Does it really take "bravery" to be a Christian?

[LovebirdsFlying]

Some people like to draw a comparison between the way the press has received Tim Tebow versus the way the press has received Jason Collins. To wit:

Tebow: I am a Christian.
Press: Keep it to yourself.
Collins: I am gay.
Press: Tell me more, you big hero!

And the answer from the world is that it takes courage to admit homosexuality among a he-man society, but not to be a Christian among a nation in which the majority claim to be Christian.

I think the operative word is "claim." What takes bravery is actually acting like a Christian among a nation that claims it but doesn't want to live it. How often have any of us been in a situation where no thank you, we don't want to do that because it goes against our religious beliefs, and we're called all kinds of names in response?

I knew a woman whose son was a drug addict. When he cleaned up and started going to church (Seventh-day Adventist)--but it wasn't the same church (Catholic) that she was raised in--was she happy he'd stopped using drugs and was now praying, reading the Bible, and going to church? No. She still verbally abused him and called him names. It's just that the names she called him were different. If he didn't want to do something on a Saturday because it went against his newly adopted beliefs, then instead of calling him a liar and a thief as she did before, when he used to steal drug money out of her savings, now she called him a "sanctimonious holier-than-thou." She had never cared about her own religious beliefs before, but now she did. For example, it didn't used to offend her to see laundry hanging on the clothesline on a Sunday, until he started refusing to do chores on a Saturday. Now anything he didn't want to do on Saturday, she objected to him doing on a Sunday as well, because she'd suddenly decided it mattered. And if his going to church interfered with him being available for something she wanted him to do, again came the verbal abuse. This isn't just his word. I saw and heard it happening.

I have many members of my own family who will say they are Christian because they acknowledge that roughly 2,000 years ago, a man lived in Nazareth who was called Jesus/Yeshua, and preached love, and maybe died on a cross, but whether He was actually born of a virgin or actually rose from the dead are in dispute. They'll spend much more time reading and following what Richard Bach, Edgar Cayce, Deepak Chopra, Khalil Gibran, the Dalai Lama, or even Oprah Winfrey have to say than what that Man from Nazareth says. They won't go to church, and the only time they quote the Bible is when it agrees with something they already believe. Or when they can use it against me somehow. On the surface, their creed seems to be, "Do whatever feels good. There is no real right or wrong." For most of them, this includes substance abuse as well.

But, when asked on a survey, they will mark themselves as Christian, adding to the majority in the US who claim Christianity.

I tend to think, it may not take guts to SAY you're a Christian, but it does take guts to ACT like a Christian. Your thoughts?

 

[katautumn]

I think it depends on where you are, geographically speaking. I'd say it doesn't necessarily take bravery to be a Christian in America, but it definitely takes bravery to be one in North Korea. Just my .02.

 

[Nord Christian]

We live in a society where it's not cool to be Christian. And it really hasn't been for the last 45 years or so. The elite aren't Christian obviously, and
have been pushing an anti-christian agenda for years.

I flip through the channels on TV. It's all about materialism, lust, greed. How many love songs out there now, like there was 25 plus years ago? Very few if any. Lust, want, drunkeness, greed is what's bombarding kids these days from the idiot box.

Nobody likes rules. They want to live life their way. And if a theory like evolution eases their minds over what sins they commit, so be it. "Live life
to the fullest". "No regrets". YOLO (you only live once). How many times have I seen things with these sayings on them posted on Facebook? All the time.

Instead of seeing something like homosexuality as a sin, unbelievers will just
put a bandaid on it. We here in Ontario, have a Premier that's a lesbian. No, I'm not going to judge her. It's still sin though, which we Christians know we are sinners as well. Only we're not pretending that what we're doing is fine and acceptable. I would assume most people who have no faith, have no real moral compass. It's only law enforcement keeping them in check.

