all sin was punishable by physical death.
What I see in scripture is that breaking any of the laws of Moses was breaking the covenant. So even then God made a way for man to stay in covenant by repentance and sacrifices.

amariselle · Aug 9, 2017

OrthodoxyUSA said:
Two Excedrin and four Ibuprofen go with it every day.

We are commanded to confess with our mouths as it applies. You are acting in "synergy" with God when you ask. Even deciding to open up to Christianity is a work in itself. Everything in compliance with HIS will to spiritually and sometimes physically heal us, takes some small effort on our part. We are not dead, not yet, and we are not totally depraved.

Forgive me...

I too believe in free will.

amariselle · Aug 9, 2017

Goatee said:
Anxiety, yes, I suffer with that and depression and some other health issues. Sorry you suffer too.

What I am saying is that even if we are saved by faith we still have to continue as Jesus taught us. We still need to do good works. Remember what Jesus said about not clothing the naked or feeding the hungry etc.

Don't confuse salvation with discipleship.

Goatee said:
If you don't do that but still have faith then Jesus is going yo turn around to you and say that He does not know you!

I've already addressed this but I'll share those verses again:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 7:21-23

So, first of all, what is "the will of the Father"? We need to know this because unless we do "the will of the Father", Jesus says we will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Thankfully, Jesus Himself tells us:

"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6:38-40

And who is told to "depart"? Those who trusted in Christ alone for salvation? No. Those who brought Christ their "many wonderful works." Those who choose to trust in their "wonderful works" to save them, will not be saved.

Our salvation salvation is Christ plus nothing.

Jesus is not going to tell anyone to "depart" because they did not do enough "good works". Rather, He is going to tell those who have trusted in their "many wonderful works" to be saved (instead of in Christ's one time sacrifice for sin) to "depart."

The reason? He never knew them. He didn't know them and then stop knowing them, he never knew them. Why? Because they did not do the will of the Father and believe on the Son, instead, they tried to earn their way to Heaven and eternal life.

Jesus is the only Way.

Goatee · Aug 9, 2017

Jesus is the only way but one still needs to do the work of God as well as believing in God.

amariselle · Aug 9, 2017

Goatee said:
Jesus is the only way but one still needs to do the work of God as well as believing in God.

I have given you more than enough Scriptural "proof" that we are not and cannot earn salvation, and more importantly, those who chose to stand on their "many wonderful works" for salvation, in any way, will be told to "depart" by Jesus.

Salvation is by faith in Christ and His finished work, plus nothing.

As such, I'm going to put this particular discussion aside now.

God bless.

Goatee · Aug 9, 2017

amariselle said:
I have given you more than enough Scriptural "proof" that we are not and cannot earn salvation, and more importantly, those who chose to stand on their "many wonderful works" for salvation, in any way, will be told to "depart" by Jesus.

Salvation is by faith in Christ and His finished work, plus nothing.

As such, I'm going to put this particular discussion aside now.

God bless.

Yes, we must have faith in Jesus. We must believe.

Will a murderer who believes in Jesus and has 100% faith in Him be saved? If he wants to be saved he also needs to do works. What works? He needs to repent. Seek absolution. He needs to go down on his knees and beg for forgiveness. These are works he has to do!

Faith and Works | Catholic Answers

amariselle · Aug 9, 2017

Goatee said:
Yes, we must have faith in Jesus. We must believe.

Will a murderer who believes in Jesus and has 100% faith in Him be saved? If he wants to be saved he also needs to do works. What works? He needs to repent. Seek absolution. He needs to go down on his knees and beg for forgiveness. These are works he has to do!

Faith and Works | Catholic Answers

Let me ask you something:

Do you believe that Christ "by Himself purged" our sins, that His one time sacrifice for all, His blood poured out for us is enough to save all who believe on Him?

Goatee · Aug 9, 2017

amariselle said:
Let me ask you something:

Do you believe that Christ "by Himself purged" our sins, that His one time sacrifice for all, His blood poured out for us is enough to save all who believe on Him?

Yes, but we have to do our bit too. We need to repent and ask forgiveness when we sin. Jesus sent out His Apostles to forgive sins or retain them.

The OUR FATHER PRAYER asks us to ask God to 'Forgive us our Tresspasses'.

We have to pick up our cross and 'Follow Jesus.

FenderTL5 · Aug 9, 2017

amariselle said:
Don't confuse salvation with discipleship.

Just for clarification; does this mean you advocate salvation apart from discipleship? In other words, one can be 'saved' whether or not one is a disciple/follower of Christ?

amariselle · Aug 9, 2017

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)

7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.- Romans 10:1-13

amariselle · Aug 9, 2017

FenderTL5 said:
Just for clarification; does this mean you advocate salvation apart from discipleship? In other words, one can be 'saved' whether or not one is a disciple/follower of Christ?

No. Once we are saved, we can then become His disciples.

Apart from Christ we can do nothing. (John 15)

Without faith it is impossible to please God. (Hebrews 11)

FenderTL5 · Aug 9, 2017

amariselle said:
..Once we are saved, we can then become His disciples..

Then your answer would be a "yes", wouldn't it?
You are saying that one is 'saved' prior to becoming a disciple, are you not?

amariselle · Aug 9, 2017

Goatee said:
Yes, but we have to do our bit too. We need to repent and ask forgiveness when we sin. Jesus sent out His Apostles to forgive sins or retain them.

The OUR FATHER PRAYER asks us to ask God to 'Forgive us our Tresspasses'.

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures...- 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

That's the Gospel that saves us, period.

3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. - Galatians 1:3-9

Goatee said:
We have to pick up our cross and 'Follow Jesus.

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, 'If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.'"- Matthew 16:24

Does this verse say that we need to deny ourselves and take up our "cross" to be saved? Or does this verse instead tell us what we must do as His disciples (whom He was initially speaking these words to) to follow after Him?

amariselle · Aug 9, 2017

FenderTL5 said:
Then your answer would be a "yes", wouldn't it?
You are saying that one is 'saved' prior to becoming a disciple, are you not?

I am saying discipleship follows salvation and that one cannot even be a true disciple if one is not saved.

Actually, that's what the Bible says. So, that's what I believe.

FenderTL5 · Aug 9, 2017

amariselle said:
I am saying discipleship follows salvation and that one cannot even be a true disciple if one is not saved.

You are saying, in every post, that one is saved then afterwards there's discipleship (or not in the above).
So how is that not salvation apart from discipleship?
The question becomes, is discipleship optional?

1stcenturylady · Aug 9, 2017

amariselle said:
Of course I sin, and of course I ask for forgiveness. Have I ever once said I'm perfect?

How do we become perfect, as Jesus told us to?

HighCherub · Aug 9, 2017

Salvation is not unconditional; it's not something you simply cosign and keep as a 'Get Out of Hell Free' card when Judgement comes.

And that's a primary theological issue for those who mistake 'Faith Alone' as being 'faith without works', or in some way try to sit on the fence when it comes to what merits salvation.

Drop your theological errors off here...

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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