doubting faith

[jollyjosh]

if there is a God then why would God create human beings because God knows the future so God would know that all this bad stuff would happen and if that is the case then God might be cruel.

and if God has a plan for our lives why does it involve so much suffering.

and i just had like a big dive head first into my faith trying to make it work and it just seems like it has been thrown in my face.

and i try to be the best christian i can by reading my bible everyday and not swearing and avoiding temptation and i go to church every week and play bass in the band and nothing we can do will make God love us more but it says people who do his work will be blessed and i havent been getting many blessings.

how do we know that our faith is not just a figment of our imagination?

 

[bethdinsmore]

if there is a God then why would God create human beings because God knows the future so God would know that all this bad stuff would happen and if that is the case then God might be cruel.
I don't think you would be cruel if you chose to bring a child into this world, as long as you cared for him as God cares for us.


and if God has a plan for our lives why does it involve so much suffering.
Because we live in a sinful world, and....
1 Pet 1:6-7
6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
7 that the proof of your faith, {being} more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
(NAS)
Gen 50:20
20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.
(NIV) (And Joseph benefitted as well).
James 1:2-4
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds,
3 because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.
4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
(NIV)
Rom 8:18
18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.
(NIV)

If you put your cursor over my CF character, you'll see another reason for suffering.

and i just had like a big dive head first into my faith trying to make it work and it just seems like it has been thrown in my face.

and i try to be the best christian i can by reading my bible everyday and not swearing and avoiding temptation and i go to church every week and play bass in the band and nothing we can do will make God love us more but it says people who do his work will be blessed and i havent been getting many blessings.

how do we know that our faith is not just a figment of our imagination?

To begin with, Christian Evidences (external proofs ) can show us that the preponderance of the evidence points to an inerrant Bible.
See www.tektonics.org or www.probe.org for example.

Next, just as we rely on God alone to save us by Christ's death on the cross for our sins, in the same way after we are saved it is God alone that enables us to live the victorious Christian life. That's all about learning to lean, and letting go and letting God. Here are some verses on that - I can say much more about it if you wish.

Rom 12:1-2
1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God-- this is your spiritual act of worship.
2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is-- his good, pleasing and perfect will.
(NIV) (LET GO)
2 Cor 1:9
9 Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. (AND LET GOD) (NIV)

Phil 1:6
6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
(NIV)

2 Pet 1:3
3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
(NIV)

Most people that really know me say I have suffered much more than the average person, in many ways. I don't know about that, but I do know that God has made it worth it all. And here is what we can say, once we've been through the Refiner's fire:
"My misery became my ministry, and my mess became my message." If you want to know just how wonderful that can be, read the first part of Isaiah 61. It makes for a great life.

Please hang in there, friend, and let us know how we can help. I'll pray for you.
Aloha in Jesus

 

[HoosierCanuck]

I've wondered that too. While I can see some suffering is brought upon ourselves because we have free will to screw up our lives (don't I know it!). However, when someone who has been a good Christian servant all of their lives suffers from cancer for years and then dies, I tend to wonder where is the justice in that? I realize the 'reward' is after our death but I just think to put someone through that kind of hell beforehand is a little cruel.

I've heard of a book called "When Bad Things Happen To Good People" (I think that's the title) but I've never read it and can't remember who wrote it. I have a feeling it may give you some of the answers you need though.

 

[madison1101]

God did not create the suffering that occurs in our lives. There is suffering because of the fall of Adam. Sin entered the world through him and the ruler of this world is not God but Satan. Satan is the author of the pain in this lifetime.

Our lives include spiritual warfare, and that includes attacks from the enemy. Your description of your walk with the Lord sounds like you are trying to get your ticket punched so that you can get blessings from God. God does not work that way. Being a Christian is about being in a love relationship with the creator of the world. We read the Bible to read His love letter to us and to learn about who HE is in our lives. We attend church to worship Him because He deserves our worship. We obey His will because of who He is and not to get a blessing. AND, we don't do these things in our own power, but through the power of the Holy Spirit.

I think you need to check your attitude about your situation and get the big picture. God is God. He is worthy of our praise and worship. PERIOD. IF He blesses us beyond our salvation, it is not because of anything we have done, but because of who HE is.

 

[thepianist]

It boils down to just one thing.....and that is do you know if you were to die, right now, that you would go to heaven? Have you ever done what the Bible tells us to do in Romans 10:9, 10 & 13? If you have - and meant it - then you are promised a home in heaven.

