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Dont want to be mislead

Maysie

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Hello,
I have been given the teachings and website of Bob George from the People to People Ministries . So , I have been listening to his teachings and must say that they seem to make a lot of sense and explain salvation and freedom in Christ in a way that I did not fully understand before.

So I am sure hoping that he is considered to be truly , theologically sound before I recommend him to my family who are are still searching for truth . Wondering if any of you know of him and if you know he is a reliable scripture based teacher ?

Thank you in advance. M.
 

CalledOutOne

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Not really, monergism is a pretty odd theology that denies human free will.

No, Monergism says this about free will:

I. God has endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that is neither forced, nor, by any absolute necessity of nature, determined good, or evil.

II. Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom, and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to God; but yet, mutably, so that he might fall from it.

III. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, has wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation: so as, a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.

IV. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, He frees him from his natural bondage under sin;[8] and, by His grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption, he does not perfectly, or only, will that which is good, but does also will that which is evil.

V. The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to do good alone in the state of glory only.​

If you don't know anything about it, you really shouldn't make claims like that.

Westminster Confession of Faith
 
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Harry3142

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No, Monergism says this about free will:
I. God has endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that is neither forced, nor, by any absolute necessity of nature, determined good, or evil.

II. Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom, and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to God; but yet, mutably, so that he might fall from it.

III. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, has wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation: so as, a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.

IV. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, He frees him from his natural bondage under sin;[8] and, by His grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption, he does not perfectly, or only, will that which is good, but does also will that which is evil.

V. The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to do good alone in the state of glory only.
If you don't know anything about it, you really shouldn't make claims like that.

Westminster Confession of Faith

That is a description of the doctrine of predestination and predeterminism, which many of us refuse to accept due to its implying that every individual has already been preassigned to heaven or hell, and neither of them can do anything to change this selection. It's an outgrowth of John Calvin's interpretation of Romans 9:1-11:32, which many, including the NIV Study Bible and The New Jerome Biblical Commentary, interpret as applying exclusively to Israel as a nation rather than any individual.

An argument has been made that nations are made up of individuals, so the doctrine of predestination could still apply to each person. But that presupposes that Israel was a true democracy in which each individual had a say as to what the nation would believe. But Israel at the time that Romans was written was a combination of a theocracy and a dictatorship. The theocracy was due to the priests of the temple at Jerusalem dictating what their national belief system would include. Since they were Sadducees, that automatically excluded all belief in a resurrection. There were other sects that did believe in a resurrection, but those sects had no official status. Only the Sadducees could dictate what Judaism taught officially. As for the dictatorship it was due to the nation's being under the rule of Rome and its emperor, who assigned men to rule over the affairs of Israel. Those men had absolute power over the people of Israel, answering only to the emperor himself.
 
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Bouke285

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That is a description of the doctrine of predestination and predeterminism, which many of us refuse to accept due to its implying that every individual has already been preassigned to heaven or hell, and neither of them can do anything to change this selection. It's an outgrowth of John Calvin's interpretation of Romans 9:1-11:32, which many, including the NIV Study Bible and The New Jerome Biblical Commentary, interpret as applying exclusively to Israel as a nation rather than any individual.

An argument has been made that nations are made up of individuals, so the doctrine of predestination could still apply to each person. But that presupposes that Israel was a true democracy in which each individual had a say as to what the nation would believe. But Israel at the time that Romans was written was a combination of a theocracy and a dictatorship. The theocracy was due to the priests of the temple at Jerusalem dictating what their national belief system would include. Since they were Sadducees, that automatically excluded all belief in a resurrection. There were other sects that did believe in a resurrection, but those sects had no official status. Only the Sadducees could dictate what Judaism taught officially. As for the dictatorship it was due to the nation's being under the rule of Rome and its emperor, who assigned men to rule over the affairs of Israel. Those men had absolute power over the people of Israel, answering only to the emperor himself.

This thread is going to be moved, or mod hated :).

I agree, mostly with your interpretation of Romans 9, but Romans 9 is by no means the only support for the idea of predestination (I don't even consider it to completely support the idea). There are still questions to this interpretation however: Romans 9:23-24 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory-- 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

Paul was talking to one of his assumed objectors in chapter 9. It's all in the context as Calledoutone stated. He predicted the question, but all of Israel was chosen by God and they aren't saved, look at them. How can we be sure of our election? This is an example of the type of hypothetical question Paul was responding to, as he often did in his letters. Then he goes on to say not all of Israel was the true Israel. Not all of Israel was chosen for salvation, he then goes to give examples of situations in which one was chosen out of Israel over another. The idea can't be blown off so easily.

This passage raises the question is Paul only talking about Israel? Or is there another reason he wrote the passages preceding?

Can "free will" exist? What are our decisions based on? Never a blank slate of equally unbiased choice. We choose based on our greatest desires. Always.

