you go to such sites as pwarchive.com and realize the over half the songs cannot be shown anymore, thanks to such greedy companys as integrity music. Why? because they want to SELL the chords and make more MONEY when it should be that churches shouldnt have to spend more money on all copyrights and all this stuff when they should be spending it on their ministries. Its retarded and it ticks me off how a "Christian" company can sit there and deprive people of their GOD GIVEN RIGHT to worship through song, all because they want more money. What do you all think?
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Doesnt it tick you off when....
- Thread starter proudwitness
- Start date
I feel that the "church" should have free access to the music, but people should have to buy the chords if they want them, otherwise how will they pay for all the marketing and production? It takes alot of money to compile and package a cd.....
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So go and buy the CD?
Chords and stuff for guitars strike me as something that shouldn't be charged for... I mean, come on. Chords.
I understand songbooks and instruction books being on sale, I think that makes some sense.
But chords? I dunno when music theory and standard chord progressions became intellectual property...
Chords and stuff for guitars strike me as something that shouldn't be charged for... I mean, come on. Chords.
I understand songbooks and instruction books being on sale, I think that makes some sense.
But chords? I dunno when music theory and standard chord progressions became intellectual property...
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if they are just regular p&w songs ii dont see why chusrches and praise bands shouldnt see the chords. sometimes it is irratating not being able to find certain chords but i wander how much of the money does go to the song writer.
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The worship team at my church has been in the works for awhile, and I recently worked on getting all the chords we'd need in a notebook. My tools were Google and my piano keyboard. Most songs were easy to find, and those that I couldn't I just did my best to work out the chords on my own.proudwitness said:
I don't think it's wrong for song writers to get paid for their work, though.
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It's not hard to understand why you would want free access to the lyrics and chords for awesome praise and worship songs. I would like to offer an explanation from the other side of the issue. Please understand that I am not trying to be hard on your or discourage you. Don't stop playing the songs, just try to understand the other side of the issue. This is a matter of law, not opinion.
While I don't write lyrics, I am a writer and have a little understanding of copyright law. I say "a little understanding" because American copyright law is complicated and internet issues are making it more so. I am not a lawyer, but I am on the management team in several creative online creative writing groups and have had to research to answer my member's questions.
Integrity Music more than likely does not own the copyright to the lyrics. I know the liner notes probably do say so on the CD and sheet music, but that is a standard practice within the industry. Just like when you buy a magazine or a book, the copyright might say something like "Copyright 2000 Macmillan USA", but that is the copyright for only that specific edition of the book or specific issue of the magazine. The copyright for the book, article, lyric or music remains with the creator.
"Copyright" is a broad term that covers many facets of the actual usage of the intellectual property. Since I do not write lyrics, let me break it down in terms the sale of a short story. Say I submit my story to a magazine that prints fiction. They like it. They send me a contract offering to buy the First North American Serial Rights to my story. I like the offer. I sign the contract. Depending on the terms of the contract, I might be able the next week to offer that same story for publication to an anthology publisher. I did not sell the magazine the anthology rights, so I can do this. Perhaps the magazine prints an anthology once a year of the best of their fiction offerings. If they wish to include my story they must either specify that in the original contract or send me another contract. I am still free to sell the movie rights to this story, use the characters in another story, expand the story into a novel or whatever else I wish to do with it since I still retain the basic copyright.
Legally, the publisher is bound to protect the works they publish against copyright infringement. Integrity Music more than likely had no choice but to press that web site to remove the lyrics since there was no negotiation with the artist to allow their lyrics to be published on the web. It was most likely at the request of one or more writers who did not like their works published on the net.
It is one thing to learn the song yourself by trial and error and to share it in praise and worship and another thing altogether to be angry because the publishers and artists/writers stood up for their legal rights. Work the chords out yourself, it will make you a better musician. If you can't work them out alone get help, if that fails, buy the sheet music. I know that it can't be cheap, but to expect the creator of the songs you love enough to want to play shows a disregard for the time and God given talent of the writers. Yes, it is your God given right--actually it is a must not a right-- to offer God praise and worship, but it is NOT a God given right to have free use of whatever song you choose regardless of the wishes of the creator of that song. To spell out the worst case scenerio, the creator of those songs could bring legal action for just playing their song, but none would be willing to ruin their careers with such an uncharitable action. It would, however, be totally within their legal rights.
One last comment about intellectual property. As soon as anything creative is set in permanent form it is technically copyrighted. The legal process one goes through is to REGISTER that copyright. Those guitar chords are legally copyrighted as soon as they are written down. They are an original composition that once read or played would recognized as a certain song and are protected by copyright law the second they are written down.
(I didn't mean to write a novel... sorry)
While I don't write lyrics, I am a writer and have a little understanding of copyright law. I say "a little understanding" because American copyright law is complicated and internet issues are making it more so. I am not a lawyer, but I am on the management team in several creative online creative writing groups and have had to research to answer my member's questions.
