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Dr. Hovind's Theories

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annalisa201

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I've had a life-changing few months, and Praise the Lord for it all. And thank you all for the support.

I'm coming again with a challenge. I've found such proof of God, and I want to get opinions about it - and I dare all of you to disprove what Dr. Hoovind says. It's been amazing to see such plain black and white answers to everything we all question. Please, I'd like to get more opinions, as it convinced me right away - But maybe I'm just too niave, and I'm certainly no science wiz...

drdino.com/downloads.php

I've seen the Age of the Earth Option 1... What do you all think?



Annalisa
 

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Amen Assyrian! Hovind is a rather touchy subject because he so severly misrepresents science and has been shown to repeatedly falsify evidence. He's a really great speaker, but his videos are absolutely full of half-truths or outright lies.

If you'd like to discuss any particular point, I'd love to go over them with you... perhaps I'll bring up video 1 again and go through the beginning point by point as far as I can with limited time.

There are a lot of people on this board that view the first few chapters of Genesis as very historical but who don't necessarily support Hovind. I would direct you to AIG or ICR (google should bring them up) for a more honest presentation of creationist understanding.

Of course, you might have guessed by now that I don't hold the position supported by these organizations, but as you've said you have had quite a wild ride, I certainly don't want to jump on you and risk hurting your fully justified faith in God (which I fully share) because of the deceitful teaching of one man.
 
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Deamiter

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My summary:

he goes on for a few minutes talking about the age of the Earth and how evolution says we came from rocks. Note that this is no foundational part of the theory of evolution -- the theory actually says nothing at all about where life first came from, it only describes the mechanism by which diversity accumulates in a population.

Abiogenesis is the idea that life came from non-living material (usually organic molecules) and quite a bit of interesting research has been done in the area -- especially in self-replicating molecules. However, no scientist knows or claims to know that this is what happened.

At five minutes in he then says that Cain married his sister. If this part of the Bible were meant historically (and not as a story similar to parables that also convey truth) then humans would not have more than two blood types (only one if Eve had the same as Adam). To claim that our blood types just HAPPENED to evolve in a few thousand years (because that's what evolution is -- the change of the frequency of traits in a population) and HAPPENED to evolve to mirror exactly those found in apes and other mammals is actually supporting a hyper-fast evolution that is never found in nature.

The same issue is found with eye and hair color etc...

Interestingly enough, the Bible uses many literary techniques that were common to the other cultures in the area including inflating the ages of important patriarchs. The Assyrian Kings list (easily found on Wikipedia if you're interested) inflates the ages of the Assyrian leaders by hundreds to thousands of years. They end up (If I recall correctly) with about 28,000 years in the list of Kings. It was in no way meant as a lie -- they weren't hyper-literal about their history as we were. The inflation was meant to inspire a sense of awe that gives great importance to the leaders. It also serves to set one's ancestors apart from other tribes or empires and you'll note that ages are never inflated (in the Bible or Assyrian or Egyptian literature) for other country's leaders.

It's a huge mistake to read the Bible as a modern historical account because their culture just didn't put any sort of importance on details but on meaning.

Now Hovind says, "this is a big problem because the credibility of the book of Genesis is at stake." He calls those who disagree that it's a historical account a "cult" because we'd need to talk to them to understand what it means (i.e. a form of Gnosticism or secret knowledge).

The bit he's missing is that the real meaning behind Genesis is not in the details of who married who when and lived how long, but in describing God's relationship with man. The first few chapters were designed to directly counter the Assyrian and Egyptian religions that had gods throughout nature. The Bible begins by essentially saying, "you know your sun god and your rain god etc...? OUR God created them!" Is it somehow a lie to use narrative language to portray this truth? In our culture it might be, but we're far FAR from the nomadic pre-enlightment culture and it would be utter arrogance to claim that the Bible must conform to our ultra-literal historical reporting standards in order for it to contain truth!

He mentions that nearly every other book in the Bible refers back to Genesis, and Jesus in particular quoted it 25 times, but look at some of those quotes. Jesus always refers to scripture in trying to teach the deeper non-literal meaning. And it's not just Jesus, the New Testement is chock full of the authors teaching and interpreting the meaning behind the "plain reading" of scriptures. Quite simply, Genesis wasn't written to just be read as history but as a deeply meaningful book with truth that WOULDN'T be obvious to somebody who had never studied the Hebrew culture.