Almost all orthodox Christianity today believes that man is born fallen after Adam. The idea of predestination is misrepresented and misunderstood. Every single person who has ever lived after Adam deserves to go to Hell. It is only by Jesus becoming man and dying for sinners, having lived the life Adam couldn't, that we have any hope of reconciliation.

If God doesn't limit his knowledge (like some suggest) then every time he has interacted with humanity, it has been in contrast to our "free-will" Unconditional election is the idea of God choosing some, out of an undeserving all, and graciously by the Holy Spirit showing them his truth. If you believe; you are saved. It's by the payment of Christ we are saved.

This idea elevates our love for and understanding of God--if understood apart from the misconceptions. We all deserve Hell. God never had to redeem us, If we could choose to believe apart from Him, that choice would be based on our family, our genetics, our friends, our life, our location etc...

It is by Adam man has fallen, it is by the grace of God man can be saved. That's the idea behind predestination.
 
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CalledOutOne

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John MacArthur is also very good. You can find him at Grace to You

That is a description of the doctrine of predestination and predeterminism, which many of us refuse to accept due to its implying that every individual has already been preassigned to heaven or hell, and neither of them can do anything to change this selection. It's an outgrowth of John Calvin's interpretation of Romans 9:1-11:32, which many, including the NIV Study Bible and The New Jerome Biblical Commentary, interpret as applying exclusively to Israel as a nation rather than any individual.

An argument has been made that nations are made up of individuals, so the doctrine of predestination could still apply to each person. But that presupposes that Israel was a true democracy in which each individual had a say as to what the nation would believe. But Israel at the time that Romans was written was a combination of a theocracy and a dictatorship. The theocracy was due to the priests of the temple at Jerusalem dictating what their national belief system would include. Since they were Sadducees, that automatically excluded all belief in a resurrection. There were other sects that did believe in a resurrection, but those sects had no official status. Only the Sadducees could dictate what Judaism taught officially. As for the dictatorship it was due to the nation's being under the rule of Rome and its emperor, who assigned men to rule over the affairs of Israel. Those men had absolute power over the people of Israel, answering only to the emperor himself.

As for you, you have no Scriptural exegesis. Romans 9 is about individuals being predestined onto salvation. Taken in context of the rest of Romans (rather isolating it chapter by chapter or verse by verse) you will find these things.

28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. (Romans 8 NASB)​
Predestination is about individuals. This sets the context for chapter 9.

14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, “ I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “ For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. (Romans 9 NASB)​
He hardened Pharaoh's heart who was an individual so that His Name would be known.

19 You will say to me then, “ Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. (Romans 9 NASB)​
Context being individuals, He has vessels of wrath (the reprobates) and vessels of mercy (the elect).

This is in the OT as well:
The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.(Proverbs 16:4 NASB)​
See how He predestines men to hell?

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7 KJV)​
See how He ordains all things?

How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You To dwell in Your courts. We will be satisfied with the goodness of Your house, Your holy temple. (Psalm 65:4)​
See how He ordains men unto salvation?

And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. (Exodus 4:21 KJV)​
See how He hardens men's hearts?

Anyhow... we are getting off topic.
 
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Trogool

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That is a description of the doctrine of predestination and predeterminism, which many of us refuse to accept due to its implying that every individual has already been preassigned to heaven or hell, and neither of them can do anything to change this selection. It's an outgrowth of John Calvin's interpretation of Romans 9:1-11:32, which many, including the NIV Study Bible and The New Jerome Biblical Commentary, interpret as applying exclusively to Israel as a nation rather than any individual.

An argument has been made that nations are made up of individuals, so the doctrine of predestination could still apply to each person. But that presupposes that Israel was a true democracy in which each individual had a say as to what the nation would believe. But Israel at the time that Romans was written was a combination of a theocracy and a dictatorship. The theocracy was due to the priests of the temple at Jerusalem dictating what their national belief system would include. Since they were Sadducees, that automatically excluded all belief in a resurrection. There were other sects that did believe in a resurrection, but those sects had no official status. Only the Sadducees could dictate what Judaism taught officially. As for the dictatorship it was due to the nation's being under the rule of Rome and its emperor, who assigned men to rule over the affairs of Israel. Those men had absolute power over the people of Israel, answering only to the emperor himself.

Pretty much this. God doesn't predestine anyone to Hell as he desires that we all be saved, and all do good. I think the New Testament makes it clear we are called to participate in our own sanctification. There are plenty of analogies about such things as "finishing the race".
 
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CalledOutOne

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^^Totally saw that coming

Anywho... The sources I recommended comply with this site's SoF. And they are good resources.

There's nothing wrong with them.

I do not recommend the sources you have because they seem a little humanistic.
Perhaps you will find someone at SermonAudio.com.
 
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