Does prophecy have to be confirmation?

[LinkH]

I spent much of my youth in the AOG. One teaching I have heard from AOG people, and others, is that if God gives you a prophecy from someone, only accept it if it is confirmation. There are other versions of this. One of them is that if someone gives you a prophecy about your calling, don't believe it unless it is a confirmation of something God already told you.

I can find a lot of scripture that argues against both of these ideas. Sometimes, God would tell the parents of a child's calling before he was even born. Plenty of people seem to have gotten prophecies out of the blue. Saul seemed to be clueless that he was going to be the king of Israel.

Most of these examples are in the Old Testament. But I don't see any guarantee that God will speak to us directly first before sending someone to prophesy to us. I Corinthians 12 shows us that we all have different gifts and we need each other.

My guess is that these teachings got popular in the AOG as a reaction to the Latter Rain Movement and some of the excesses that happened during that time and perhaps before or after.

Have you guys heard these teachings? What do you think of them? How widespread are they in the AOG and other denominations?

 

[stormdancer0]

I am CoG and I've never heard these teachings.

 

[*Charis*]

I think of Paul when he was struck down and blinded by the Spirit of God.
He was told, by God, of the man who would pray for him and tell him of the
things he would suffer for the cause of Christ. God spoke to Paul first.

I'm one who personally, does NOT receive a word unless it confirms what
is already shown to me by God first.

 

[LinkH]

I think of Paul when he was struck down and blinded by the Spirit of God.
He was told, by God, of the man who would pray for him and tell him of the
things he would suffer for the cause of Christ. God spoke to Paul first.

I'm one who personally, does NOT receive a word unless it confirms what
is already shown to me by God first.

Thank you for responding. The case you showed in the Bible certainly shows us that God certainly can show an individual something before someone else gives us a prophetic word.

My concern is that I do not see where the Bible teaches that this is always the case. And there seem to be many counter examples to the idea. I am also concerned that some people try to make a rule to regulate what the Holy Spirit can or will not say without any revelation from God to back it up. And people who use man-made rules to determine what the Spirit is saying may discern wrongly.

Here is a verse I was thinking of today on the subject:
I Timothy 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

This doesn't prove my point conclusively, but I notice Paul told timothy to war according to the prophecies he had received, not a revelation he had received personally before receiving a prophecy.

I suspect the idea that these words have to be confirmation of what someone is already hearing is a reaction to false prophecies, rather than something taught in the Bible.

 

[lilmissmontana]

Hello

I can only speak of my own experiences as to if it has to be confirmation. 4 specifically. Biblically does it? ... I don't know ... I've not studied that concern of prophecy.

First I believe in all cases any prophesy must not go against scripture.

Then, as for confirmation ... the one I rejected was because it didn't line up with scripture to my understanding and it didn't confirm anything ... it was more predicting things ... and some of things were if my family had ever this or that, then ... that type thing. It was a prophecy that someone was handing out to any one who was interested. I grew a lot from it.

The other three came to me via someone I trust very much ... I believe who they come from can play a part ... not always ... but it can ... I'm a person who has grown to trust very, very, few people ... so in my case it may be necessary ... I don't know, but that's how they came. I also wasn't looking for the word ... it came to me ... in the form of scripture from a person who said they believed it was for me ... as I said ... all three from the same person. Two came from the person before I actually met the person. I know they were 100 percent for me because they absolutely nailed on the head what I was talking about to the Lord about, what I was struggling with ... and all three made a distinct change in my life for the good.

It's interesting to me ... (I think it's an understanding I was meant to take from it along with others) ... that the one I rejected is the one I sought. I have no idea if that means a thing, but it does to me. And for me, personally, it matters if confirms something or not.

To Charis I say .

jmview
lilmiss

 

[Big Drew]

The way it was explained to me was that prophecy will never go against Scripture, and that if the prophecy is of God it will be confirmed through scripture, and/or another prophecy.

 

[mustang_94]

Every time I try to put God in a box,he seems to step out of my box and put my box in his pocket with a grin.