Oh, good, at about 9:00 minutes in, he starts talking about science. First off he talks about how if people reproduced exponentially it couldn't have sustained life for longer than a few thousand years without overwhelming the Earth.

It's utter nonsense. Rabbits reproduce much faster than we do -- why haven't THEY overtaken the entire Earth? Simply because of predators and a lack of resources. The human population was reduced (in Europe) by a full third by the Black Plague! Quite simply, it wasn't until we had the technology to make our resources essentially unlimited and to reduce our susceptability to predators and disease that the Earth's population started taking off.

This is such a horrible argument it's one that I would claim is terribly dishonest. On its face it seems reasonable, but it's really got nothing supporting it. He even claims that the curve looks like it starts at a global flood -- this is also absolute nonsense. He DESIGNED the curve to go from 8 people to 8 billion in exactly the time he thinks it took.

Then he comes up with anti-human quotes from a number of pretty crazy humans... I don't think any evolutionist listens to Prince Phillip as a source of their beliefs, so when he says we need to reduce the Earth's population we don't much care.

Meh, I need to get to work, and I'd hoped to get through more actual science, but as you can see Hovind doesn't really stick to facts very often. I'd strongly suggest reviewing the Answers in Genesis (a young-earth creationist organization) and their list of arguments creationists shouldn't use. Many of Hovind's arguments are on this list and it gives reasons why they aren't particularly useful or honest.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/faq/dont_use.asp
 
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Mallon

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Yeeeee...awwwkward!
Suffice it to say, Hovind is a lying, snake-oil salesman, as even many YECs will admit to. His tactics work exactly because you are not a science whiz. I won't trounce him here, but it doesn't take much googling to expose this guy for what he is.
If you want to discuss anything in particular he has to say, then by all means, we can. But I'm with Assyrian on this one -- root your faith in the saving message of the gospel, rather than in any "evidence" Hovind brings to the table.
 
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ChristBearer

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Yeeeee...awwwkward!
Suffice it to say, Hovind is a lying, snake-oil salesman, as even many YECs will admit to. His tactics work exactly because you are not a science whiz. I won't trounce him here, but it doesn't take much googling to expose this guy for what he is.
If you want to discuss anything in particular he has to say, then by all means, we can. But I'm with Assyrian on this one -- root your faith in the saving message of the gospel, rather than in any "evidence" Hovind brings to the table.

A lot of people hate him, sure, that doesn't mean he's all the evil things you call him to be. He has made videos answering critics who accuse him of faulty things. For example: He never assaulted anyone, but sites keep saying he does. They take his words out of context and continue to spread false rumors about the man.

I believe Hovind gives outstanding evidence for creation. If any of you really think you can beat him in a debate, then why don't you call Eric Hovind I believe he would travel to where you live on his own expense and debate you. Post up the results. It's simply too easy to bash Hovinds points behind a screen. I've seen many professors lose in debates with Hovind, which tells a lot.
 
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Melethiel

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You can video google his debates and watch them for free.
I would prefer that you link me to the ones that you feel are the best example of "professors losing to him." I don't have time to sift through dozens of videos, and since you have seen them, you will know which ones are the most worth watching.
 
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Deamiter

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Do you really consider an oral debate to be a measure of whether a position is true or not? What I see in those debates is that Hovind runs all over the place and touches on dozens of different areas of science. The professors simply don't have enough time to show detailed research into radiometric decay rates or an actual geologic column.

It's great for preaching to an uneducated crowd that want's quick answers they can understand without any work, but the evidence just doesn't back up his claims.

There are also a number of point-by-point refutations of Hovind's seminars on YouTube and Google Videos. Unfortunately, many of them actively promote atheism so I find some of their points (which assume Hovind speaks for all Christianity) rather offensive and wouldn't want to post a link here. Still, if you are really interested in the truth of Hovind's claims, I'd suggest you watch one or two and look carefully for the majority of scientific misinformation. Yeah, you'll catch a bit of anti-theism, but only where Hovind stops discussing science and starts preaching theology (which can't be addressed scientifically anyway).
 
