Does Paul reveal that "faith" is ambiguous with "believed"?

[guevaraj]

λέγομεν γάρ· Ἐλογίσθη τῷ Ἀβραὰμ ἡ πίστις εἰς δικαιοσύνην.

Translation from Greek: We are saying, for was credited to Abraham the belief (pistis) as righteousness. (Romans 4:9b)

Brothers and Sisters, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday, September 29, 2023 at 11:27 PM EDT! I have found a new truth from Paul! I thank Leaf473 for bringing this new truth from Paul to my attention in the above passage. James cites "believed" while Paul cites "faith" in Greek for Abraham's having "believed" in the original Hebrew, Paul revealing in the Greek New Testament that the word for "faith" in Greek is ambiguous between "faith" and "belief" in Hebrew. The Greek statement by Paul above uses the same word for "faith" when we know it refers to "believed" in Hebrew, making this Greek word ambiguous for two different Hebrew words. Given Paul's revelation about the use of "faith" in the Greek New Testament to sometimes refer to "belief" instead of "faith", James at the end of the post tells us we are not made right with God by "belief" alone when you understand that "faith" is ambiguous for "belief" in the Greek New Testament.

1. And Abram believed (aman) the LORD, and the LORD counted it to him as righteousness. (Genesis 15:6 NLT fixed)
2. “Look at the proud! They trust in themselves, and their lives are crooked. But the righteous will live by their faith (emunah). (Habakkuk 2:4 NLT fixed)

The two passages below in Greek quote the two Hebrew passages above using the same word in Greek for two different words in Hebrew. Both words "believed" and "faith" are translated from the same word in Greek when they are different words in Hebrew, deliberately making this Greek word ambiguous for the two different words in Hebrew.

1. Now, is this blessing (makarios) only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles? Well, we have been saying that Abraham, having believed (pistis), was credited as righteousness (noun). (Romans 4:9 NLT fixed)
2. This Good News tells us how God makes us right in his sight. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scriptures say, “It is through faith (pistis) that a righteous person has life.” (Romans 1:17 NLT)

I have corrected the untrue translation of a Greek quote from the Hebrew because of the use of a deliberately made ambiguous word in Greek. This ambiguous word that translators have used to give a false translation is corrected in the original Hebrew and verified to be false by having contradicted the below passage in James. There exists no "faith" without having done at least one act of God's given works of "righteousness", like circumcision, but only a "belief" which has yet to do at least one act of God's given works of "righteousness", like circumcision, to turn your having "believed" into "faith".

FAITH (noun) = BELIEVED (verb) + RIGHTEOUSNESS (noun)​

Except in the beginning of our faith when God credits your having believed as your first act of "righteousness", which completes your faith without having done a single act of God's given regular works of "righteousness", like circumcision in the case of Abraham. In the case of David receiving this blessing again at the beginning of his new faith, it means that all his previous acts of God's given works of "righteousness" were forgotten and David would have died for his sin had God not brought him into a new faith through the prophet Nathan.

“Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? says the Sovereign LORD. Of course not! I want them to turn from their wicked ways and live. However, if righteous (adjective) people turn from their righteousness (noun) and start doing sinful things and act like other sinners, should they be allowed to live? No, of course not! All their righteous acts will be forgotten, and they will die for their sins. (Ezekiel 18:23-26 NLT fixed)​

James does not use the ambiguous word revealed in Romans 4:9, citing Abraham's passage in Hebrew with the word for "belief", confirming that "belief" is not "faith" rather than using the same word for "faith" as in Romans 4:9, again verifying the deliberate use of "faith" as ambiguous for "belief" in the Greek New Testament. Having understood that the word for "faith" in Greek can also mean "belief", because it was revealed to be ambiguous for those two Hebrew words in Romans 4:9, allows us to translate the following passage even more clearly when sometimes it refers to "faith" and other times to "belief".

You say you have faith (pistis), for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith (pistis) without good deeds is inactive? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his BELIEF (pistis) and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith (pistis) complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed (pisteuó) God, and God credited to him as righteousness (noun).” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by BELIEF (pistis) alone. (James 2:19-24 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

Brothers and sisters, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday, October 20, 2023 at 11:01 AM EDT! A conversation on the topic of this thread is taking place on the following other thread: "Deleted Account", which used to be titled "The Thief On The Cross". The following is what I hope is a tantalizing direct quote from that thread to get more of you involved in the conversation.

Look, the problem here is you are actually interpreting the Bible using the Greek or Hebrew to scrutinize words. No one can understand the Bible this way.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[daq]

Brothers and sisters, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday, October 20, 2023 at 11:01 AM EDT! A conversation on the topic of this thread is taking place on the following other thread: "Deleted Account", which used to be titled "The Thief On The Cross". The following is what I hope is a tantalizing direct quote from that thread to get more of you involved in the conversation.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I was just reading some of that other thread you have linked. It appears to me that you have encountered yet another one of the many issues in the original languages that plague scholarship and that most others like to pretend do not exist. Emun/emunah, (transliterations of the Hebrew), are akin to firmness, moral fidelity, steadfastness, faithfulness, truth, trust, (of the unwavering kind), trustworthiness, and so on, and these may indeed also be rendered as forms of belief. However belief is not the same in the scripture as what people often seem to imagine it to mean today: even the meaning of belief has been watered down by modern preachers.

For example when Paul says, "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing (pisteuo), all things which are written in the law and in the prophets", (Acts 24:14), it is not the kind of believing that people mostly speak of and teach today: it means he fully puts his trust in, puts his faith in, and acts upon those things which he says he believes. It would therefore be two-faced and lying for him to say that he believes all things which are written in the Torah and the Prophets while teaching that the Torah has been set aside, abolished, rendered entirely idle, or whatever other phrases and terms people like to use in order to say essentially the same thing about the writings of Paul. If one does not incorporate into his or her doctrine the things that he or she claims to believe, and walk accordingly, then the same does not actually believe what they claim to believe, (in the manner in which belief is meant in the scripture).

 

[biblelesson]

I have found a new truth from Paul! I thank Leaf473 for bringing this new truth from Paul to my attention in the above passage. James cites "believed" while Paul cites "faith" in Greek for Abraham's having "believed" in the original Hebrew, Paul revealing in the Greek New Testament that the word for "faith" in Greek is ambiguous between "faith" and "belief" in Hebrew.