Integrity Music more than likely does not own the copyright to the lyrics. I know the liner notes probably do say so on the CD and sheet music, but that is a standard practice within the industry. Just like when you buy a magazine or a book, the copyright might say something like "Copyright 2000 Macmillan USA", but that is the copyright for only that specific edition of the book or specific issue of the magazine. The copyright for the book, article, lyric or music remains with the creator.
"Copyright" is a broad term that covers many facets of the actual usage of the intellectual property. Since I do not write lyrics, let me break it down in terms the sale of a short story. Say I submit my story to a magazine that prints fiction. They like it. They send me a contract offering to buy the First North American Serial Rights to my story. I like the offer. I sign the contract. Depending on the terms of the contract, I might be able the next week to offer that same story for publication to an anthology publisher. I did not sell the magazine the anthology rights, so I can do this. Perhaps the magazine prints an anthology once a year of the best of their fiction offerings. If they wish to include my story they must either specify that in the original contract or send me another contract. I am still free to sell the movie rights to this story, use the characters in another story, expand the story into a novel or whatever else I wish to do with it since I still retain the basic copyright.
Legally, the publisher is bound to protect the works they publish against copyright infringement. Integrity Music more than likely had no choice but to press that web site to remove the lyrics since there was no negotiation with the artist to allow their lyrics to be published on the web. It was most likely at the request of one or more writers who did not like their works published on the net.
It is one thing to learn the song yourself by trial and error and to share it in praise and worship and another thing altogether to be angry because the publishers and artists/writers stood up for their legal rights. Work the chords out yourself, it will make you a better musician. If you can't work them out alone get help, if that fails, buy the sheet music. I know that it can't be cheap, but to expect the creator of the songs you love enough to want to play shows a disregard for the time and God given talent of the writers. Yes, it is your God given right--actually it is a must not a right-- to offer God praise and worship, but it is NOT a God given right to have free use of whatever song you choose regardless of the wishes of the creator of that song. To spell out the worst case scenerio, the creator of those songs could bring legal action for just playing their song, but none would be willing to ruin their careers with such an uncharitable action. It would, however, be totally within their legal rights.
One last comment about intellectual property. As soon as anything creative is set in permanent form it is technically copyrighted. The legal process one goes through is to REGISTER that copyright. Those guitar chords are legally copyrighted as soon as they are written down. They are an original composition that once read or played would recognized as a certain song and are protected by copyright law the second they are written down.
(I didn't mean to write a novel... sorry)
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mshupe1959
Contributor
in short, even though we don't think it's right and/ or don't like it "render unto ceaser"
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i agree. work out the chords yourself and stop complaining.
on the other hand, vineyard include all the chord charts to their songs on their cd's. they are all about resourcing the church.
or, and here's a drastic suggestion...WRITE YOUR OWN SONGS. then you can hand them out willy-nilly to all the churches all over the world and never worry about being paid for them. you could be a trail-blazer in the free distribution of music!!
on the other hand, vineyard include all the chord charts to their songs on their cd's. they are all about resourcing the church.
or, and here's a drastic suggestion...WRITE YOUR OWN SONGS. then you can hand them out willy-nilly to all the churches all over the world and never worry about being paid for them. you could be a trail-blazer in the free distribution of music!!
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maybe you could update some hymns... many of them are in the public domain now and can be used for free... one of my favorites in our worship service is a really rocking version of "Oh How I Love Jesus"!
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I don't think they should charge for food. After all, I need it to continue my ministry.
But I guess they need the money to continue in their ministry more...
But I guess they need the money to continue in their ministry more...
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You know, the Gospel is free, but the pipeline that brings it to those who need it is NOT free. Every Christian entertainer who brings the message to YOU has paid for the things needed to be sure that the message gets to you. What is wrong with being asked to pay for what you use? Just because these folks are Christian does not mean that they owe you the free use of their music. That fact that YOU are Christian should mean that you would RATHER pay for the sheet music than use it for free...
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Amen sister...
I am a songwriter/musician. Believe me...we ain't getting rich out here.
Whenver I go see a christian band with a good testimony, I will buy their CD whether I think it's good or not just to support them...to help them get to the next unsaved soul that I might not be able to reach.
It does kinda hurt when people don't think I'm worth supporting with spending a few extra cents on my works. Yeah, the record label will get most of it but I agreed to that in a contract. They actualy deserve it for all the paperwork and administrative costs that has to be taken care of up front. It's more work than you guys can imagine...and I can't keep up with it while traveling all the time.
So help a brutha out, would ya?
Or do the work to figure the chords yourself if you don't want to pay the person who has done it for you.
I am a songwriter/musician. Believe me...we ain't getting rich out here.
Whenver I go see a christian band with a good testimony, I will buy their CD whether I think it's good or not just to support them...to help them get to the next unsaved soul that I might not be able to reach.
It does kinda hurt when people don't think I'm worth supporting with spending a few extra cents on my works. Yeah, the record label will get most of it but I agreed to that in a contract. They actualy deserve it for all the paperwork and administrative costs that has to be taken care of up front. It's more work than you guys can imagine...and I can't keep up with it while traveling all the time.
So help a brutha out, would ya?
Or do the work to figure the chords yourself if you don't want to pay the person who has done it for you.
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