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Deamiter

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I'm not a good speaker, but I can reference sources and research claims very well. Why do you think it is that nobody remotely connected to Hovind will ever agree to a written debate? Hovind claims it's because he's a bad typer, but surely not EVERYBODY in his family (many of whom work for him) is a poor typer! If Hovind could stick to a single claim and cite evidence to counter objections, I'd be much more convinced. Instead, he relies on good speaking skills and what's called "preaching to the choir" where his claims cannot stand up to close scrutiny or a quick fact check, but sound really good and impressive when first encountered.
 
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Melethiel

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I didn't watch the entire debate, but fast-forwarded to key areas. My initial impression is that the professor gave a very concise and detailed presentation (not surprising...), while Hovind jumped all over the place and didn't even touch on the professors points. You call that a win?
 
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ChristBearer

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Do you really consider an oral debate to be a measure of whether a position is true or not?

Actually... yes I do. Online I find that discussions often have a lot of misrepresented info that are copy and pasted off the internet. This happens so abundantly that I believe the only way we can contrast whose telling the truth and not is in a live debate. Hovind (to my knowledge) has beaten every college professor to date. I've yet to see him lose. The only time he was so-n-so was with Hugh Ross.
 
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ChristBearer

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I didn't watch the entire debate, but fast-forwarded to key areas. My initial impression is that the professor gave a very concise and detailed presentation (not surprising...), while Hovind jumped all over the place and didn't even touch on the professors points. You call that a win?

Didn't touch his points?! You need to watch it over without skipping. Yes I call it a win, he tore it up. The guy ended up asking what to teach in class when it comes to origins in the end, why do you think he would do so?
 
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Deamiter

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Well let's get to details. I commented above on Hovind's argument (from the video on the age of the Earth) that if the earth was older than about 6000 years (with a flood 4000 years ago) the Earth would be overrun with humans. Do you find this position convincing? Is Hovind right that the current human population and population growth disproves an old earth?

To give a start to my contradiction of his argument, I'll quote myself from above for convenience. If you honestly do agree that he's telling the truth that population and growth rates are evidence AGAINST old age, I'll be glad to show you more concrete numbers and go into much more detail.
First off he talks about how if people reproduced exponentially it couldn't have sustained life for longer than a few thousand years without overwhelming the Earth.

It's utter nonsense. Rabbits reproduce much faster than we do -- why haven't THEY overtaken the entire Earth? Simply because of predators and a lack of resources. The human population was reduced (in Europe) by a full third by the Black Plague! Quite simply, it wasn't until we had the technology to make our resources essentially unlimited and to reduce our susceptability to predators and disease that the Earth's population started taking off.

This is such a horrible argument it's one that I would claim is terribly dishonest. On its face it seems reasonable, but it's really got nothing supporting it. He even claims that the curve looks like it starts at a global flood -- this is also absolute nonsense. He DESIGNED the curve to go from 8 people to 8 billion in exactly the time he thinks it took.

Alternately, feel free to pick one or two of your favorite points that we could discuss in detail. I'd like to discuss those that YOU find most convincing, but since you haven't mentioned any specific points, I'll just go with one of the first on the video mentioned in the OP.
 
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Dannager

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Actually... yes I do. Online I find that discussions often have a lot of misrepresented info that are copy and pasted off the internet. This happens so abundantly that I believe the only way we can contrast whose telling the truth and not is in a live debate. Hovind (to my knowledge) has beaten every college professor to date. I've yet to see him lose. The only time he was so-n-so was with Hugh Ross.
There are so many things incredibly wrong about the above post that I don't know where to start.

ChristBearer, creationists refuse to use Hovind's arguments to support their claims. He's just that wrong. He has absolutely zero credibility. Charisma and a sleazy charm do not make up for a lack of truth.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I've had a life-changing few months, and Praise the Lord for it all. And thank you all for the support.