Translation from Greek: We are saying, for was credited to Abraham the belief (pistis) as righteousness. (Romans 4:9b)

There are other comments that you made in error, but I will just address’s this for now.

The way you understand Romans 4:9 KJV, is not by comparing faith with belief to determine ambiguity using the Greek to interpret the rightness or wrongness of a word in the bible.
You will not understand the gospel this way. You must search the other related scriptures for understanding.

Starting with the scripture you used:

Romans 4:9 KJV
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Looking at other scriptures provides more understanding:

Galatians 3:6 KJV, Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Romans 4:9 KJV says faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

The two scriptures are saying because Abraham believed God, faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness, instead of works.

God was establishing Salvation based on grace, and not works through reckoning Abraham’s faith as the basis of righteousness. That is He was removing the requirements of the law of works (Old Covenant) as the basis of righteousness, and instituting grace (New Covenant) as the basis of righteousness - if our belief is of the same faith as Abraham.

It is of that caliber of faith all believers must posses to be considered children of Abraham. Galatians 3:6-9 KJV,
6 “Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
7 “Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.”
8 “And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.”
9 “So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.”

If you are unable to see that Abraham believing God was a type of faith that God accounted for righteousness, where God established Abraham’s faith as the faith of the gospel, that all believers must posses to be Abraham’s children, then you will not understand what’s required for salvation.

You do not need to call on others to help you remain in error. There are plenty that will accommodate you.

Listen to those who are trying to correct error. Leave alone the practice of re-translating the Bible that has already been translated, and search the scriptures for answers. To understand one scripture, you must search for all corresponding scriptures for understanding, and you must pray for understanding- this way you allow the Holy Spirit to guide you.

There is nothing wrong with looking up definitions. But to actually change a word is wrong.

Deuteronomy 4:2 KJV, “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.”

Revelation 22:18-19 KJV,
18 “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:”

19 “And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

 

[HIM]

No verse nine is not quoting Genesis 15 verse 3 is, As a matter of fact it is almost verbatim of the Septuagint. The only difference is highlighted in red below. Verse nine is a totally different grammar construct and context. Stating Believing not circumcision was the action that showed his state of being, his Faith which reckoned into Him righteousness. Take care.

Rom 4:3 τί What γὰρ For ἡ The γραφὴ Scripture λέγει Says? Ἐπίστευσεν Believed δὲ but Ἀβραὰμ Abraham τῷ by the θεῷ God, καὶ And ἐλογίσθη Was Reckoned αὐτῷ To Him εἰς into δικαιοσύνην Righteousness.

Gen 15:6 καὶ and ἐπίστευσεν believed Αβραμ Abram τῷ by the θεῷ God καὶ, and ἐλογίσθη was reckoned αὐτῷ to him εἰς into δικαιοσύνην righteousness

Rom 4:9 ὁ 'Is' This μακαρισμὸς οὖν Blessedness οὗτος Then ἐπὶ On τὴν The περιτομὴν Circumcision ἢ Or καὶ Also ἐπὶ On τὴν The ἀκροβυστίαν Uncircumcision? λέγομεν We Say γάρ For ὅτι That Ἐλογίσθη Was Reckoned τῷ To the Ἀβραὰμ Abraham ἡ the πίστις Faith εἰς into δικαιοσύνην Righteousness.

 

[guevaraj]

No verse nine is not quoting Genesis 15, verse 3 is... Verse nine is a totally different grammar construct and context. Stating Believing not circumcision was the action that showed his state of being, his Faith which reckoned into Him righteousness. Take care.

Brother, it is clear in the original Abraham passage that his having "believed" and not his "faith" was credited to Abraham as "righteousness", "faith" being a different Hebrew word. What you are pointing out is that we do not even have to turn to the original Hebrew to know that Paul has seemingly contradicted the original Abraham passage, because he gives us the correct quoting of the Hebrew with "believed" before he switches from the verb "believed" over to the noun "faith", the noun "faith" being a different word in Hebrew replacing the original verb "believed" in the Abraham passage as what is credited as "righteousness". In summary, Paul is seemingly treating "believed" and "faith" as interchangeable equivalent words when they are different words in Hebrew. There is only one way to understand Paul without having him contradict the original Abraham passage. God has shown through Paul the deliberate act of making the Greek word "pistis" ambiguous for two different words: the verb "belief" and the noun "faith" in the Greek New Testament.

Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What did he discover about being made right with God? If his good deeds had made him acceptable to God, he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God’s way. For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed (verb) God, and God credited to him for righteousness (noun)”. When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. But people are credited righteousness (dikaiosuné), not because of their work, but because of their belief (pistis) in God who forgives sinners. David also spoke of this when he described the happiness of those who are credited righteousness (dikaiosuné) without working for it: “Oh, what joy for those whose disobedience is forgiven, whose sins are put out of sight. Yes, what joy for those whose record the LORD has cleared of sin.” Now, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles? Well, we have been saying that Abraham was credited righteousness (dikaiosuné) by God because of his belief (pistis). But how did this happen? Was he credited righteousness (dikaiosuné) only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised! (Romans 4:1-10 NLT fixed)​

The second complication in the above passage is understood when David receives this "blessing" of initial forgiveness for his having "believed" God after having sinned by taking another man's wife. David, having received this "blessing" again at the beginning of his new "faith", having "believed" God that he was worthy of death for his sin meant that all his previous acts of God's given works of "righteousness" were forgotten and David would have died for his sin had God not brought him into a new "faith" through the prophet Nathan.

“Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? says the Sovereign LORD. Of course not! I want them to turn from their wicked ways and live. However, if righteous (adjective) people turn from their righteousness (noun) and start doing sinful things and act like other sinners, should they be allowed to live? No, of course not! All their righteous acts will be forgotten, and they will die for their sins. (Ezekiel 18:23-26 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

There are other comments that you made in error, but I will just address’s this for now. The way you understand Romans 4:9 KJV, is not by comparing faith with belief to determine ambiguity using the Greek to interpret the rightness or wrongness of a word in the bible.
You will not understand the gospel this way. You must search the other related scriptures for understanding. Starting with the scripture you used: Romans 4:9 KJV Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Sister, happy Sabbath, having started this Friday, October 27, 2023 at 10:54 AM EDT! That is exactly what I am doing, comparing Paul's message with the original Abraham message he is quoting. They do not match! Paul in our English Bibles is apparently changing from the word "belief" to "faith" for what is credited as "righteousness". Either Paul has changed the word of God by the prophets, disqualifying his ministry by saying something different than the original Abraham passage when he substitutes Abraham's having "believed" with a different Hebrew word "faith" not written in the original Abraham passage for what is credited as "righteousness", or Paul has not changed the original Abraham passage at all and is revealing an ambiguous word in Greek that can mean "belief" just as in the original Abraham passage. That revelation by Paul of an ambiguous word would mean that the Greek word "pistis" should not always be translated in our English Bibles as "faith" when it sometimes refers to "belief", depending on the context. God has given us rules of inspiration where what comes first triumphs over what comes later. Any contradiction that says something different from what was said before eliminates what comes after not having been inspired by God. Knowing from an abundance of evidence that Paul is inspired and cannot be stating a contradiction only leads to one conclusion, that God has deliberately made "pistis" an ambiguous word in the Greek New Testament that can either refer to the verb "belief" or the noun "faith" in Hebrew. In other words, we cannot change what is in the prior Hebrew, but we can change our view of the newer Greek word so as not to contradict the original Hebrew, arriving at the same conclusion of God making the new Greek word ambiguous for two prior Hebrew words.

Looking at other scriptures provides more understanding: Galatians 3:6 KJV, Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 4:9 KJV says faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. The two scriptures are saying because Abraham believed God, faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness, instead of works.

The second Greek passages seem to say something different from the original Abraham passage where it is "belief" and not "faith" that is credited for righteousness. No New Testament scripture written by Paul can be trusted until the contradiction between Paul's Greek and the Hebrew cited is resolved by the understanding that God has made the Greek word "pistis" in the New Testament ambiguous for two Hebrew words: the verb "belief" and the noun "faith" in Hebrew. All those places where "faith" appears in the Greek New Testament can refer to "belief" and not "faith" because the word "pistis" in the Greek New Testament is ambiguous between the two Hebrew words: the verb "belief" and the noun "faith" in Hebrew.

Look to God’s instructions and teachings! People who contradict his word are completely in the dark. (Isaiah 8:20 NLT)​

God was establishing Salvation based on grace, and not works through reckoning Abraham’s faith as the basis of righteousness. That is He was removing the requirements of the law of works (Old Covenant) as the basis of righteousness, and instituting grace (New Covenant) as the basis of righteousness - if our belief is of the same faith as Abraham.

That is a human tradition based on ignoring how God has used the word "pistis" in the New Testament revealed by Paul. When Paul cites the Hebrew verb "believed" using the Greek word that we always translate as the noun "faith", Paul is showing that "pistis" can also mean "belief", which is not "faith".

It is of that caliber of faith all believers must posses to be considered children of Abraham. Galatians 3:6-9 KJV,
6 “Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
7 “Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.”
8 “And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.”
9 “So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.”

That refers to "faith" that works and is not "belief" alone because of a misunderstanding of how God uses the word "pistis" in the Greek New Testament, where it is ambiguous for two Hebrew words: the verb "belief" and the noun "faith" in Hebrew.

You say you have faith (pistis), for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith (pistis) without good deeds is inactive? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his belief (pistis) and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith (pistis) complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed (pisteuó) God, and God credited to him as righteousness (work).” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do (faith), not by belief (pistis) alone. (James 2:19-24 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

If you are unable to see that Abraham believing God was a type of faith that God accounted for righteousness, where God established Abraham’s faith as the faith of the gospel, that all believers must posses to be Abraham’s children, then you will not understand what’s required for salvation.

Abraham obeyed God unlike most Christians today that think they do not have to obey anything God has written to be saved because they have not paid attention to God's deliberate ambiguous word that Paul reveals in the Greek New Testament to properly understand the word "faith" that works, not being "belief" alone.

You do not need to call on others to help you remain in error. There are plenty that will accommodate you. Listen to those who are trying to correct error. Leave alone the practice of re-translating the Bible that has already been translated, and search the scriptures for answers. To understand one scripture, you must search for all corresponding scriptures for understanding, and you must pray for understanding- this way you allow the Holy Spirit to guide you.

I am using all of the scriptures given by the Holy Spirit, whose inspiration is guaranteed through the prophets, and do not limit myself to a wrong view of the Greek New Testament by disregarding how the use by Paul of the Hebrew Old Testament affects the word we translate as "faith", revealing that "pistis" is not always "faith" but can also refer to "belief" which is not "faith". God changed through the use of the Old Testament how the New Testament is to be interpreted.

There is nothing wrong with looking up definitions. But to actually change a word is wrong. Deuteronomy 4:2 KJV, “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.” Revelation 22:18-19 KJV, 18 “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:” 19 “And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

I am not using a human definition for "pistis" but God's definition, where He has made the word ambiguous in the Greek New Testament for two prior Hebrew words in the Old Testament. I have not neglected the facts in the Hebrew Old Testament about Abraham, because others like what they think the New Testament says when you disregard what God said prior, that changes how we are to understand the Greek New Testament. Where Paul, instead of contradicting the original Abraham passage, is revealing an ambiguous Greek word "pistis" between two different Hebrew words that does not contradict the original Abraham passage when it is understood to represent "belief" as in the original Abraham passage and should not always be translated as "faith" in our English Bibles.

You say you have faith (pistis), for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith (pistis) without good deeds is inactive? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his belief (pistis) and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith (pistis) complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed (pisteuó) God, and God credited to him as righteousness (work).” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do (faith), not by belief (pistis) alone. (James 2:19-24 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[biblelesson]

That is exactly what I am doing, comparing Paul's message with the original Abraham message he is quoting. They do not match! Paul in our English Bibles is apparently changing from the word "belief" to "faith" for what is credited as "righteousness". Either Paul has changed the word of God by the prophets, disqualifying his ministry by saying something different than the original Abraham passage when he substitutes Abraham's having "believed" with a different Hebrew word "faith" not written in the original Abraham passage for what is credited as "righteousness", or Paul has not changed the original Abraham passage at all and is revealing an ambiguous word in Greek that can mean "belief" just as in the original Abraham passage.

