Does satan exist?

Kirsten · Jul 8, 2015

Aidan K said:
is satan an actual entity or is satan an allegory for all evil?

Sure, satan exists. His name used to be Lucifer, the most beautiful of all angels. He rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven, along with a bunch of other ridiculous angels who rebelled. What could they have been thinking? Of course, I guess the same goes for us. What can we be thinking rebelling against God?

Kirsten · Jul 8, 2015

Winepress777 said:
I look at him in the mirror every time I think a temptation. I know exactly who he is;

(Gen 6:5) And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

(Mar 7:20) And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

(Mar 7:21) For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

(Mar 7:22) Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

(Mar 7:23) All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

That is our own evilness. That is not satan. If satan lives in you, you have huge problems.

Kirsten · Jul 8, 2015

Neogaia777 said:
Songs like these:

Great song. One of my favorite bands. BTW, Ed got saved.

KWCrazy · Jul 8, 2015

Aidan K said:
This post is extremely offensive , not only to millions of Muslims but also millions of Jews, Christians, Baha'is et al who recognise the Quran as a holy book which is of God

Jesus said “a tree is recognized by its fruit” (Matthew 12:33). When looking for “fruit,” here are three specific tests to apply to any teacher to determine the accuracy of his or her teaching:

1) What does this teacher say about Jesus? In 2 John 9, we read, “Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.” In other words, Jesus Christ and His work of redemption is of utmost importance; beware of anyone who denies that Jesus is equal with God, who downplays Jesus’ sacrificial death, or who rejects Jesus’ humanity. First John 2:22 says, “Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.” Mohammed was a liar.

2) Does this teacher preach the gospel? The gospel is defined as the good news concerning Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection, according to the Scriptures. Galatians 1:7-9 ...Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Mohammed taught a different gospel. He was cursed. He was damned.

3) Does this teacher exhibit character qualities that glorify the Lord? Jude 1:11 says "Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core." Did Mohammed's character glorify the Lord as he perverted the Scriptures, took many wives, committed armed robbery and pillaged the lands he conquered?
reference

Jesus warned of false prophets like Mohammed and others who deceive many. I'm sorry if it offends you but Jesus Christ, the son of God and the savior of mankind said "I am the way, the truth and the light. Nobody comes unto the Father but by me. There is no other way. No other religion will get you to Heaven regardless how many times per day you pray or how many Jews you kill. The Quran is not a holy book of God. It's the product of a false prophet who has led millions of people to destruction. It would be hateful of Christians to be silent and let you be destroyed because you follow a false prophet. Jesus would not be silent. Jesus gave the Pharisees grief for misrepresenting the Gospel. What do you think He would have said to Mohammed? He warned us of false prophets.

I will pray that the Lord opens your eyes. You seem like a wonderful person. It would be wonderful to share Paradise with you.

AmericanChristian91 · Jul 9, 2015

Kirsten said:
Sure, satan exists. His name used to be Lucifer, the most beautiful of all angels. He rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven, along with a bunch of other ridiculous angels who rebelled.

Some would say that the reference to "Lucifer" in the Bible is not referring to a fallen Angel that would become the Devil, but a Babylonian King that had seen himself as a "god" but is now dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer#Etymology.2C_Lucifer_or_morning_star

Kirsten · Jul 9, 2015

AmericanChristian91 said:
Some would say that the reference to "Lucifer" in the Bible is not referring to a fallen Angel that would become the Devil, but a Babylonian King that had seen himself as a "god" but is now dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer#Etymology.2C_Lucifer_or_morning_star

I don't know why they would say that since that is not what Scripture says.

Hawthorne · Jul 9, 2015

Neogaia777 said:
We use Ezekiel 27,28-18 to refer to the king of Tyre, but from the content, "You walked in Eden" ect, ect. we know that on a spiritual sense was actually talking about the power behind the king, and that is: Satan

We know no such thing.

The 'prooftext' for this doctrine is found in Ezekiel 28, not 27. The RSV's rendering bears suspicious resemblances to the priesthood of Adam-- note the similarity Genesis 1 bears to the construction of the tabernacle. Note the cherubim of the holy of holies with the cherubs guarding Eden after the Expulsion, and compare to Ezekiel 28:16...

...so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God,
and the guardian cherub drove you out
from the midst of the stones of fire.

Also, compare the priestly breastplate to Ezekiel 28:13:

You were in Eden, the garden of God;
every precious stone was your covering,
carnelian, topaz, and jasper,
chrysolite, beryl, and onyx,
sapphire, carbuncle, and emerald;
and wrought in gold were your settings
and your engravings.
On the day that you were created
they were prepared.

Exodus 28:15-25:

And you shall make a breastpiece of judgment, in skilled work; like the work of the ephod you shall make it; of gold, blue and purple and scarlet stuff, and fine twined linen shall you make it. It shall be square and double, a span its length and a span its breadth. And you shall set in it four rows of stones. A row of sardius, topaz, and carbuncle shall be the first row; and the second row an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond; and the third row a jacinth, an agate, and an amethyst; and the fourth row a beryl, an onyx, and a jasper; they shall be set in gold filigree. There shall be twelve stones with their names according to the names of the sons of Israel; they shall be like signets, each engraved with its name, for the twelve tribes. And you shall make for the breastpiece twisted chains like cords, of pure gold; and you shall make for the breastpiece two rings of gold, and put the two rings on the two edges of the breastpiece. And you shall put the two cords of gold in the two rings at the edges of the breastpiece; the two ends of the two cords you shall attach to the two settings of filigree, and so attach it in front to the shoulder-pieces of the ephod.