I'm coming again with a challenge. I've found such proof of God, and I want to get opinions about it - and I dare all of you to disprove what Dr. Hoovind says. It's been amazing to see such plain black and white answers to everything we all question. Please, I'd like to get more opinions, as it convinced me right away - But maybe I'm just too niave, and I'm certainly no science wiz...

drdino.com/downloads.php

I've seen the Age of the Earth Option 1... What do you all think?



Annalisa
Shalom in Yahshua and in the one true Creator Yahweh for you annlisa and all who love the Truth without wavering.

Your question is sort of like those who questioned the synogogue members about Yahshua(Jesus). Some of them knew him and knew he was sent from heaven, but many others did not.

The Apostle Paul wrote that many(i.e. not just a few) deceivers(liers) were ALREADY in the congregation and would continue after he was gone. So it is written, so it is.

Hovind is just one of several telling the truth publicly.

Most in public won't admit the truth even if they know it, for fear of losing their job/family/prestige/money.

In public (remember public is wrong according to Scripture)
it is not correct to publish the Truth of Scripture -
some ministers/speakers have been arrested for doing so (in U.S.A!)
and more will be arrested daily as that great and glorious day approaches when Yahshua returns to rule.

In the meantime, ungodliness will continue to rise and gain power.
The rulers of this earth will viciously hunt and persecute and put in prison and execute as many as they can just as they have planned.
(and just as it is written in Scripture )

Every day this is occurring now, for the last 100 years or more, in countries all over the earth. Google and be surprised how many people are dying every day for their faith and testimony in Yahshua(Jesus). Faith AND testimony - they are not quiet about their living and true Saviour, but keep telling people about HIM !

Like hovind, brought before judges for exposing/telling the truth.

Like Yahshua(Jesus) said would happen, just as it happened to the Master Himself and to many of His disciples
 
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Markus6

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Actually... yes I do. Online I find that discussions often have a lot of misrepresented info that are copy and pasted off the internet. This happens so abundantly that I believe the only way we can contrast whose telling the truth and not is in a live debate. Hovind (to my knowledge) has beaten every college professor to date. I've yet to see him lose. The only time he was so-n-so was with Hugh Ross.
Most of the misrepresented info can be countered by a very quick google.

How do you define a win in a live debate? Every debate I've watched with Hovind runs basically the same way. The opposition is a nerdy professor with poor communication skills who is obviously very intelligent and knows a lot about evolution. Unfortunately most of the things he says go over the heads of everyone watching because he's not very easy to listen to and is talking too technically. Hovind is a great communicator, can make everyone in the room understand what he is saying and make it sound like the simplist thing in the world. He sticks to simple topics, covering lots but in not much depth and sticking to the same stuff he always says. He doesn't really address the oppositions points. In the end the audience go away thinking Hovind has kicked some ass unless they have a lot of knowledge in biology and a very long attention span.
 
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Willtor

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Actually... yes I do. Online I find that discussions often have a lot of misrepresented info that are copy and pasted off the internet. This happens so abundantly that I believe the only way we can contrast whose telling the truth and not is in a live debate. Hovind (to my knowledge) has beaten every college professor to date. I've yet to see him lose. The only time he was so-n-so was with Hugh Ross.

Once you've been in college for a few years, watch the debates again and see if you still think Mr. Hovind wins debates. Even if your major is unrelated to evolution, and even if you still think evolution is bunk, as long as your major is in science or engineering, see if you still think his debates are good.

I think you'll find that most professors are not accustomed to formal debates and are not necessarily the best presenters. In fact, colleges frequently support professors who are strong at research; possibly at the expense of the ability to present, orally. When they speak, it is to educate, not to persuade. The debaters who stand out most strongly in most peoples minds are those who are better able to persuade, not necessarily educate.

I'll give you an example: The last Presidential/Vice-Presidential debates. Kerry and Cheney clearly trounced their opponents based on content. But most people thought that Bush and Edwards won. Why? They were charismatic. Charisma carries a lot more weight than content. Pathos is more persuasive than either ethos or logos. In the Kennedy/Nixon debates, the TV audience overwhelmingly gave them to Kennedy, whereas the radio audience was pretty evenly divided.

Concern yourself with the content of Mr. Hovind's message. Look into what he's saying. Take his statements, one by one and piece by piece. See if he's "on the level."
 
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