They do match. I understand what Paul is saying. Let me assist you if you will receive the help.

You are saying either faith or belief should be used based on the Greek interpretation. However, the word faith and belief are not being used the same, so there is no mistake.

Belief is being used one way: for example, when asked if you believe me do this act. Therefore Abraham showed he believed God by his actions. This action is called faith.

God took the “faith of Abraham” and made it a requirement for salvation, and credited it for righteousness, where anyone who follow the gospel of Christ is “of the faith” and are made righteous.
Now a believer is “of the faith” because they believed. Can you see this?

Please don’t list a bunch of scriptures because I understand what Paul is saying.

 

[biblelesson]

They do not match! Paul in our English Bibles is apparently changing from the word "belief" to "faith" for what is credited as "righteousness"

I think these are the scriptures you are saying don’t match: I highlighted what I think might be he issue.


Romans 4:9 KJV
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Galatians 3:6 KJV, Even as Abraham believed God,and it [his faith]was accounted to him for righteousness.

Romans 4:9 KJV says faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Galatians 3:6 left the word faith out, but we know what he means because of the two verses in Romans.

Because of Abraham’s faith, our faith is reckoned unto us as righteousness because we believe in Jesus according to the gospel, that is according to “the faith” making us “of the faith” of Abraham.

Both words can be used interchangeably, but the faith of the gospel is based off of the faith Abraham possessed.

 

[Gary K]

I came to the conclusion in my mid 20's that the word faith ought to be a verb for it implies actions taken in the life of a Christian. If we truly believe in the redemption of Jesus' life death and resurrection our lives will change.

 

[guevaraj]

They do match.

Sister, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday, November 3, 2023 at 10:48 AM EDT! "Faith" is not the same as "belief", these words are not interchangeable. The only way Paul is not contradicting the original Abraham passage is if the Greek word "pistis" can mean "belief' just as in the original Abraham passage, making it an ambiguous Greek word for two different Hebrew words: the verb "belief" and the noun "faith".

I understand what Paul is saying.

You are contradicting the original Abraham passage in Genesis to defend a human tradition for "faith" being "belief" alone based on the translators not recognizing the use by Paul of an ambiguous word "pistis" in the Greek New Testament that can represent two different Hebrew words depending on context: the verb "belief" and the noun "faith".

Let me assist you if you will receive the help. You are saying either faith or belief should be used based on the Greek interpretation. However, the word faith and belief are not being used the same, so there is no mistake.

They are both being used interchangeably in our English translation for what is credited as righteousness, because the translators have not understood that "pistis" can refer to "belief" and is not always "faith", being an ambiguous word in Greek for two different Hebrew words.

Belief is being used one way: for example, when asked if you believe me do this act. Therefore Abraham showed he believed God by his actions. This action is called faith.

You seem to understand in your above statement that "faith" includes doing acts of "righteousness" and is not just "belief" alone.

God took the “faith of Abraham” and made it a requirement for salvation, and credited it for righteousness, where anyone who follow the gospel of Christ is “of the faith” and are made righteous. Now a believer is “of the faith” because they believed. Can you see this? Please don’t list a bunch of scriptures because I understand what Paul is saying.

"Righteousness" is doing an act of work that God gives us to do and "righteous" is a person who does all of God's given works of "righteousness". God having credited Abraham's having "believed" also as an act of "righteousness" does not make us "righteous". For us to be "righteous", we have to obey all of God's given works of "righteousness", like circumcision in the case of Abraham continuing his "faith" by obeying all that God asked of him.

“Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? says the Sovereign LORD. Of course not! I want them to turn from their wicked ways and live. However, if righteous (adjective) people turn from their righteousness (noun) and start doing sinful things and act like other sinners, should they be allowed to live? No, of course not! All their righteous acts will be forgotten, and they will die for their sins. (Ezekiel 18:23-26 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

I think these are the scriptures you are saying don’t match: I highlighted what I think might be he issue.

Sister, what does not match in our English Bibles is that Abraham's "belief" and not his "faith" was credited to him as "righteousness". This gift of Abraham's first work of "righteousness" completed his "faith" without having worked for it by having done no regular works of "righteousness" other than having received the gift of being credited with his first act of "righteousness" for having "believed" that gave him initial forgiveness of all past sins. "Faith" is having "believed" in addition to doing works of "righteousness" which Abraham had before circumcision, because his "belief" was also credited as an act of "righteousness", completing his "faith" that granted him initial forgiveness of all past sins before his having done additional works of "righteousness" by adding the act of circumcision to his "faith".

FAITH = BELIEVED + RIGHTEOUSNESS (work or a gift when you believed, completing your faith without having done any regular work of obedience to start your faith)​

This gift of initial forgiveness of all sins without having worked for it was granted because God had credited Abraham's "belief" as his first work of "righteousness", completing his "faith" before needing to add the additional work of righteousness of circumcision. This gift of initial forgiveness for all past sins is verified by David having received this gift again after his sin of having taken another man's wife, where David did not have to do any regular works of righteousness at the temple to get his forgiveness as a gift, because his having "believed" God's message through the prophet Nathan was credited to David as his first act of "righteousness" for his new faith, his prior "faith" having failed to give him mastery over sin.

Then David confessed to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” Nathan replied, “Yes, but the LORD has forgiven you, and you won’t die for this sin. (2 Samuel 12:13 NLT)​

Romans 4:9 KJV
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Not a correct translation in our English Bibles. It is Abraham's having "believed" and not his "faith" that was credited as "righteousness"! The translators didn't understand that the Greek word "pistis" can mean "belief" and not always "faith" because it is ambiguous in the Greek New Testament for two different words in Hebrew.

Galatians 3:6 KJV, Even as Abraham believed God,and it [his faith]was accounted to him for righteousness.

You have made the statement false by adding what is not in the original. It is Abraham's having "believed" and not "faith" that was credited as "righteousness" completing his "faith", "faith" having two parts: belief (trust) and righteousness (work).