I'd say it does take guts to be a Christian these days. My parent's tell me not to preach to relatives.
They say they are believers, and I have a strong feeling my Dad is. They don't want me to make waves.
I know I'm living in a lost world, for the most part. All I can do I feel is just pray for the unbelievers who
are still alive.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

There is a difference between harassment and persecution, yes. Just because someone makes fun of me or calls me uncool because I want to live by my Christian beliefs doesn't mean they're persecuting me. Persecution is when I could get arrested or even killed for being a Christian. I know that in North America, some Christians do tend to call it being persecuted when all they are is insulted and socially rejected.

It's just that in my experience, sometimes it takes bravery to deal with that insult and rejection.

 

[Nord Christian]

There is a difference between harassment and persecution, yes. Just because someone makes fun of me or calls me uncool because I want to live by my Christian beliefs doesn't mean they're persecuting me. Persecution is when I could get arrested or even killed for being a Christian. I know that in North America, some Christians do tend to call it being persecuted when all they are is insulted and socially rejected.

It's just that in my experience, sometimes it takes bravery to deal with that insult and rejection.

It's sad today really, that some of us, including myself, feel the need to keep my faith to myself. A lot of people don't want to be preached to, or "Bible thumped". I tried to get the gospel through to my Uncle last year at a Christmas party. He politely listened, then told my Dad that he " thought I was gonna preach him to death" or something to that effect.

I'm getting the feeling that society in the western world, will just become so lost that more widespread persecution will be more prevalent. We have gay marriage. The legalization of weed just around the corner? TV shows, music videos, movies and video games that are ungodly as well. People are saturating their minds with this garbage, putting them on the course of destruction, especially if they're followers.

Bible prophecy tells us in Revelations that it's going to get worse, and not better. Do I know when the end times will be upon us? Of course not. Only God knows. There are signs to watch for though, and it looks like we may not be too far off.

 

[katautumn]

A lot of people don't want to be preached to, or "Bible thumped".

I think this is partially due to how so many Christians are well-intentioned, and eager to share the gospel, but don't really know how. Our pastor taught an excellent series on witnessing during our midweek Bible study. I think by the fiftieth time you're approached by someone with a Bible, you're a little gun-shy. I remember back when I was Pagan I was wearing a very discreet pentacle necklace. I was accosted by an elderly lady at the grocery store. I was on the potato chip aisle and she kept staring and squinting at me. She walked up, pointed sharply at my necklace and said, "you should be ashamed of yourself! Repent, devil worshiper!" While I'm sure her intentions were good, her delivery was extremely humiliating and off-putting.

I think if Christians in Western culture wish to be taken seriously again we should take a step back and examine the root cause of why lost people mock our beliefs. Is it truly because of satanic influence, or is it because we, as collective whole, have given them comedic fodder?

 

[Nord Christian]

I think this is partially due to how so many Christians are well-intentioned, and eager to share the gospel, but don't really know how. Our pastor taught an excellent series on witnessing during our midweek Bible study. I think by the fiftieth time you're approached by someone with a Bible, you're a little gun-shy. I remember back when I was Pagan I was wearing a very discreet pentacle necklace. I was accosted by an elderly lady at the grocery store. I was on the potato chip aisle and she kept staring and squinting at me. She walked up, pointed sharply at my necklace and said, "you should be ashamed of yourself! Repent, devil worshiper!" While I'm sure her intentions were good, her delivery was extremely humiliating and off-putting.

I think if Christians in Western culture wish to be taken seriously again we should take a step back and examine the root cause of why lost people mock our beliefs. Is it truly because of satanic influence, or is it because we, as collective whole, have given them comedic fodder?

Not too many years ago, I knew very little about Christianity. I didn't want Bible thumpers preaching to me either. I had thought that maybe all religions were cults, and that the Bible and the ten commandments were
just rules written by man to frighten people, to keep them in order. I don't think that way today, thankfully!

That's an interesting story about that lady who approached you. She should have been more subtle. I wouldn't do what she did, as I might get yelled at or even attacked.