 

[LinkH]

A true prophecy could of course go against an individual's understanding of scripture.

I remember one website where this woman lambasted someone for giving a prophecy that she claimed taught replacement theology, just because it quoted a verse about Israel and applied it to the church. She claimed he was a false prophet.

 

[Builder_Bob]

Prophesy should be confirmed by the hearer. I received a prophesy thirty years ago, but I received a dream a year before the prophesy that confirmed the prophesy. For you know not how long it will take before that prophesy to take place. In my case, if it wasn't for the dream I had a year before the prophesy I might had not beleived it over time, like Abraham received word of promise of a son nearly 100 years prier to his sons birth, then again when the angels spoke to Abraham and Sarah, and as as the Angels commented: (why didest Sarah laugh?) When hearing the words from the Angel Sarah quickly denighed laughing .

 

[r035198x]

As you have probably noticed, God doesn't really work constrained by a set of rules of how His gifts work. Congregations, however, sometimes need to have guidelines to ensure that everything is done in an orderly fashion. Indeed sometimes the gudelines are introduced just to counter certain presumably dangerous behavior.
We can only hope that whatever guidelines people introduce do not end up contradicting scripture.
Typically the teachings are introduced to counter youths who oppose church leaders and claim that they have the gift of prophecy and so leaders should listen to them.

 

[Big Drew]

I had someone give me a prophecy several years back that I was going to be an evangelist...however, shortly before that I had felt in my spirit that God was calling me to be a Pastor. It really confused me, until two other people on separate occasions prophesied that I was called to be a pastor...

 

[lilmissmontana]

And mine weren't about my calling ... they steered me in the right direction when I was completely stuck and befuddled in an understanding.

 

[kaykay9.0]

As you have probably noticed, God doesn't really work constrained by a set of rules of how His gifts work. Congregations, however, sometimes need to have guidelines to ensure that everything is done in an orderly fashion. Indeed sometimes the gudelines are introduced just to counter certain presumably dangerous behavior.
We can only hope that whatever guidelines people introduce do not end up contradicting scripture.
Typically the teachings are introduced to counter youths who oppose church leaders and claim that they have the gift of prophecy and so leaders should listen to them.

I am not Pentecostal/AOG and don't normally post here, but I am charismatic and have some opinions about this. So hopefully, you won't mind me chiming in here. I won't do it too often! Largely, I agree with the above post.

As was mentioned, we can't really "put God in a box" about this so to speak. What I would say is that the Lord could mention something to you in a prophecy that was not something you had considered before, but I wouldn't accept a prophecy as being from the Lord if it specifically did NOT bear witness with your own spirit when you heard and/or was not confirmed by others or some other ways. Does that make sense?

Probably the teaching you have heard is common because often what we receive in prophecy IS indeed confirmation of something we have at least had some inkling that we had felt in our own spirits. In short, I personally don't think it HAS to be confirmation of something you already know or believe, but I do think it should be something that bears witness in your own spirit generally or is confirmed by others preferably some that are in authority over you. Sometimes, however, something may not bear witness because we don't understand it at the time but it should bear witness later if this the case.

Again, it's hard to establish "hard and fast" rules, but as was mentioned these things are taught often because we DO desperately need to judge and discern personal prophecy especially any of a "directional" nature if you know what I mean. (So some of these guidelines exist to give you some safety from taking some word and running amuck with it. We can't just accept whatever comes down the pike. It must be judged.)

 

[Big Drew]

And mine weren't about my calling ... they steered me in the right direction when I was completely stuck and befuddled in an understanding.

I had a prophecy for similar reasons...I was at a point where I was unsure about so much...spiritually...I went to a Men's Retreat for a weekend, and had an amazing experience, including a prophecy that opened my eyes, and I got rid of a lot of baggage.

 

[lilmissmontana]

I am not Pentecostal/AOG and don't normally post here, but I am charismatic and have some opinions about this. So hopefully, you won't mind me chiming in here. I won't do it too often! Largely, I agree with the above post.