And Abram believed (trusted) the LORD, and the LORD counted it to him as righteousness (work). (Genesis 15:6 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

Romans 4:9 KJV says faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

An incorrect translation that makes Paul "contradict" the original Abraham passage by replacing the verb "believed" with the noun "faith" for what is credited as "righteousness", saying something different than what was revealed in the original Abraham passage Paul is quoting. Paul is not changing the original passage as the translators have made it out to be in our English Bibles, because he is actually revealing an ambiguous word in Greek, "pistis" that means "belief", just as in the original Abraham passage. The translators have "contradicted" the word of God in the original Abraham passage guaranteed by the prophets because they failed to recognize that Paul is revealing an ambiguous word in Greek for two different Hebrew words.

Look to God’s instructions and teachings! People who contradict his word are completely in the dark. (Isaiah 8:20 NLT)​

Galatians 3:6 left the word faith out, but we know what he means because of the two verses in Romans.

If Paul meant what you are saying, which he does not, then his ministry is disqualified for having changed the word of God guaranteed by the prophets and nothing he says can be trusted. It is not Paul that has "contradicted" the scriptures but the translators from Greek to English! The translators are the ones who have "contradicted" the word of God in the original Abraham passage guaranteed by the prophets, because they failed to recognize that Paul is revealing an ambiguous word in Greek that can mean "belief" as in the original Abraham passage and is not always "faith" in contradiction to the original Abraham passage where it is having "believed" and not "faith" that is credited as "righteousness".

Look to God’s instructions and teachings! People who contradict his word are completely in the dark. (Isaiah 8:20 NLT)​

Because of Abraham’s faith, our faith is reckoned unto us as righteousness because we believe in Jesus according to the gospel, that is according to “the faith” making us “of the faith” of Abraham. Both words can be used interchangeably, but the faith of the gospel is based off of the faith Abraham possessed.

As in any good definition the word defined does not appear in the definition of Abraham's "faith" in the following original passage in Hebrew where faith has two parts: trust and work. Abraham's "faith" is composed of the two parts mentioned in the original Abraham passage below in the Hebrew of the book of Genesis where faith is: believed (trust) + "righteousness" (work). In the form of an equation: Faith (has two parts) = Believed (trust) + Righteousness (work).

And Abram believed (trusted) the LORD, and the LORD counted it to him as righteousness (work). (Genesis 15:6 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

Having "faith" be what is credited as "righteousness" in our English bibles contradicts the original Abraham passage above and is a false understanding based on a misrepresentation of how Paul uses the word "pistis" to give us an ambiguous word that means "belief", just as in the original Abraham passage above in Hebrew. Hebrew has a different word for "faith" not used in the above original Abraham passage in Genesis. This ambiguous use of the word "pistis" revealed by Paul is verified in the following passage where "belief" alone is not sufficient.

You say you have faith (pistis), for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith (pistis) without good deeds is inactive? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith/belief (pistis) and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith (pistis) complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed (pisteuó) God, and God credited to him as righteousness (work).” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do (faith), not by faith/belief (pistis) alone. (James 2:19-24 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[biblelesson]

ou are contradicting the original Abraham passage in Genesis to defend a human tradition for "faith" being "belief" alone based on the translators not recognizing the use by Paul of an ambiguous word "pistis" in the Greek New Testament that can represent two different Hebrew words depending on context: the verb "belief" and the noun "faith".

You seem to be so caught up on the word faith or belief, but have not considered the entire plan of God through Abraham.

Were you raised Greek or Hebrew? Do you speak Greek or Hebrew fluently? Can you write Greek or Hebrew fluently? No you cannot!

Those who already translated the Bible from Greek and Hebrew to English were scholars who studied the Greek and Hebrew extensively in their life time because they made a life work out of it. They understood the culture, spoke the language and wrote the language.

Now here you come with a book in Greek and/or Hebrew that you use to search a word in English that has already been examined and scrutinized by those with extensive knowledge in translation some 400 years ago.

Those who translated the Bible knew what they were doing.

 

[biblelesson]

Sister, what does not match in our English Bibles is that Abraham's "belief" and not his "faith" was credited to him as "righteousness". This gift of Abraham's first work of "righteousness" completed his "faith" without having worked for it by having done no regular works of "righteousness" other than having received the gift of being credited with his first act of "righteousness" for having "believed" that gave him initial forgiveness of all past sins. "Faith" is having "believed" in addition to doing works of "righteousness" which Abraham had before circumcision, because his "belief" was also credited as an act of "righteousness", completing his "faith" that granted him initial forgiveness of all past sins before his having done additional works of "righteousness" by adding the act of circumcision to his "faith".

FAITH = BELIEVED + RIGHTEOUSNESS (work or a gift when you believed, completing your faith without having done any regular work of obedience to start your faith)​

This gift of initial forgiveness of all sins without having worked for it was granted because God had credited Abraham's "belief" as his first work of "righteousness", completing his "faith" before needing to add the additional work of righteousness of circumcision. This gift of initial forgiveness for all past sins is verified by David having received this gift again after his sin of having taken another man's wife, where David did not have to do any regular works of righteousness at the temple to get his forgiveness as a gift, because his having "believed" God's message through the prophet Nathan was credited to David as his first act of "righteousness" for his new faith, his prior "faith" having failed to give him mastery over sin.

Then David confessed to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” Nathan replied, “Yes, but the LORD has forgiven you, and you won’t die for this sin. (2 Samuel 12:13 NLT)​

Not a correct translation in our English Bibles. It is Abraham's having "believed" and not his "faith" that was credited as "righteousness"! The translators didn't understand that the Greek word "pistis" can mean "belief" and not always "faith" because it is ambiguous in the Greek New Testament for two different words in Hebrew.

You have made the statement false by adding what is not in the original. It is Abraham's having "believed" and not "faith" that was credited as "righteousness" completing his "faith", "faith" having two parts: belief (trust) and righteousness (work).