I volunteer at the Salvation Army mission in my city. There was one guy in the soup line with a shirt that had a large pentagram with the goat baphomet in it. My jaw almost dropped in disbelief!

I truly believe there is definitely satanic influence involved. If someone actually knows the truth/ or wants to know the truth, God will show them the way. Ignorance, demonic and satanic influence and the media are large part to blame I feel for the countless lost, that hadn't listened to the knocks on their heart's by Lord Jesus.

 

[RDKirk]

There is a problem with thinking that "today" is any worse than any other epoch. Western Europe is practically identical to the Athens that Paul preached in. The US today is practically identical to the Corinth that Paul preached in. And they are identical in ways that would surprise most people.

There have been periods of high "religiosity" in Western Europe and the US that have "Jesus" painted on them, but have not been different in substance from similar periods of high religiosity experienced by pagan Rome and Egypt.

From 312 AD onward, people took a worldly structure of power and wealth and painted crosses on it, created "biblical" justifications for actions designed to increase power and wealth, and gave the responsibility for it all to Jesus.

I guess that's only naturally to be expected--of course Christians were tired (to say the least) of being crucified, beheaded, and thrown to lions. But that's a different thing from becoming part of the national wealth and power structure, because ultimately kings must do evil things in this fallen world to maintain their wealth and power.

To the extent that Christians have identified themselves with that wealth and power structure, Christians have also been identified with the evil things that kings do to maintain their wealth and power.

But we are not part of the wealth and power structures of worldly nations.

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood.... - 1 Peter 1

Aliens. Not to "the citizens of Pontus, et al..." but aliens. Temporary residents. Non-citizens. I remember back in the early 60s when PSAs every January would warn "aliens" to re-register with the Department of Immigration. When I was a kid I wondered if those "aliens" had secret antennae like Ray Walston on television.

The word translated "scattered" is the Greek diaspora, used only two other places in the New Testament:

Then said the Jews among themselves, "Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the diaspora among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?" -- John 7

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are diaspora abroad, greeting. -- James 1

Both of those earlier cases reference the Jews outside of Judea, many whose ancestors had been removed by force from Judea centuries earlier. They still thought of themselves, however, as Jews, as children of Israel, whose true home was in Judea, and as aliens even in the lands they were born in.

James carries that same meaning--I think very deliberately--when he uses the same word to Christians in a host of places that don't even exist today. Those places where Christians lived as "aliens" no longer exist... but the Church still exists. If they were only Pontians, Galatian, Cappadocians, we'd know nothing about them, they would be a lost civilization. Those places are long dead and gone.

If the Lord tarries long enough, the United States, Britain, Russia, China will be just as long dead, gone, and forgotten. If He doesn't tarry, they'll be long dead, gone, and forgotten even earlier.

But those people were Christians and thus they are our own ancestors, and we know them. They were "aliens" in those lands, but they are kinsmen to us, two thousand years into their future and five thousand miles around the planet. They will be our kinsmen a million years from now and a million galaxies away.

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy multitude, a nation for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; or you once were not a nation, but now you are the nation of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. -- 1 Peter 2

If you've ever been in the military or on a sports team, you've heard this before. This is the "team speech:"

"You used to be individuals caring only about yourselves, but now you are part of something bigger, now you are a team, and there is no 'I' in 'team!'" Hooah!

It's not ironic that Peter first calls them dispersed aliens, then tells them they are a nation--that's how Jews had always looked upon their own dispersion into the Gentile lands. Being dispersed did not make them any less a single people, a single nation of God.

Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul. Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation. -- 1 Peter 2

Here is one of the several places that Peter circumscribes the Church distinctly from the world, in this case as a clear example of difference from the world, a difference that will be slandered but will one day be acknowledged as right.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Thank you all for these responses. They have been very helpful. I hope they continue.

And thank you especially, RDKirk. That was inspiring. I needed it.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Thank you all for these responses. They have been very helpful. I hope they continue.

And thank you especially, RDKirk. That was inspiring. I needed it.

I think it hinges more on steadfastness (1 Corinthians 15.58) rather than on considerations of what the worlds thinks of as macho bravery.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

What I'm thinking of is the inflated numbers. To the world, it LOOKS like the vast majority of Western society is Christian, because the vast majority claims to be. Yet examine what they believe. In the case of my family, who if asked would definitely say they are Christian: A man named Jesus/Yeshua lived in Israel 2,000 years or so ago. He was a good moral teacher and went around telling people they should love each other. Maybe He died on a cross, or maybe that was a story somebody made up. He most likely was not born of a virgin, and He most likely did not physically come back from the dead. As for being "the Son of God," well, we're all God's children, aren't we? Jesus is not God in the flesh any more than we are all aspects of God, and He is not "the way, the truth, and the life," even though He says He is. After all, there are many ways to reach God. Jesus is only one of those ways. But hey, I don't deny His existence, so I'm a Christian--right?

The pastor of our church says there are two pillars of Christianity. One is the virgin birth, and the other is the physical resurrection. If you don't have those, he says, "I don't know what you have, but it isn't Christianity." But these people will call themselves Christian, and the world doesn't know the difference, so the world will say, "The majority of this society is Christian."

 

[Nord Christian]

What I'm thinking of is the inflated numbers. To the world, it LOOKS like the vast majority of Western society is Christian, because the vast majority claims to be. Yet examine what they believe. In the case of my family, who if asked would definitely say they are Christian: A man named Jesus/Yeshua lived in Israel 2,000 years or so ago. He was a good moral teacher and went around telling people they should love each other. Maybe He died on a cross, or maybe that was a story somebody made up. He most likely was not born of a virgin, and He most likely did not physically come back from the dead. As for being "the Son of God," well, we're all God's children, aren't we? Jesus is not God in the flesh any more than we are all aspects of God, and He is not "the way, the truth, and the life," even though He says He is. After all, there are many ways to reach God. Jesus is only one of those ways. But hey, I don't deny His existence, so I'm a Christian--right?

The pastor of our church says there are two pillars of Christianity. One is the virgin birth, and the other is the physical resurrection. If you don't have those, he says, "I don't know what you have, but it isn't Christianity." But these people will call themselves Christian, and the world doesn't know the difference, so the world will say, "The majority of this society is Christian."

I agree with your pastor. Some of your family members are not following the true gospel, or may be having faith failures? Truth is everyone needs to believe in the gospel in all that is said, or they're not saved. No and's, if's or but's when it comes to the truth.

I don't really know what most of my family believes. I know of a Cousin who's an atheist. Maybe a lot more are? Most of them don't go to church,but I don't either, but believe in the gospel, God, Lord Jesus, pray and read my Bible.

Either people believe the gospel is truth in its entirety, or they might as well not believe it at all. Just believing in God isn't good enough.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I think this is partially due to how so many Christians are well-intentioned, and eager to share the gospel, but don't really know how. Our pastor taught an excellent series on witnessing during our midweek Bible study. I think by the fiftieth time you're approached by someone with a Bible, you're a little gun-shy. I remember back when I was Pagan I was wearing a very discreet pentacle necklace. I was accosted by an elderly lady at the grocery store. I was on the potato chip aisle and she kept staring and squinting at me. She walked up, pointed sharply at my necklace and said, "you should be ashamed of yourself! Repent, devil worshiper!" While I'm sure her intentions were good, her delivery was extremely humiliating and off-putting.

I think if Christians in Western culture wish to be taken seriously again we should take a step back and examine the root cause of why lost people mock our beliefs. Is it truly because of satanic influence, or is it because we, as collective whole, have given them comedic fodder?

Yesterday in church, the pastor talked about how he was shopping for some household need, and the sales clerk asked him conversationally what he did for a living. When he answered, "preacher," the clerk jumped back a little. "But I don't bite," the pastor assured him.