As was mentioned, we can't really "put God in a box" about this so to speak. What I would say is that the Lord could mention something to you in a prophecy that was not something you had considered before, but I wouldn't accept a prophecy as being from the Lord if it specifically did NOT bear when with your own spirit when you heard and/or was not confirmed by others or some other ways. Does that make sense?

Probably the teaching you have heard is common because often what we receive in prophecy IS indeed confirmation of something we have at least had some inkling that we had felt in our won spirits. In short, I personally don't think it HAS to be confirmation of something you already know or believe, but I do think it should be something that bears witness in your own spirit generally or is confirmed by others preferably some that are in authority over you.

well, it's cool you're here for whatever reason

I agree with you and r035198x about not putting God in a box ... I'm sure there's so much more to it than any one person can understand ... reading the posts on this thread, it reminds me sort of ... of God meeting us where we're at ... it's logical to me He would send the prophecy in the manner we would best know to receive it ... or something like that ...

yes it does make sense ... I would certainly agree if it settled way down in your soul ... like you know that you know that you now ... I can see where it wouldn't have to be confirmation of anything ... that's sort of the way it is for me when I have a dream I know is from the Lord ... it definitely doesn't always confirm something ... it usually is to enlighten me ... the ones I understand, that is ... is that what you mean?

 

[lilmissmontana]

I had a prophecy for similar reasons...I was at a point where I was unsure about so much...spiritually...I went to a Men's Retreat for a weekend, and had an amazing experience, including a prophecy that opened my eyes, and I got rid of a lot of baggage.

spot on! that is EXACTLY what I meant ... and that's what just happened to me less than a month ago ... those of you who hang here might remember some of it ... I was given a verse and it was from someone that absolutely I trust completely ... well, I struggled and struggled with it ... at one point it just made me mad ... but I knew several things ... the Lord will always send some one in love before anything else ... and I knew this person loved me and I knew the Lord said if I didn't get it this time then forever hold my peace ... the end result is the Lord answered a bunch to me through that one verse and it led me to peace in Christ and joy in Christ ... I've searched so hard for that for as long as I can remember ... He taught me what yoking with Him meant ... so much out of that one verse ...

and to that note ... I apologize to whomsoever it applies for being a bit radical in the last while ... my only pitiful 'defense' is I just plain reached the end you know ... where Jesus takes the wheel

 

[kaykay9.0]

well, it's cool you're here for whatever reason

I agree with you and r035198x about not putting God in a box ... I'm sure there's so much more to it than any one person can understand ... reading the posts on this thread, it reminds me sort of ... of God meeting us where we're at ... it's logical to me He would send the prophecy in the manner we would best know to receive it ... or something like that ...

yes it does make sense ... I would certainly agree if it settled way down in your soul ... like you know that you know that you now ... I can see where it wouldn't have to be confirmation of anything ... that's sort of the way it is for me when I have a dream I know is from the Lord ... it definitely doesn't always confirm something ... it usually is to enlighten me ... the ones I understand, that is ... is that what you mean?

Well, yes, in a sense, when something bears witness with us and we just, as you said, believe it's God. I guess I'm more concerned about someone receiving a prophecy in which they have no confirmation about it, and they feel that maybe it isn't God. To put it a different way, I think God can speak something to us prophetically that He hasn't before. However, I don't think we are compelled to believe something that we haven't heard from God previously if it DOESN'T seem or feel right to us in our spirits, and it hasn't been confirmed by others or in some pretty strong other ways.
Thanks for the welcome.
In other words, if a personal prophecy is NOT confirmation to us, I think we should either feel a confirming witness in our own spirit about it or it should be confirmed in other ways. We shouldn't accept something just because it came to us in a prophecy and this is especially true, I think, when it is NOT confirmation of something we have felt God previously said to us.