And Abram believed (trusted) the LORD, and the LORD counted it to him as righteousness (work). (Genesis 15:6 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

An incorrect translation that makes Paul "contradict" the original Abraham passage by replacing the verb "believed" with the noun "faith" for what is credited as "righteousness", saying something different than what was revealed in the original Abraham passage Paul is quoting. Paul is not changing the original passage as the translators have made it out to be in our English Bibles, because he is actually revealing an ambiguous word in Greek, "pistis" that means "belief", just as in the original Abraham passage. The translators have "contradicted" the word of God in the original Abraham passage guaranteed by the prophets because they failed to recognize that Paul is revealing an ambiguous word in Greek for two different Hebrew words.

Look to God’s instructions and teachings! People who contradict his word are completely in the dark. (Isaiah 8:20 NLT)​

If Paul meant what you are saying, which he does not, then his ministry is disqualified for having changed the word of God guaranteed by the prophets and nothing he says can be trusted. It is not Paul that has "contradicted" the scriptures but the translators from Greek to English! The translators are the ones who have "contradicted" the word of God in the original Abraham passage guaranteed by the prophets, because they failed to recognize that Paul is revealing an ambiguous word in Greek that can mean "belief" as in the original Abraham passage and is not always "faith" in contradiction to the original Abraham passage where it is having "believed" and not "faith" that is credited as "righteousness".

Look to God’s instructions and teachings! People who contradict his word are completely in the dark. (Isaiah 8:20 NLT)​

As in any good definition the word defined does not appear in the definition of Abraham's "faith" in the following original passage in Hebrew where faith has two parts: trust and work. Abraham's "faith" is composed of the two parts mentioned in the original Abraham passage below in the Hebrew of the book of Genesis where faith is: believed (trust) + "righteousness" (work). In the form of an equation: Faith (has two parts) = Believed (trust) + Righteousness (work).

And Abram believed (trusted) the LORD, and the LORD counted it to him as righteousness (work). (Genesis 15:6 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

Having "faith" be what is credited as "righteousness" in our English bibles contradicts the original Abraham passage above and is a false understanding based on a misrepresentation of how Paul uses the word "pistis" to give us an ambiguous word that means "belief", just as in the original Abraham passage above in Hebrew. Hebrew has a different word for "faith" not used in the above original Abraham passage in Genesis. This ambiguous use of the word "pistis" revealed by Paul is verified in the following passage where "belief" alone is not sufficient.

You say you have faith (pistis), for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith (pistis) without good deeds is inactive? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith/belief (pistis) and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith (pistis) complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed (pisteuó) God, and God credited to him as righteousness (work).” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do (faith), not by faith/belief (pistis) alone. (James 2:19-24 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

This is getting tiresome! I do not agree with you. I see your understanding as being misled. That’s my position on the subject.

 

[guevaraj]

Those who already translated the Bible from Greek and Hebrew to English were scholars who studied the Greek and Hebrew extensively in their life time because they made a life work out of it. They understood the culture, spoke the language and wrote the language... Those who translated the Bible knew what they were doing.

Sister, it is not the only blunder the translators have made. The King James Version (KJV) misidentified "Joshua" before David as "Jesus", forcing the message to seem to refer to the present after Jesus when the original message was about a past mistake in the understanding of the Sabbath by Joshua when they transitioned to a different Sabbath without Manna in the Promised Land. For forty years, when they kept the seventh day with Manna, God tells us in Hebrews that He had punished them not to enter His "day" of rest available since the first week of creation, which they later entered in the Promised Land at an earlier time than the seventh day of the week. Joshua did not pay any attention to the change from a day of the week from morning to morning to the evening to evening Sabbath and assumed wrongly that this earlier Sabbath, from evening to evening, was also the seventh day of the week in the Promised Land, overlooking the fact that the days of the week were in the desert from morning to morning for 40 years.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 KJV)​

The above blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus is later corrected without correcting its forced twisting effect on the rest of the passage.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 NKJV)​

This blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus hid the true message of the book of Hebrews for generations of readers of the English translation of the scriptures when Jesus wanted us to keep His first week's Sabbath "day" corrected from human tradition since Joshua, where Joshua wrongly thought the Sabbath in Jerusalem was the seventh day of the week when the Sabbath is fixed in the time zone of Eden and falls at a different time in Jerusalem, half a day before the seventh day of the week. The KJV twisted the message of the passage to fit their misidentification that many other translations followed even after the misidentification was corrected, but not corrected was its effect on the rest of the message in the book of Hebrews. Many translations continue the error started by the KJV's misidentification of Joshua as Jesus in Hebrews, chapter 4, when Jesus was not before David to make the "good news" of entering the Sabbath be mistranslated as the "gospel" of Jesus. The wrong translation of "gospel" for the phrase the "good news" of entering the Sabbath has influenced wrongly many other Bible translations after the KJV. The newer NKJV fixes the misidentification of Joshua as Jesus but not its effect on the rest of the passage, like the "gospel" of Jesus (not possible before David), for the phrase, the "good news" of entering the Sabbath, first heard by those that died in the desert.

For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. (Hebrews 4:2 NKJV)​

The blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus changed the below "good news" of entering the Sabbath to the above "gospel" of Jesus, forcing the message to seem to be about the present when it is about a past misunderstanding of the Sabbath. The New Living Translation (NLT) was a complete effort from the original languages which finally corrected this twisting of the scriptures by the KJV that influenced so many other translations.

For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. (Hebrews 4:2 NLT)​

Those, like Joshua, who first heard the "good news", that God had prepared this rest" since the first week of creation, were punished not to enter the Sabbath by an "oath" near the Promised Land with Manna, that Joshua later entered before the seventh day of the week from evening to evening, having been prevented from entering the Sabbath with Manna for 40 years from morning to morning near the Promised Land. In the following Hebrews passage corrected from the blunder of the KJV, "another day" refers to a different day than the one thought for the Sabbath since Joshua: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the first week of creation remembered in the time zone of creation half a day before the seventh day in Jerusalem. We do not automatically enter the "day" of rest by accepting the "good news" of entering the Sabbath "announced to us just as it was to them" in the desert, like the KJV mistranslated. What we "can" enter is the "day" of rest in the new covenant "announced to us just as it was to them" by understanding how God prevented Joshua from entering the Sabbath for 40 years in the desert by punishing them by having them keep the seventh day of the week near the Promised Land when the Sabbath is entered earlier than the Seventh day of the week in the Promised Land.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

This is getting tiresome! I do not agree with you. I see your understanding as being misled. That’s my position on the subject.