The clerk then explained he was a pagan, to which the pastor replied, "Well, you're not biting me either, so I'm not worried about it." There was an invitation to discuss the matter further, but the clerk was not interested, so the pastor respectfully backed off. A little while later, the clerk told of some experiences he'd had with Christians avoiding or being rude to him, such as the "sweet" elderly woman who screamed in his face that he was going straight to hell. The pastor sympathized. He himself was once what he calls a "devout atheist."

"And this is an example of the prophets of Satan all around us," the pastor concluded. He didn't make it clear whether by "prophets of Satan," he meant the pagan sales clerk, or the Christians who were rude to him, but given that the context was false prophets and "trying the spirits to see whether they are from God," I suspect he meant the so-called Christians. By scaring that man away, they are not doing God's work.

 

[Jesusisgood]

I definitely agree Lovebirdsflying! it takes guts to BE a Christian. In my personally life right now I am being faced with similar attacks like you mentioned. I don't celebrate Halloween nor do I like anything "magical" but when I openly just tell people how I feel about those things I'm accused of being judgemental, and "holier-than-thou". I don't get it other than the enemy is behind it to stop me from living out my faith. I am surrounded by people who would claim to be Christian at work and church, but when it comes to informing them on the truth (of chourse gently) they get made and one girl actually said "f-this church" at a bible study because she didn't like that they were exposing false teachers.
Another thing also connected to people like that girl were that they go on missions trips and yet they aren't Christ-followers themselves. (not all mission trip goers people but lets be honest with how many teens and young adults love to brag about helping in Africa and china and yet won't repent of sin when it is brought to their attention or evangelize in their own communities?

 

[RDKirk]

I definitely agree Lovebirdsflying! it takes guts to BE a Christian. In my personally life right now I am being faced with similar attacks like you mentioned. I don't celebrate Halloween nor do I like anything "magical" but when I openly just tell people how I feel about those things I'm accused of being judgemental, and "holier-than-thou". I don't get it other than the enemy is behind it to stop me from living out my faith. I am surrounded by people who would claim to be Christian at work and church, but when it comes to informing them on the truth (of chourse gently) they get made and one girl actually said "f-this church" at a bible study because she didn't like that they were exposing false teachers.
Another thing also connected to people like that girl were that they go on missions trips and yet they aren't Christ-followers themselves. (not all mission trip goers people but lets be honest with how many teens and young adults love to brag about helping in Africa and china and yet won't repent of sin when it is brought to their attention or evangelize in their own communities?

It's interesting that an atheist can say he doesn't go to religious movies, and nobody has a problem with that, but let a Christian say "I don't go to certain movies" and even Christians will revile him for "legalism."

I would disagree with an earlier poster that this is something that started only 45 years ago. The only difference is that the issues have changed. There were plenty of opportunities for true Christians in the South to get themselves killed 50 years ago, such as the Freedom Riders in 1961.

 

[Jack Russell]

Some people like to draw a comparison between the way the press has received Tim Tebow versus the way the press has received Jason Collins. To wit:

Tebow: I am a Christian.
Press: Keep it to yourself.
Collins: I am gay.
Press: Tell me more, you big hero!

And the answer from the world is that it takes courage to admit homosexuality among a he-man society, but not to be a Christian among a nation in which the majority claim to be Christian.

I think the operative word is "claim." What takes bravery is actually acting like a Christian among a nation that claims it but doesn't want to live it. How often have any of us been in a situation where no thank you, we don't want to do that because it goes against our religious beliefs, and we're called all kinds of names in response?

I knew a woman whose son was a drug addict. When he cleaned up and started going to church (Seventh-day Adventist)--but it wasn't the same church (Catholic) that she was raised in--was she happy he'd stopped using drugs and was now praying, reading the Bible, and going to church? No. She still verbally abused him and called him names. It's just that the names she called him were different. If he didn't want to do something on a Saturday because it went against his newly adopted beliefs, then instead of calling him a liar and a thief as she did before, when he used to steal drug money out of her savings, now she called him a "sanctimonious holier-than-thou." She had never cared about her own religious beliefs before, but now she did. For example, it didn't used to offend her to see laundry hanging on the clothesline on a Sunday, until he started refusing to do chores on a Saturday. Now anything he didn't want to do on Saturday, she objected to him doing on a Sunday as well, because she'd suddenly decided it mattered. And if his going to church interfered with him being available for something she wanted him to do, again came the verbal abuse. This isn't just his word. I saw and heard it happening.

I have many members of my own family who will say they are Christian because they acknowledge that roughly 2,000 years ago, a man lived in Nazareth who was called Jesus/Yeshua, and preached love, and maybe died on a cross, but whether He was actually born of a virgin or actually rose from the dead are in dispute. They'll spend much more time reading and following what Richard Bach, Edgar Cayce, Deepak Chopra, Khalil Gibran, the Dalai Lama, or even Oprah Winfrey have to say than what that Man from Nazareth says. They won't go to church, and the only time they quote the Bible is when it agrees with something they already believe. Or when they can use it against me somehow. On the surface, their creed seems to be, "Do whatever feels good. There is no real right or wrong." For most of them, this includes substance abuse as well.

But, when asked on a survey, they will mark themselves as Christian, adding to the majority in the US who claim Christianity.

I tend to think, it may not take guts to SAY you're a Christian, but it does take guts to ACT like a Christian. Your thoughts?

What's great about the Tim Tebow story is not just that the media took exception to him because he's a devout Christian, but they hated him because he was a Christian VIRGIN!

"Tim Tebow Says He's Still a Virgin, Saving Himself for Marriage"

That was an actual news story! And the irony is like you said, the media praised Jason Collins' extremely dangerous and deadly simulated-sex life, but it attempts to ridicule Tim Tebow's Christian lifestyle of purity. Thankfully, there are enough Christians in America where there was significant pushback against the media and so we don't get too discouraged about this.

It's also ironic that Tebow was pushed out of the NFL, supposedly because he just wasn't good enough, but now look at how the NFL is suffering with its image problem. What's sad is that there are hundreds of godly men in the NFL, but you will never see them, because the media is not concerned with giving us good Christian role models, even though shows like Duck Dynasty and 19 Kids and Counting and their huge ratings have proven that Americans would rather watch healthy Christian families than dysfunctional non-Christian ones. So that should be encouraging.

For you personally, I say I'm sorry you've had to suffer what you have with your family. I also am the only Christian in my family and I've suffered a lot of persecution as a result. I'm only now starting to see that it's a blessing to suffer for Christ, and I'm only now starting to see how I can win people to Christ, not just by preaching the Gospel, but also by suffering for it. It has taken me way too long to learn this, though, and I'm just praying I can keep growing in the Lord and be able to take the heat. I admire Tim Tebow, the Robertson family, and the Duggar family for their God-given ability to endure all the persecution they've suffered just for being Bible-believing Christians. These guys are true Christians and I believe God is using them to encourage us all.

 

[Blue Wren]

-

 

[Jack Russell]

Acting like a Christian isn't making a show about it on national TV like Tebow did.

Okay, I'll bite.

So.......why are you judging Tim Tebow?

It's a little hypocritical to chastise bullies, and then there you are passive-aggressively bullying Tim Tebow. It's like you're saying he should shut up and keep his faith and lifestyle private, but gay athletes can say and do whatever they want. Seems a little Christianphobic, doesn't it? A little bit of a double standard there?

 

[Blue Wren]

-

 

[Jack Russell]

Chill out on the hyperbole. Stating his actions as part of an explanation for why people have criticized him isn't the same as judging or passive aggressively bullying him, and it's histrionic to claim that it is. Get a grip.

LOL

I'm sorry, I thought you were one of the many male pornography addicts that come in here to insult Christians.

But there is CLEARLY only pure Christian motives in your post, I'm sure. ;-)