 

[lilmissmontana]

Well, yes, in a sense, when something bears witness with us and we just, as you said, believe it's God. I guess I'm more concerned about someone receiving a prophecy in which they have no confirmation about it, and they feel that maybe it isn't God. To put it a different way, I think God can speak something to us prophetically that He hasn't before. However, I don't think we are compelled to believe something that we haven't heard from God previously if it DOESN'T seem or feel right to us in our spirits, and it hasn't been confirmed by others or in some pretty strong other ways.
Thanks for the welcome.
In other words, if a personal prophecy is NOT confirmation to us, I think we should either feel a confirming witness in our own spirit about it or it should be confirmed in other ways.

I get it ... I think we're saying the same thing in a different way ... but I do get what you're saying ... and good point

 

[LinkH]

I believe if we get a prophecy we are responsible before god to accept it if it is genuine and reject it if it is false, and the Lord will help us.

But I also see danger in teaching people, "If it doesn't bear witness with your spirit, then reject it."

It can take a really long time for some people to realize that the Lrod is speaking to them. If we reject a prophecy out of hand saying, "That doesn't bear witnes with my spirit" we could be guilty of despising prophecies.

Kenneth Hagin' had a teaching that said since Romans 8 says, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God" we are led by the Spirit and not by prophets.

The problem with that line of reasoning is that it assumes the Spirit can't lead through prophets. Spirit doesn't always talk to each individual in an audible voice. Part of maturing in hearing God is being able to discern God's voice talking through people. Some people have a gift to do this well from early in their Christian walk and teach people based on their own experience. The problem is if the people you are teaching don't have a spiritual gift in this area, and they have been talk to reject prophecies that don't feel right when they get them, they could end up despising prophecies.

Does anyone have any Biblical basis for the idea that prophecies have to 'bear witness' or have to bear witness right away? Do you make room in your understanding of things for leaving a prophecy 'on the shelf' for a while while figuring out what to do with it?

 

[LinkH]

I had someone give me a prophecy several years back that I was going to be an evangelist...however, shortly before that I had felt in my spirit that God was calling me to be a Pastor. It really confused me, until two other people on separate occasions prophesied that I was called to be a pastor...

I can't comment on this evangelist prophecy about whether it was from the Lord or not. But if you are called to pastor, that doesn't mean you aren't called to be an evangelist. Perhaps the prophecy was using Biblical definitions for these terms.

The meaning of 'pastor' in the Bible differs from the way a lot of Christians understand it. The meaning of 'evangelist' differs to.

In the Bible, 'pastor' is another way of translating the word 'shepherd.' But in English, it means the CEO of a local church who delivers a sermon on Sunday morning and handles administrative tasks. In the Bible, we don't see this type of one-man pastorate role. The apostles appointed a group of elders and told them to pastor the flock of God. (Acts 20:28, I Peter 5:2. Look up 'feed' or 'tend' in Greek, depending on your translation.) And they were not the only ones to speak in church either. In I Corinthians 14:26, 'Every one of you' spoke, and the rest of the passage gives instructions on how believers could take turns speaking in an orderly manner.

Growing up Pentecostal, an 'evangelist' was a guy who came and held revival meetings at churches or crusades in gymnasiums and other places. If they stayed around for a while, some of them only had a few sermons. Some of them had more. Typically, these evangelists came to churches or church sponsored events and talked to mostly saved people, preaching on ow to get saved. Sometimes people brought friends. The ones that came to church sometimes preached really loud and would talk on healing and other topics in addition to salvation.

But in Acts, Philip the evangelist went to a place where people did not know the Gospel and it explained it to them. Some of them prophesied. Philip also did one on one evangelism, explaining the gospel to him.

'Evangelist' has been redefined to mean an itinerant minister who goes from church to church encouraging the people through teaching, prophecy, and exhortation, but who has not settled down in a 'church of his own.'

I believe someone could be a pastor and an evangelist. I do not think itinerating is the key characteristic of an evangelist. Rather, it is evangelism. Someone could be gifted to take care of the sheep in one location and also be gifted to bring people into the kingdom of God through the proclamation of the Gospel.