Sister, you have been "deceived" into believing the "lies" that you will "inherit eternal life" without you having to obey any of Jesus' new total of Eleven Commandments. As the Bible tells us in the following passage, "lies" for those "enjoying" the sin of disobeying rather than believing "the truth" that God expects more from us now with a total of Eleven Commandments than He did from the Jews with the previous Ten Commandments, correcting His Sabbath in the Fourth Commandment after Jesus from human tradition since Joshua in the book of Hebrews. The King James Version (KJV) hides this message about the Sabbath not being the seventh day of the week everywhere, when it falls half a day before the seventh day in Jerusalem. Judaism wrongly thinks since Joshua that the Sabbath in Jerusalem is the seventh day of the week when it is kept in the time zone of Eden and their week is wrongly shifted back by half a day. Jesus wants us now to keep the Sabbath corrected from human tradition since Joshua, that the KJV hid from us by forcing a twisted translation based on the misidentification of Joshua as Jesus that I gave evidence to in the previous post. Below, you will hear from Jesus that God now wants us to obey a total of Eleven Commandments, one more than the previous Ten Commandments. Jesus shared this "one thing you haven't done" of "follow me" with a "religious leader" in Luke, Jesus being the example "Spirit" to follow that Paul tells us of!

This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 NLT)​

Human beings have said Jesus replaced His Ten Commandments with an Eleventh Commandment when Jesus asks us to obey "all" His Eleven Commandments in the following passage where, having answered with the previous Ten Commandments, Jesus adds "one more thing you haven't done", bringing the total after Him of Eleven Commandments. The following passage tells us that Jesus has given us an Eleventh Commandment with the phrase "one thing you haven't done", after answering the question with: you know "the commandments"! Jesus' answer makes the "one thing you haven't done" an additional Eleventh Commandment. Consistent with us knowing the additional Eleventh Commandment in the new covenant of following Jesus' example. Paul says, Jesus is our model "Spirit" to follow. We are not to follow Judaism's human system of "law" that sabotaged the Ten Commandments to not remove sin in the resulting sons of Hagar, instead of God's will that we be sons of Sarah obeying His previous Ten Commandments as well as the new Eleventh Commandment.

Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments (entolé): ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)​

The new Eleventh Commandment above is found in the following passage, where to do "just as I have" is to "follow" His example by keeping a total of Eleven Commandments when Jesus adds one more to the previous Ten Commandments, saying above: "there is still one thing you haven't done".

As soon as Judas left the room, Jesus said, “The time has come for the Son of Man to enter into his glory, and God will be glorified because of him. And since God receives glory because of the Son, he will give his own glory to the Son, and he will do so at once. Dear children, I will be with you only a little longer. And as I told the Jewish leaders, you will search for me, but you can’t come where I am going. So now I am giving you a new commandment (entolé): Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples.” (John 13:31-35 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[biblelesson]

Sister, it is not the only blunder the translators have made. The King James Version (KJV) misidentified "Joshua" before David as "Jesus", forcing the message to seem to refer to the present after Jesus when the original message was about a past mistake in the understanding of the Sabbath by Joshua when they transitioned to a different Sabbath without Manna in the Promised Land. For forty years, when they kept the seventh day with Manna, God tells us in Hebrews that He had punished them not to enter His "day" of rest available since the first week of creation, which they later entered in the Promised Land at an earlier time than the seventh day of the week. Joshua did not pay any attention to the change from a day of the week from morning to morning to the evening to evening Sabbath and assumed wrongly that this earlier Sabbath, from evening to evening, was also the seventh day of the week in the Promised Land, overlooking the fact that the days of the week were in the desert from morning to morning for 40 years.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 KJV)​

The above blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus is later corrected without correcting its forced twisting effect on the rest of the passage.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 NKJV)​

This blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus hid the true message of the book of Hebrews for generations of readers of the English translation of the scriptures when Jesus wanted us to keep His first week's Sabbath "day" corrected from human tradition since Joshua, where Joshua wrongly thought the Sabbath in Jerusalem was the seventh day of the week when the Sabbath is fixed in the time zone of Eden and falls at a different time in Jerusalem, half a day before the seventh day of the week. The KJV twisted the message of the passage to fit their misidentification that many other translations followed even after the misidentification was corrected, but not corrected was its effect on the rest of the message in the book of Hebrews. Many translations continue the error started by the KJV's misidentification of Joshua as Jesus in Hebrews, chapter 4, when Jesus was not before David to make the "good news" of entering the Sabbath be mistranslated as the "gospel" of Jesus. The wrong translation of "gospel" for the phrase the "good news" of entering the Sabbath has influenced wrongly many other Bible translations after the KJV. The newer NKJV fixes the misidentification of Joshua as Jesus but not its effect on the rest of the passage, like the "gospel" of Jesus (not possible before David), for the phrase, the "good news" of entering the Sabbath, first heard by those that died in the desert.

For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. (Hebrews 4:2 NKJV)​

The blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus changed the below "good news" of entering the Sabbath to the above "gospel" of Jesus, forcing the message to seem to be about the present when it is about a past misunderstanding of the Sabbath. The New Living Translation (NLT) was a complete effort from the original languages which finally corrected this twisting of the scriptures by the KJV that influenced so many other translations.

For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. (Hebrews 4:2 NLT)​

Those, like Joshua, who first heard the "good news", that God had prepared this rest" since the first week of creation, were punished not to enter the Sabbath by an "oath" near the Promised Land with Manna, that Joshua later entered before the seventh day of the week from evening to evening, having been prevented from entering the Sabbath with Manna for 40 years from morning to morning near the Promised Land. In the following Hebrews passage corrected from the blunder of the KJV, "another day" refers to a different day than the one thought for the Sabbath since Joshua: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the first week of creation remembered in the time zone of creation half a day before the seventh day in Jerusalem. We do not automatically enter the "day" of rest by accepting the "good news" of entering the Sabbath "announced to us just as it was to them" in the desert, like the KJV mistranslated. What we "can" enter is the "day" of rest in the new covenant "announced to us just as it was to them" by understanding how God prevented Joshua from entering the Sabbath for 40 years in the desert by punishing them by having them keep the seventh day of the week near the Promised Land when the Sabbath is entered earlier than the Seventh day of the week in the Promised Land.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You really don’t have to write so much. I have seen your interpretations. I still don’t agree. I offered what I believe is truth. You are offering what you believe is truth. I think you are terribly wrong in what you are doing with trying to say those scholars made a mistake and your use of the Greek and Hebrew to so call re-translate what has already been translated.