We are not promised a rose garden full of blessings here on the earth during this life. Yet, many of the things He blesses us with - everyday - are looked at as something expected. We must all take the time to smell the roses that do bloom in this garden of life! Remember the reward we are promised at the end of our journey here.

You will be in my prayers.

 

[jollyjosh]

God did not create the suffering that occurs in our lives. There is suffering because of the fall of Adam. Sin entered the world through him and the ruler of this world is not God but Satan. Satan is the author of the pain in this lifetime.

Our lives include spiritual warfare, and that includes attacks from the enemy. Your description of your walk with the Lord sounds like you are trying to get your ticket punched so that you can get blessings from God. God does not work that way. Being a Christian is about being in a love relationship with the creator of the world. We read the Bible to read His love letter to us and to learn about who HE is in our lives. We attend church to worship Him because He deserves our worship. We obey His will because of who He is and not to get a blessing. AND, we don't do these things in our own power, but through the power of the Holy Spirit.

I think you need to check your attitude about your situation and get the big picture. God is God. He is worthy of our praise and worship. PERIOD. IF He blesses us beyond our salvation, it is not because of anything we have done, but because of who HE is.

now theres going against what the bible says....

what is there to check? bad stuff happens all the time, what good has there been?

and how can i worship something when i have had no reason to myself



and i have been calling upon the Lord to save me but nothing happens and that just makes it worse when nothing happens.
and if God was speaking to me/us how do we know its just not our minds making it up??

 

[non-religious]

[jollyjosh]
what is there to check? bad stuff happens all the time, what good has there been?

Hi.....

I think that perhaps part of the problem is the way we percieve the world in which we live. Sure if I lived solely based upon the negative news reel or countless articles in my local paper illustrating the numerous robberies, rapes, acts of vandalism etc... I would view the world as a nasty horrible place that just seems so unjust. Of course many parts of the world are unjust and cruel and the way that children are born into poverty and lack is heartbreaking. But........ That's not the whole picture is it? There are countless good things and more importantly good people who make it their life's work to make our lives better. Homeless shelters, drug clinics, charities that give aid and your average Joe who dips into his pocket when he sees his fellow human beings suffering after an earthquake, hurricane etc.... You shouldn't allow your world view to be tainted by the bad things that happen and where you see injustice happen, perhaps you might suprise yourself and do something constructive to make things ultimately better.

and i have been calling upon the Lord to save me but nothing happens and that just makes it worse when nothing happens.
and if God was speaking to me/us how do we know its just not our minds making it up??

I'm not sure what your expecting to happen... The world will not shake when you call upon His name. You might not feel a thing, that doesn't mean He is not at the core of your life. I guess it comes down to an assurance, that you know He is there and listening to your prayer. He knows your struggles jollyjosh and He understands your questions and feelings. Your not the only one to have such thoughts or questions. I have been there myself. Just know that He loves you and He hears you. Don't stop communicating with Him and then one day He will speak to you and you will know it was His voice and not just your own thoughts

 

[jollyjosh]

enough is enough
i tryed one last time to get some reply from god and there was none
ive had enough of having my heart broken

 

[Jimmy West]

if there is a God then why would God create human beings because God knows the future so God would know that all this bad stuff would happen and if that is the case then God might be cruel.

There are some who don"t agree with this. When it comes to us humans, God does not know the future. Why? We have been given free will and have the independent ability to turn left or turn right. God can create the future by creating an image of a future event and then manipulating people and situations to cause the event to happen. God is not cruel, but he will let man suffer as a result of his own behavior or transgressions. What God wants from us is to give ourselves to him, mind, body and soul. When we do that whole-heartedly, we become his children and he will then give us everything.


and if God has a plan for our lives why does it involve so much suffering.

and i just had like a big dive head first into my faith trying to make it work and it just seems like it has been thrown in my face.

God does not have a plan for every man's life. His desire is that we choose our own path and that when we do, it will be towards or with him.


and i try to be the best christian i can by reading my bible everyday and not swearing and avoiding temptation and i go to church every week and play bass in the band and nothing we can do will make God love us more but it says people who do his work will be blessed and i havent been getting many blessings.

I posted a thread recently called: "Getting through your trial" Please find it and read it. It will give you insight as to what is going on in your life. God is not angry with you. He is trying to consecrate you in order to bless you.


how do we know that our faith is not just a figment of our imagination?

Hang in there. God wants to do something incredible in your life. He just has to get you ready first.

 

[BOJAX]

it is more than reading the bible
it is having faith in what you are reading and applying it to your own life
god works within his own timing and not ours
if we focus on our own timing like expecting a quick answer we're likely to miss the real answers
praying for you
I'm sure all of us have been at that point at least once
satan is filling your head with disbelief remember that

 

[jollyjosh]

errrr it says in the bible that God has a plan for our lives.
and dont you think if i wasnt applying it to my life i wouldnt care about this

 

[BOJAX]

he does have a plan for our lives and it works best with his timing. it can never be ruined by our actions
applying is also believing in god's promises. not just living a 'christian lifestyle'
this is a passage that should assure you that Christ will never forsake you and nothing can separate you from him...
(John 10:27-29)
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

 

[bethdinsmore]

enough is enough
i tryed one last time to get some reply from god and there was none
ive had enough of having my heart broken

What kind of a reply were you looking for? God answers in all sorts of ways. I was praying for God's guidance when I answered your post, as I'm almost positive everyone else was as well. I'll be glad to give examples of specific answered prayers if you wish.

Don't give up, friend. I'm so glad I didn't. God is not in the business of breaking hearts - that just happens when we don't understand what He's doing. And don't base your beliefs on your feelings. If you don't trust the Bible, check out those Christian evidences sites I mentioned. Once you trust the Bible, always choose Scripture over your feelings when they contradict. That is absolutely essential to having the victorious Christian life.

And of course one must be a born-again Christian in order to understand the Bible. By some of your wording, I wonder, are you questioning your salvation? We can explain more about that if you are.

I used to hate God - then I discovered I was mixing his character up with my earthly father. If you want to read about my journey, see "personal testimony" in my website listed on my profile page. It is amazing. (But then, so are many other testimonies.)

A great workbook on the character of God is Behold Your God by Alexander. The questions help integrate it with your own life.

Mature Christian friends or a Christian recovery group would help a lot also. The groups deal with why we don't trust God, and then shows us how He is trustworthy, and then how to rely on Him.

You may think you are at the end of your rope, friend, but you're not - you're at the beginning. I know, because you are here.

I'll pray for you. Aloha in Jesus.

 

[Jimmy West]

errrr it says in the bible that God has a plan for our lives.
and dont you think if i wasnt applying it to my life i wouldnt care about this

God's plan for all of us is for each and every one of us to be his loving family and to dwell with him for eternity. In other words, to be saved. Man does have the ability to change that. If you think that man can't ruin God's plan then all of the people in prison must be there by God's will. I don't think so.

 

[jollyjosh]

but it does say in the bible that God has a plan for our whole lives doesnt it??

 

[jollyjosh]

ok after a day of pretending i dont care about God i am thinking that because i cant stop thinking about him he is probably there..
you guys dont know what has happened yet but basically:
my mum is a manic depressive, also currently ill will a real bad cold
my ex girlfriend lied to me loads and pretended to try to kill herself and made me out to be the bad guy to all my friends
i got kicked off my sponsorship for bike riding for no reason
i got bullied by this guy
nothing ever works out for me

thats about it
and one thing else when i started doubting i went on msn and the only person on was an atheist and that didnt help.
i just need something to cling on to i am finding it difficult to trust God because my ex was so deceitful.
i just need something like someone hugging me for no reason or someone calling just to see how i am. this might sound selfish but in the past few weeks nothing has happeneed like that and this also may sound selfish but nothing has ever happened where i am the centre of attention.
yes i know i shouldnt base my life on earthly things but i need something to help.
how is believing that a God i cant see or hear or feel going to change anything?
i have been hoping and praying and believing that something would change with one of my problems for the last few years but nothing does.
i really want to believe God will help me but i also dont want to feel let down again.
should i just go in head first and hope for the best?i feel so bad about being angry with God that these things have happened to the people i love and all it seems they have taught me are the emotions of anger and emptyness.

