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The nation of Israel did not choose their God, but God chose Israel for a very specific purpose -- primarily to bring Messiah to the world -- a Light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel (Lk 2:32).
But Israel by and large rebelled against God, against His Christ, and against His Gospel, thus Paul's lament (Rom 9:1-5): I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the serviceof God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
By the same token, had grace been irresistible, Paul would not have had "great heaviness and continual sorrow" since they all would have been irresistibly saved. After all, to them pertained the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the Law, the service of God, the promises, and the Messiah. Think about it! They had every advantage and every opportunity, but the majority remained unsaved. The strongest evidence against Five Point Calvinism is Israel!
Of course God chose salvation for those who believe in His Son. We see that in 1 Cor 1:21 - 1For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe....agreed, but it's a big jump for it to be inferred that He did not choose our salvation inheritance for us.
Why cite a Bible passage and then cut to MacArthur? As if he is the 'last word' on the text??Zechariah chapter 12 to chapter 14 would help you a great deal to understand how wrong you are.
There is no evidence of that. To the contrary, they were devout Jews who were awaiting the Messiah. They just didn't know He would come as "Jesus".The apostles..to whom this is addressed.. did not believe before they were chosen ..
There is no evidence of that. To the contrary, they were devout Jews who were awaiting the Messiah. They just didn't know He would come as "Jesus".
Prior to Jesus' arrival, people were saved by believing in the Messiah. This is easily shown by the response of Simeon in Luke 2:23-32.
When Jesus arrived on scene, it was necessary for the Jews to believe that He was the Messiah (Christ).
Primarily the ones who rejected Jesus as Messiah. Didn't you read the account of Simeon? Why not?They were not looking for an eternal savior they were looking for a political one to reclaim the throne of David..
Sure, the prevalent thinking was that the Messiah would rescue them from their political enemies, primarily Rome. But not Simeon. Nor a lot of others.Luke 1: 71, 73, “That we would be saved from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us,” and “To grant that we, being rescued from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us
Peter said, "Are you now going to restore the kingdom" (Acts 1:6).
Did I write that? That MacArthur is the last word on the text?Why cite a Bible passage and then cut to MacArthur? As if he is the 'last word' on the text??
I have great heaviness and sadness for the non elect.. I do not want people I love here to go to hell .
But what I know is Gods righteousness will always choose correctly ..
I have great concern for people that can not rightly divide the word of God.. and understand things like Gods election of Israel
Bible readers know that rnmomof7 and God possess the same characteristics in that respect.How is it you have great heaviness and sadness for the non-elect and God doesn't? What do you possess that God doesn't?
No the totality of the Bible does not support all five points. You can read Jordan Cooper's essays on why its wrong on 3 points: limited atonment, irrisistible grace, and persevearance of the saints. You/one would have to assume that the people who fell away in the new testament were never Elect that were lectured by Paul, etc. Why warn people with law if they were elect? I would encourage them with gospel. Therefore, the passages I disagree with Calvinists are because they are not seeing the law/gospel distinction in lutheranism and the idea of telling people what they need to hear at a particular moment in time. An elect can fall away.
Right. 2 Tim 4:14 "Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm"
2 Tim 4:9 "Demas, because he loved this world, has deserted me and has gone to Thesaloniki."
Could have fooled Paul! Just shows that one must persevere to STAY elect.
I'm just saying that from a Lutheran point of view; the fear of whether one is elect is the main reason why calvinists are more sanctification (works based); it is relevant in general. Now if you can explain to me how Demas was not elect even though he appears Colossians 4 and Philemon and throughout obviously supported Paul; thought that he himself was elect the whole time; how exactly was he never saved? I don't interpret 1 John 2:19 that way. There is no word "elect" there. Hebrews 6 also looks like one could fall away (not sure if it was mentioned). If there is no risk of falling away, then why preach on it in Hebrews 6 then? I don't get it.
Also I agree with the idea of election but not falling away. (Can anyone of you guys reply to my Jonah thread, I really want a perspective on this from well informed Calvinists); As I'm sure you know, Jonah preached to the capital of Assyria and they repented; yet 10-20 years later Assyria was destroyed. Do you believe that none of those people fell away? Did they also die during that judgement?
It seems many think Eph 1:4 God choosing who will believe, it's quite the opposite. It's believers who He has chosen.
No, it wasn't a matter of Paul being fooled.Right. 2 Tim 4:14 "Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm"
2 Tim 4:9 "Demas, because he loved this world, has deserted me and has gone to Thesaloniki."
Could have fooled Paul! Just shows that one must persevere to STAY elect.
Joshua 24:15
And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve...
They were not looking for an eternal savior they were looking for a political one to reclaim the throne of David..
Luke 1: 71, 73, “That we would be saved from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us,” and “To grant that we, being rescued from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us
Peter said, "Are you now going to restore the kingdom" (Acts 1:6).
"Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil." [Jeremiah 13:23]
By the same token, had grace been irresistible, Paul would not have had "great heaviness and continual sorrow" since they all would have been irresistibly saved. After all, to them pertained the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the Law, the service of God, the promises, and the Messiah. Think about it! They had every advantage and every opportunity, but the majority remained unsaved. The strongest evidence against Five Point Calvinism is Israel!
Thank you for this verse. Those who are accustomed to do evil, CAN do good.
We're not talking about leopards, but about those who are accustomed to doing evil. Read it again.
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