God bless you!

 

[biblelesson]

Sister, you have been "deceived" into believing the "lies" that you will "inherit eternal life" without you having to obey any of Jesus' new total of Eleven Commandments. As the Bible tells us in the following passage, "lies" for those "enjoying" the sin of disobeying rather than believing "the truth" that God expects more from us now with a total of Eleven Commandments than He did from the Jews with the previous Ten Commandments, correcting His Sabbath in the Fourth Commandment after Jesus from human tradition since Joshua in the book of Hebrews. The King James Version (KJV) hides this message about the Sabbath not being the seventh day of the week everywhere, when it falls half a day before the seventh day in Jerusalem. Judaism wrongly thinks since Joshua that the Sabbath in Jerusalem is the seventh day of the week when it is kept in the time zone of Eden and their week is wrongly shifted back by half a day. Jesus wants us now to keep the Sabbath corrected from human tradition since Joshua, that the KJV hid from us by forcing a twisted translation based on the misidentification of Joshua as Jesus that I gave evidence to in the previous post. Below, you will hear from Jesus that God now wants us to obey a total of Eleven Commandments, one more than the previous Ten Commandments. Jesus shared this "one thing you haven't done" of "follow me" with a "religious leader" in Luke, Jesus being the example "Spirit" to follow that Paul tells us of!

This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 NLT)​

Human beings have said Jesus replaced His Ten Commandments with an Eleventh Commandment when Jesus asks us to obey "all" His Eleven Commandments in the following passage where, having answered with the previous Ten Commandments, Jesus adds "one more thing you haven't done", bringing the total after Him of Eleven Commandments. The following passage tells us that Jesus has given us an Eleventh Commandment with the phrase "one thing you haven't done", after answering the question with: you know "the commandments"! Jesus' answer makes the "one thing you haven't done" an additional Eleventh Commandment. Consistent with us knowing the additional Eleventh Commandment in the new covenant of following Jesus' example. Paul says, Jesus is our model "Spirit" to follow. We are not to follow Judaism's human system of "law" that sabotaged the Ten Commandments to not remove sin in the resulting sons of Hagar, instead of God's will that we be sons of Sarah obeying His previous Ten Commandments as well as the new Eleventh Commandment.

Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments (entolé): ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)​

The new Eleventh Commandment above is found in the following passage, where to do "just as I have" is to "follow" His example by keeping a total of Eleven Commandments when Jesus adds one more to the previous Ten Commandments, saying above: "there is still one thing you haven't done".

As soon as Judas left the room, Jesus said, “The time has come for the Son of Man to enter into his glory, and God will be glorified because of him. And since God receives glory because of the Son, he will give his own glory to the Son, and he will do so at once. Dear children, I will be with you only a little longer. And as I told the Jewish leaders, you will search for me, but you can’t come where I am going. So now I am giving you a new commandment (entolé): Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples.” (John 13:31-35 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Again, no need to convince me. I don’t agree with you. I see what you are doing is absolutely wrong. Say what you want!

God bless!

 

[guevaraj]

I offered what I believe is truth. You are offering what you believe is truth.

Sister, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday, November 10, 2023 at 9:43 AM EST! You presume to know how to search the scriptures for truth when you do not, because you are willing to "contradict" the word of God guaranteed by the prophets in the original Abraham passage in Genesis where it is "belief" and not "faith" that is credited as righteouesness.

Look to God’s instructions and teachings! People who contradict his word are completely in the dark. (Isaiah 8:20 NLT)​

I have offered you scriptural evidence in the original Abraham passage in Genesis for the truth I found in the scriptures, but you have provided no evidence other than that you disagree, saying you know what Paul meant when Peter tells us Paul is hard to understand and people have twisted Paul's message against the rest of the scriptures for two millennia. This is what our prophetess said about searching the scriptures for truth in the following passage: the scriptures, "as a whole", is a perfect chain where one part links into and explains another.

I saw that God had especially guarded the Bible, yet when copies of it were few, learned men had in some instances changed the words, thinking that they were making it more plain, when in reality they were mystifying that which was plain, by causing it to lean to their established views, which were governed by tradition. But I saw that the Word of God, as a whole, is a perfect chain, one portion linking into and explaining another. True seekers for truth need not err; for not only is the Word of God plain and simple in declaring the way of life, but the Holy Spirit is given as a guide in understanding the way to life therein revealed. (Early Writings, pages 220-221)​

For example, Abraham's gift of initial forgiveness before doing the work of circumcision is explained by the link to "David" receiving this gift again after his sin with Bathsheba. You will not fully understand the truth by only looking at Abraham when the passage also points to David receiving this blessing again when he did not have to work for his forgiveness, because his having "believed" was credited as work completing his new "faith" without having done any regular works of "righteousness" at the temple.

When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. But people are credited righteousness (work), not because of their work, but because of their faith/belief (pistis) in God who forgives sinners. David also spoke of this when he described the happiness of those who are credited righteousness (work) without working for it: “Oh, what joy for those whose disobedience is forgiven, whose sins are put out of sight. Yes, what joy for those whose record the LORD has cleared of sin.” Now, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles? Well, we have been saying that Abraham was credited righteousness (work) by God because of his faith/belief (pistis). But how did this happen? Was he credited righteousness (work) only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised! (Romans 4:4-10 NLT fixed)​

I see what you are doing is absolutely wrong.

The fact is, you cannot tell me that I have made a mistake in my search for the truth in the scriptures because I have not made one. I can tell you specifically what word you have misunderstood! You have misunderstood Paul's use of the Greek word always translated as "faith" in our English Bibles when that word does not always mean "faith" but can mean "belief", as in the original Abraham passage Paul quoted included below.

And Abram believed (trusted) the LORD, and the LORD counted it to him as righteousness (work). (Genesis 15:6 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge