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Thank you, that is what I was asking. We see in John 6 that all who are drawn are raised up, do you believe that everyone (all meaning all) will get to heaven someday?Crystal71503 said:i think he comes to each and every person at least once in their life, then i think we choose to either recieve or reject the gift of salvation...if thats what you meant.
I quoted John Gill BT, are you quoting someone?Joh 6:44 - No man can come to me,.... That is, by faith, as in Joh_6:35; for otherwise they could corporeally come to him, but not spiritually; because they had neither power nor will of themselves; being dead in trespasses and sins, and impotent to everything that is spiritual: and whilst men are in a state of unregeneracy, blindness, and darkness, they see no need of coming to Christ, nor anything in him worth coming for; they are prejudiced against him, and their hearts are set on other things; and besides, coming to Christ and believing in Christ being the same thing, it is certain faith is not of a man's self, it is the gift of God, and the operation of his Spirit; and therefore efficacious grace must be exerted to enable a soul to come to Christ; which is expressed in the following words,
except the Father which hath sent me, draw him: which is not to be understood of moral persuasion, or a being persuaded and prevailed upon to come to Christ by the consideration of the mighty works which God had done to justify that he was the true Messiah, but of the internal and powerful influence of the grace of God; for this act of drawing is something distinct from, and superior to, both doctrine and miracles. The Capernaites had heard the doctrine of Christ, which was taught with authority, and had seen his miracles, which were full proofs of his being the Messiah, and yet believed not, but murmured at his person and parentage. This gave occasion to Christ to observe to them, that something more than these was necessary to their coming to him, or savingly believing in him; even the powerful and efficacious grace of the Father in drawing: and if it be considered what men in conversion are drawn off "from" and "to", from their beloved lusts and darling righteousness; to look unto, and rely upon Christ alone for salvation; from that which was before so very agreeable, to that which, previous to this work, was so very disagreeable; to what else can this be ascribed, but to unfrustrable and insuperable grace? but though this act of drawing is an act of power, yet not of force; God in drawing of unwilling, makes willing in the day of his power: he enlightens the understanding, bends the will, gives an heart of flesh, sweetly allures by the power of his grace, and engages the soul to come to Christ, and give up itself to him; he draws with the bands of love. Drawing, though it supposes power and influence, yet not always coaction and force: music draws the ear, love the heart, and pleasure the mind. "Trahit sua quemque voluptas", says the poet. The Jews have a saying (t), that the proselytes, in the days of the Messiah, shall be all of them, גרים גרורים, "proselytes drawn": that is, such as shall freely and voluntarily become proselytes, as those who are drawn by the Father are.
And I will raise him at the last day; See Gill on Joh_6:40; compare with this verse Joh_6:40.
And how does one hear the Gospel? They are drawn by the Father, Acts 16, Lydia's heart was opened by God. Why does one accept salvation and another refuses the offer?BT said:Does the Father draw all men? No. So who does He draw? Those who have heard.
God uses the preaching of the Gospel to regenerate the unsaved.Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Ephesians 1:5-6: " he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."John 6:44 still does not prove election to damnation, or election to salvation. Rather it speaks of the effectual conviction of the Spirit. The Jews were being obstinate. They needed to understand that Christ and the Father are One and that to turn to Christ is to please the Father, not forsake Him. Just 4 verses up (John 6:40) Jesus says, "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." Belief on the part of the sinner is mandatory and an act of will... This verse does not show total inability or undeniable grace either. It doesn't say that those who are drawn are automatically saved, or must be saved. I don't think this passage has anything to do with salvation contextually. This shows the urgency of evangelism.
PS. I love that cartoon..it's so... right.
BT no need man, focus on what you need to focus on...don't let me distract you. I must make you feel like you're banging your head against a brick wall, anyways.BT said:I'll answer tomorrow brother.. right now I'm whipped. I have to finish a paper on "The Existence of Satan" and I don't know if I have the mental wherewithal to finish it tonight even. So tomorrow when I get a chance I'll come by and give you an answer.
It does not say that all who are drawn by the Father are raised up in the last day. It says that all that come to Him, having been drawn by the Father, are raised up in the last day.Street Preacher said:Thank you, that is what I was asking. We see in John 6 that all who are drawn are raised up, do you believe that everyone (all meaning all) will get to heaven someday?
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Don't take these questions the wrong way, brothers like BT have given me plenty to think about over the last couple of weeks and I ask seeking understanding of the different views of Scripture.
SP
There is a general call given to all who hear the gospel . In this sense Christ said, "I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners" (Matt.9:13), and "if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me" (John 12:32). But, this call is not always heeded, as demonstrated by the fact that Christ also said, "For many are called, but few are chosen" (Matt. 22:14). I do believe there is a divine drawing that is not resisted and is termed an "effecacious call" (John 6:44). I believe God produces upon those who will make up the Church through an influence which assures their reception of Christ as Savior.Street Preacher said:Are all people drawn to the Father and then we accept the gift of salvation?
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