Is this starting to sound familiar? Many of the poems in Isaiah and Ezekiel are mocking dirges. They use satire to elevate a small thing to the level of something grand, in this case, the king of Tyre and the best example and first specimen of a man, Adam. It's not intended to be taken literaly, but rather literarily.

Oh, and if this is referring to 'Lucifer', you're stuck with the problem of Ezekiel 31 which identifies Pharoah as the greatest of the trees of not only Lebanon, but also Eden.

This is a standard Ancient Near Eastern literary device. One of Western Christianity's greatest downfalls is reading the Bible through modern, western eyes, and ignoring the culture into which scripture was written.

Kirsten said:
I don't know why they would say that since that is not what Scripture says.

I don't know why people interpolate some primeval 'Lucifer' into stuff; that's certainly not what scripture says.

Aidan K · Jul 9, 2015

This thread while wonderfully interesting and thought provoking, loses something by being limited to Christianity only, myself excluded. There are so many faiths and cultures with much to say about satan. Yes I know it is a Christian forum but generally it is open to all to come and participate in discussions relevant to Christianity

James Is Back · Jul 9, 2015

Mod Hat On

Folks I will remind everyone that only one non Christian can post in the thread and that's the OP. It went through a cleanup due to that reason so if your post is gone you either violated the SoP or you quoted someone that did.

Mod Hat Off

aiki · Jul 9, 2015

This particular sub-forum is about Exploring Christianity, not about exploring every other faith.

Aidan K · Jul 9, 2015

aiki said:
This particular sub-forum is about Exploring Christianity, not about exploring every other faith.

What about undecided people who are seeking?

aiki · Jul 9, 2015

Well, if they are in this subforum, then they are seeking to know more about Christianity, not Baha'i, or Islam, or what-have-you.

Hawthorne · Jul 9, 2015

Aidan K said:
This thread while wonderfully interesting and thought provoking, loses something by being limited to Christianity only, myself excluded. There are so many faiths and cultures with much to say about satan. Yes I know it is a Christian forum but generally it is open to all to come and participate in discussions relevant to Christianity

I think grains of truth can be found in world religions, but-- and this will go against your grain as a Baha'i-- they're imperfect at best. If all religions were taken as equally true and valid, a trainwreck of contradictions and confusion would ensue. You don't have to believe that Christianity is the only true faith, and as a Baha'i, you won't, but that's the assumption that you'll be dealing with on this website, and specifically, this subforum. Take it or leave it, I reckon. *shrugs*

Aidan K · Jul 9, 2015

Hawthorne said:
I think grains of truth can be found in world religions, but-- and this will go against your grain as a Baha'i-- they're imperfect at best. If all religions were taken as equally true and valid, a trainwreck of contradictions and confusion would ensue. You don't have to believe that Christianity is the only true faith, and as a Baha'i, you won't, but that's the assumption that you'll be dealing with on this website, and specifically, this subforum. Take it or leave it, I reckon. *shrugs*

This may or may not be true but there is as much division within Christianity as there is between Christians and non Christians unfortunately

Sean611 · Jul 9, 2015

I've never understood the trouble that (many) Christians have believing that an evil, literal entity could exist, yet they have no problem accepting that a good entity exists (God). If the evil entity's existence is not to be taken literally, then why take God's existence literally? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but just trying to take the logic to its conclusion.

Furthermore, if we accept that Satan or any other entities (demons) do not exist, then we must conclude that Jesus was curing mental illness and not driving out evil spirits/entities. I have yet to see a convincing argument that Jesus didn't actually think these people were possessed by demons/entities, but rather he knew he was curing mental illness. Therefore, if Jesus thought they were real and took their existence literally, then who am I to dispute him?

Aidan K · Jul 9, 2015

It's the wisdom of today , the opinion of most scholars, that where the Bible talks of demonic possession it is in fact an illness which is occurring

aiki · Jul 9, 2015

That's nice. Doesn't make it so.

Aidan K · Jul 9, 2015

aiki said:
That's nice. Doesn't make it so.

At this point I must bow to your knowledge which is obviously greater than that of Christian scholars

KWCrazy · Jul 9, 2015

Aidan K said:
At this point I must bow to your knowledge which is obviously greater than that of Christian scholars

Name them.
Show their research.
Anyone who claims to be a Christian and spends their time teaching that the Bible is false is a heretic.
Anyone who claims demons do not exist has no understanding of the Scripture and is not following what Christ taught.
Beyond that, I know demons exist. I've seen them. I've witnessed exorcisms.
The Bible actually calls them "devils." Demons is a more modern term. Devils are mentioned 55 times.
There are 74 verses about fallen angels; demons.

aiki · Jul 9, 2015

And am I not a Christian scholar? How would you know if I was or was not?

Does satan exist?

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