Drain the Swamp

[Vambram]

Drain the Swamp

It may become possible to restore constitutional government in place of the administrative or bureaucratic state that has almost overtaken it. That is the issue that matters the most. The worst evils stem from it. The strongest resistance guards its entrenchment.

imprimis.hillsdale.edu

In 1930, the Federal government consumed about 12 percent of the nation's GDP. Today, the Federal government handles almost 50 percent of the nation's wealth. This is a gigantic transfer of resources from the private to the public sector, which defies the definition of a free society.

 

[KCfromNC]

In 1930, the Federal government consumed about 12 percent of the nation's GDP. Today, the Federal government handles almost 50 percent of the nation's wealth.

Gosh, I wonder if there was anything peculiar happening to the US economy in 1930. But it must have been Great, let's do that again.

More seriously, federal spending as a % of GDP has been a pretty steady 20-ish% since the end of WW2, with a small spike at the end of Trump's first term. Not sure where this 50% is coming from, but there's probably a reason for the nonsense term "handles" rather than talking about actual spending.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Gosh, I wonder if there was anything peculiar happening to the US economy in 1930. But it must have been Great, let's do that again.

More seriously, federal spending as a % of GDP has been a pretty steady 20-ish% since the end of WW2, with a small spike at the end of Trump's first term. Not sure where this 50% is coming from, but there's probably a reason for the nonsense term "handles" rather than talking about actual spending.

Well, now I am interested but finding answers is not so easy. Where did the Lecture in OP get data. here is what I found so far w=frm wiki,

So in 2010 you are right 20%. Ai tell us: The federal government's spending in fiscal year 2023 was 22.7% of the nation's GDP, or $6.1 trillion. This was made up of about 90% of the total going to federal programs and the remaining 10% going to interest payments on the federal debt. As of the third quarter of 2023, the US government's total expenditure was estimated to be 36.2% of the total GDP. The total expenditure was $10,007.7 billion, while the total GDP was $27,610.1 billion.

also https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/GBR/SWE/ESP/ITA/ZAF/IND

Historical graph here:

United States Government Spending To GDP

Government spending in the United States was last recorded at 34.4 percent of GDP in 2023 . This page provides - United States Government Spending To Gdp- actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

tradingeconomics.com

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Drain the Swamp

It may become possible to restore constitutional government in place of the administrative or bureaucratic state that has almost overtaken it. That is the issue that matters the most. The worst evils stem from it. The strongest resistance guards its entrenchment.

imprimis.hillsdale.edu

In 1930, the Federal government consumed about 12 percent of the nation's GDP. Today, the Federal government handles almost 50 percent of the nation's wealth. This is a gigantic transfer of resources from the private to the public sector, which defies the definition of a free society.

The United States operates as a free society. Recently, the American people elected a new leader to head the US government. If dissatisfied, citizens have the opportunity to elect new legislators in two years and a new head of state in four years. The officials in charge are placed there by the people's choice.

 

[probinson]

More seriously, federal spending as a % of GDP has been a pretty steady 20-ish% since the end of WW2, with a small spike at the end of Trump's first term.

Federal spending as a % of GDP has been steadily increasing and hasn't been "20-ish%" since 1951.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I love how mutable the concept of "The Swamp" is.

Once upon a time it was lobbyists and corruption in government.
Yesterday is was Democratic politicians like the Clintons, Obama, Biden and Pelosi.
Today it is government itself.

 

[Hans Blaster]

More seriously, federal spending as a % of GDP has been a pretty steady 20-ish% since the end of WW2, with a small spike at the end of Trump's first term. Not sure where this 50% is coming from, but there's probably a reason for the nonsense term "handles" rather than talking about actual spending.

And weirdly the 50% is of "wealth", not income or GDP. Wealth is the value of stuff and not related to GDP. (This is an error in the article, not by the OP.)

 

[rambot]

I wonder if part of the problem is the centralization of wealth into the hands of very few people who could not POSSIBLY be spending enough money to keep the economy moving.

All the money trapped in the dragon hordes is paralyzing the system.

 

[KCfromNC]

Federal spending as a % of GDP has been steadily increasing and hasn't been "20-ish%" since 1951.

Fiscal Data Explains Federal Spending

Check out @FiscalService Fiscal Data’s new federal spending page! #FederalSpending

fiscaldata.treasury.gov

Not sure where you're getting this chart, but the US treasury seems to disagree : Fiscal Data Explains Federal Spending

The federal government spent $6.75 trillion in FY 2022. This means federal spending was equal to 23% of the total gross domestic product (GDP), or economic activity, of the United States that year.​

 

[essentialsaltes]

I'm guessing that previous chart was total federal/state/local:

The US government's Bureau of Economic Analysis as of Q3 2023 estimates $10,007.7 billion in annual total government expenditure and $27,610.1 billion annual total GDP which is 36.2%

 

[Vambram]

The United States operates as a free society. Recently, the American people elected a new leader to head the US government. If dissatisfied, citizens have the opportunity to elect new legislators in two years and a new head of state in four years. The officials in charge are placed there by the people's choice.

What are your feelings about the desires by many, many Americans to drain the swamp, i.e., significantly reduce the millions of people working in the federal government bureaucracies? I could be wrong, but I am certain that many, many, many federal government employees in the bureaucracies have career jobs there outlasting the length of service of many of our politicians.

 

[essentialsaltes]

What are your feelings about the desires by many, many Americans

Feelings about feelings? Is this what we're reduced to for political discourse?

 

[Vambram]

Feelings about feelings? Is this what we're reduced to for political discourse?

I apologize. Instead, I should have asked for opinions.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

What are your feelings about the desires by many, many Americans to drain the swamp, i.e., significantly reduce the millions of people working in the federal government bureaucracies? I could be wrong, but I am certain that many, many, many federal government employees in the bureaucracies have career jobs there outlasting the length of service of many of our politicians.

Using terms like "bureaucrats" or "government cushy jobs" can be seen as a way to negatively portray a group of fellow Americans. In reality, 99% of government workers are public servants who are serving America.

However, you are correct that many Americans believe public servants retain their positions without making significant contributions while receiving high compensation. This perception is often misguided, as there is limited awareness about the roles and responsibilities of government employees.

I have traveled extensively, and it is very unfortunate that only Americans view government worker as a "swamp," while in other industrialized countries, citizens regard government workers as "civil servants."

 

[Vambram]

Using terms like "bureaucrats" or "government cushy jobs" can be seen as a way to negatively portray a group of fellow Americans. In reality, 99% of government workers are public servants who are serving America.

However, you are correct that many Americans believe public servants retain their positions without making significant contributions while receiving high compensation. This perception is often misguided, as there is limited awareness about the roles and responsibilities of government employees.

I have traveled extensively, and it is very unfortunate that only Americans view government worker as a "swamp," while in other industrialized countries, citizens regard government workers as "civil servants."

Thank you for your point of view. May I ask you if you believe that there are too many employees and/or bureaucrats in the Federal Government?

 

[probinson]

I'm guessing that previous chart was total federal/state/local:

The US government's Bureau of Economic Analysis as of Q3 2023 estimates $10,007.7 billion in annual total government expenditure and $27,610.1 billion annual total GDP which is 36.2%

Yes, this appears to be correct. The chart I posted came directly from the link in post #3. That chart lists "US Government Spending to GDP", which would seem to include more than just federal spending.

 

[rambot]

Thank you for your point of view. May I ask you if you believe that there are too many employees and/or bureaucrats in the Federal Government?

It's not my business of course, but "too many" is a very relative term. Moreso if you are not sure what everyone's job is.

 

[rjs330]

Using terms like "bureaucrats" or "government cushy jobs" can be seen as a way to negatively portray a group of fellow Americans. In reality, 99% of government workers are public servants who are serving America.

However, you are correct that many Americans believe public servants retain their positions without making significant contributions while receiving high compensation. This perception is often misguided, as there is limited awareness about the roles and responsibilities of government employees.

I have traveled extensively, and it is very unfortunate that only Americans view government worker as a "swamp," while in other industrialized countries, citizens regard government workers as "civil servants."

I definitely think the majority of government workers are just doing their job. There are those though that are totally ideological and will work directly to interfere with an administration, or set ideological standards. The swamp, rhe way i understand it, are those that are running direct interference to prevent or obstruct any agenda that is created to limit the size and power of the government.

That is not necessarily the typical worker, but those who have the actual power in the agencies.

An example is the FBI. The majority of the agents and worker bees are just doing their assigned jobs to the best of their abilities. While those in power are using it for a political purpose to grant favor to one group while pursuing another in an attempt to harm them.

Same goes for rhe DOJ.

Then there are agencies who are filled with ideologues such as the Dept of Education. Mostly because they belong to a group who typically is very left leaning in ideology.

I honestly don't know how other governments operate in comparison with the US. I do.find it difficult to believe that everyone in other countries loves their beurocrats and thinks they are all wonderful civil servants.

 

[Arcangl86]

Thank you for your point of view. May I ask you if you believe that there are too many employees and/or bureaucrats in the Federal Government?

The federal government, in the sense of direct government employees, is actually pretty small. Excluding those in the armed services it's about 2.4 million people. It's about 3.6 with the military, (I'm excluding reservists here) and the size of the federal government has more or less fluctuated between 3 and 4 million people since the 40s. The population of the country on the other hand has exploded, meaning fair more work needs to be done. But focusing on the civilian aspect of the work force, 60% of those are in just three departments, Defense, VA and DHS. Most of the other agencies are pretty small. For instance, the ED, a common target, only has about 4000 employees. My local school district is over twice as large.

The area where things do get out of control I think is the sheer amount of contractors the federal government uses. And from my understanding, it's actually more expensive to use contractors then just hiring them as GS employees. But that has become the norm over the years, and I agree it's something that should be looked at.

 

[Vambram]

How many people work for the federal government? | USAFacts

The federal government employs around 3 million people, making it the nation's 15th largest workforce.

usafacts.org

This article is about a 5 minute read. However, I wish that it would also have given information about the amounts of employees of federal contractors. It would not shock me if that particular number is close to a million more people.