Dose any one else have a problem with “Christmas”?

Stinker said:

Like it or not, Christmas is the best outreach tool the Church ever came up with.

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i would expect that answer concerning Easter, another syncretistic holiday, but not about Christmas which has no Biblical basis at all. At least Easter is an actual Biblical event close to the actual date, but by design never the same (Passover). From the date of Christmas, Mithras birthday and the winter solstice, to the wise men being there at Jesus birth (justification for presents, they were not, arrived years later) Christmas has no Biblical foundations.

rmwilliamsll said:

i would expect that answer concerning Easter, another syncretistic holiday, but not about Christmas which has no Biblical basis at all. At least Easter is an actual Biblical event close to the actual date, but by design never the same (Passover). From the date of Christmas, Mithras birthday and the winter solstice, to the wise men being there at Jesus birth (justification for presents, they were not, arrived years later) Christmas has no Biblical foundations.

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I guess it is what each person does with it that makes it good or not. I heard someone tell how they bought 3 gifts for her children, and another person ask her why. She said because she can then tell the story of the wise men bringing 3 gifts. Using examples like this to help tell the story of Christ birth, and show by example what all happened before and after His birth sounds like really good ideas to me. Children learn by seeing and experiencing things, and so anyway of making the birth of Christ real and understood is a good thing in my opinion.

My family stopped buying gifts several years ago for many reasons, some money, some because it had got to secular/worldly to us and we needed to step back and remember the real reason that Dec. 25th was set aside. I have a little grandson now (5 month old), so now we are discussing how we can start doing Christmas for the right reasons as we help him learn about our Lord and Saviour.

I see nothing wrong with setting a day aside to celebrate His birth. No, it isn't the real day, and yes we should give Him worship and praise everyday, but just like we don't do the Lord's supper everyday when we do it we need to do it as a remembrace of what He did for us. If He wasn't born He wouldn't have died and rose again, so again if done right I see nothing wrong with Christmas.

I do find it sad that because non-christians and atheist point out it really isn't His birthday and that it used to be the day of a pagan worship, etc. that we shouldn't use that date, and Christians are agree with them. It is just another way of taking Christ out of things we do, and if don't for the right reason then I see nothing wrong with it.

I always loved Christmas.

I do find it sad that because non-christians and atheist point out it really isn't His birthday and that it used to be the day of a pagan worship, etc. that we shouldn't use that date, and Christians are agree with them. It is just another way of taking Christ out of things we do, and if don't for the right reason then I see nothing wrong with it.

the point of the Puritans is that God has commanded that we worship Him in ONLY the way He has told us to, not in the way we think right, this regulatory principle for worship rules out observing Christmas. If it is true that God commands worship then it is equally true that Christmas is not the right way to do it, and we are substituting man's thoughts for God's and perverting proper worship.

notes:
for completeness and research pointers there are two different principles in worship

regulative principle:
what is commanded is allowed

broad principle:
if it is not disallowed then it is acceptable.

RPW associated with puritans, broad with Lutherans.

tinyeva said:

I always loved Christmas.

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I agree. We all know of the origins of many of our Christmas traditions, but origins are not everything. No, He was not born on 12/25, nor can anyone point to the exact date. But God DID send His Son, as a tiny Baby, in order that we can be saved! And THAT is the thing!

I don't care what the date really is, I only care that God loves me enough to die for me! And it all started in the manger-regardless of the day!

Rich

Worship comes from the heart, so to say someones heart isn't in the right place if they do Christmas, is trying to say we know someones heart. God can do that, but not sure we can totally be sure of what we believe someones heart is doing.

fevoldj2 said:

Do you get presents when you celebrate someone else's birthday?

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Most hosts give small gifts (or "favors") to guests at the birthday party

rmwilliamsll said:

i'm glad you enjoyed reading the essay. I'm never sure if people find the time to research and follow up on links inside these postings. Brian Schwertley is one of those thinkers that i love to hate, he is well written, well argued and never seems to agree with what i think. but that is the best things about such writers, they provoke and inspire us to rebuttal and in the process we learn something even if we never do agree.

regarding:
"Christmas is a Monument to Past and Present Idolatry", is not based on SPECIFIC scriptural evidence, just a blank statement

i'm surprised that you think this way. i see:
Deut. 12:2-4, 30-31).Gen. 35:4), (2 Ki. 10:27).(2 Ki. 23) (2 Chron. 23:15).(Jer. 10:2-3) (Deut. 12:31) listed in the 16 rather short paragraphs that make up "Christmas is a Monument to Past and Present Idolatry" at: http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualNLs/CHRISTMAS.htm#C3S1.
this appears to be rather specific Scriptures, with analysis of each and how they are relevant to the topic.

i don't believe that this makes "a blank statement" but instead is rather well done Biblical reasoning.

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After reading through all of those Scriptures, I honestly don't see how any of them relate to the Christmas holiday. Take the last one for example (Deut 12:31):

31Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.


This is talking about not making a graven image (Idolatry). I don't really see a direct correlation between that and this, unless it is the notion that "Santa Claus has replaced Jesus".

davedjy said:

After reading through all of those Scriptures, I honestly don't see how any of them relate to the Christmas holiday. Take the last one for example (Deut 12:31):

31Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.


This is talking about not making a graven image (Idolatry). I don't really see a direct correlation between that and this, unless it is the notion that "Santa Claus has replaced Jesus".

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it is a defense of the RPW.

What I don't get is why Christians are so stubborn as to not switch to celebrating Jesus' birth on His actual birthday. That would be Sukkot, the Biblical feast that God commanded us to follow in the first place. Why is it so hard to switch? Then, it's a mystery as to why we always complain about how the pope never accounts for the Catholics past mistakes, but we never want to acknowledge our own? Give me a break.

Jesus was born on Sukkot. Get over it. Google it if you don't believe me.

What I don't get is why Christians are so stubborn as to not switch to celebrating Jesus' birth on His actual birthday. That would be Sukkot, the Biblical feast that God commanded us to follow in the first place. Why is it so hard to switch?

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Uhmmm because it doesn't matter? For most of us the actual day is beside the point it's more about honoring Him then when the birth took place.
tulc(IMHO)

My problem with Christmas is that the true meaning of it is lost when people get stressed out about shopping, decorating, cooking, attending parties etc. Also, imho, telling children that santa is real also loses the meaning of Christmas too especially if they recieve a lot of presents.