 

[jollyjosh]

woah ok just prayed and for the first time in i can remember i heard God answer one of my questions which was "how can i live up to your standards?" and His answer was "you cant thats why Jesus died for you" i dont understand about forgiveness. do i need to ask alll the time? everyday? once a week? what if i forget a sin? but also after i prayed and asked for forgiveness for turning away from God this sense of peace came over me and even though i dont understand what He is doing or why i just feel at ease with everything now. and also He made me realize that i want to worship Him because He saved me from the fires of hell!! awesome!!
i hope that my faith can stay strong and that i am filled with the Holy Spirit always.

thanks for all your prayers!
peace outxx

 

[bethdinsmore]

Dear friend...What a wonderful answer to all our prayers! It's seldom that I hear such a clear answer.

Some things are constant, and some aren't. Here's some encouragement concerning your comments: God loves you always, whether you are in the midst of sinning or not. The Holy Spirit indwells believers always, He doesn't come and go. We are saved from Hell always, no matter what we do or don't do once we are saved.
Now I'm going to quote some verses that back up my points:

Rom 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
36 As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, [nothing] will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(NIV)
Rom 8:1-2
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
(NIV)
1 Cor 6:19-20
19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
(NIV)

Rom 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(NIV)
Rom 11:29
29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
(NIV)
John 10:28-29
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
(NIV)

And you asked how often we need to ask forgiveness, so I'll give the whole scenario. Everyone needs to make the decision to trust Christ as his sinbearer and to get him to Heaven one day, without any works or promises of his own. (See my signature verses). At that point, we are saved forever. Then, when we sin, we are to ask God's forgiveness, and we would do well to ask Him for the strength never to do it again. The next time we commit some sin, we need to ask forgiveness, etc. We don't need to ask forgiveness over and over for some sin we have only committed once. I recommend daily devotions once a day - such as Soul Journey in "devotions" at the top of the page. That's when I ask God to forgive me for anything I have done wrong that I don't remember, and to show me if there's anything I need to do about it. And I take His word for it that he will show me. The Lord's Prayer would be a good pattern for you to start with, as well as Ps. 139:23-24. And if we keep on sinning, God will not condemn us or cast us out of His family, but He will lovingly discipline us.

Our feelings will change, coming from the world, the flesh, the devil, the weather, and our physical conditions - but God's Word and promises never change. We must choose His Word over our feelings, always. In fact, when we have a burst of adrenalin over some success, serotonin will be lowered and our mood will head downwards. In addition, some of the things you said in a previous post indicate that you could be a codependent, in which case I highly recommend Christian recovery groups. Codependency can keep us from growing in the Lord.

As you seek to study the Word and cooperate with God as He leads and empowers you, your faith will grow. Also, being around mature Christians can give you a lot of answers you wouldn't have as you just start to grow. They can help your faith grow faster. It's all up to the choices you make. (Happiness is a choice is a good Christian book about that.)

God bless you, friend. So very happy about your answer from God.
Aloha in Jesus

 

[bethdinsmore]

I was codependent, and I understand the overwhelming pain. Once we learn new biblical ways of coping with it (like I did in the recovery groups), our eyes are able to focus more and more on serving and loving God and others. It takes a lot of praying and learning to be able to let go of our old protective behaviors. But you can do it, friend. I have led many of these groups, and I've seen it countless times. One day at a time.

BTW, I told my husband about your wonderful answer to prayer. I was rejoicing. He smiled, and said He had prayed yesterday morning that the Lord would encourage me in a big way in here. The Lord answered that prayer, and He used your post to do it. Thank you, friend.

Aloha in Jesus

 

[jollyjosh]

ME. ME. ME. How old are you anyway?
Part of the reason there's so much suffering is that you're not doing anything to alleviate it.
Do you think Christianity is about nothing more than making you happy?
This a war, kid. You're being asking to be a soldier and fight for the right. What do you think all that armor stuff is about anyway?
People are dying and suffering all around you while you play in your little band and hang with your friends.
People suffer because it's a war.
Quit whining. Go serve someone else and get your mind off your petty little problems.

you just told me to go and serve someone else except for God? why?
btw im 15, and i cant do anything about manic depression or how other people feel can i? and i cant do anything about hurricanes, or bird flu, or earthquakes, or tsunamis. also while you are sat there at your computer you are not helping other people...
what if i used my band to save people?
what if i saved my friends from the fires of hell?


and to bethdinsmore, thanks for all your prayers, im trying real hard to see God working in my life and today something did happen....
i was going out and my friend was supposed to be doing my work shift, but he thought it was next week, so just when i was about to cancel my plans i prayed and then another friend agreed to do my work!! awesome stuff.
in the midst of all of this i am beginning to get more in touch with God.