Does God transcend time?

[XPres]

I've been wondering lately if--or to what extent-- God transcends time. Does He know exactly what is going to happen in the future? If so, does He actively control every event, or did He just create the universe and let it run (like winding a watch)?

I'm a fairly new Christian so not an expert by any means, but from what I've read in the Bible so far it sounds like God is more like a clockmaker who built a clock and set it in motion. The Gospels are pretty clear about the fact that anyone who decides to accept Christ will be saved; so, if people can consciously making that decision, that means that God gave them the ability to make choices that affect the future. And how would He do that if He remained in active control of all His creation?

This ties in with the original sin too; Adam and Eve chose to eat from the tree on their own accord, even though it was contrary to God's will, so didn't God have to give them the ability to do so in the first place? Surely if He transcended time completely and dictated every event it wouldn't be possible for humans to sin at all because everything that ever happened would have occurred as a direct result of God's will.

On the other hand, we can see that God does play an active role in the world (e.g. by answering prayers), so that brings the question of whether He is in full control, or if He just steps in when He needs to. To use an analogy, does God move the hands of the clock manually, or does He wind the clock and let it run, only adjusting the hands when needed?

 

[AJTruth]

YES!

Isaiah 46:10 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God doesn't live inside our observable universe?
How could the universe be created from within. Within means already there.

So, clearly, God the creator. Doesn't live within our observable universe. Scriptures make it clear, He does have the ability to operate inside it.

There was no TIME or MATTER when He gave the command "LIGHT BE".

The fact He exists in a dimension outside of time. Answers a much asked question.

Who created God? Only "within the confines of TIME" is a beginning or an end necessary.

 

[Philip_B]

Before existence God is

 

[Adstar]

I've been wondering lately if--or to what extent-- God transcends time. Does He know exactly what is going to happen in the future? If so, does He actively control every event, or did He just create the universe and let it run (like winding a watch)?

I'm a fairly new Christian so not an expert by any means, but from what I've read in the Bible so far it sounds like God is more like a clockmaker who built a clock and set it in motion. The Gospels are pretty clear about the fact that anyone who decides to accept Christ will be saved; so, if people can consciously making that decision, that means that God gave them the ability to make choices that affect the future. And how would He do that if He remained in active control of all His creation?

This ties in with the original sin too; Adam and Eve chose to eat from the tree on their own accord, even though it was contrary to God's will, so didn't God have to give them the ability to do so in the first place? Surely if He transcended time completely and dictated every event it wouldn't be possible for humans to sin at all because everything that ever happened would have occurred as a direct result of God's will.

On the other hand, we can see that God does play an active role in the world (e.g. by answering prayers), so that brings the question of whether He is in full control, or if He just steps in when He needs to. To use an analogy, does God move the hands of the clock manually, or does He wind the clock and let it run, only adjusting the hands when needed?

In the begging God created the heavens and the earth.. Part of the construction was Universe Time. God existed before the Universe and therefore is not limited by Universe space or time.. God dwells in Eternity outside of the confines of the universe and that means God exists in his own time or if you like God time..

So from His time he can see all our times at one time..

Therefore He knows the begging and the end and we see that through the scriptures.. In fact the reliability of His given prophecy of the future confirms that He knows all history from the start of the universe to the end of this universe..

We exist inside our universe time and we travel through it experiencing it as a traveling present remembering the past and looking forward to the future.. We experience out lives and make our own free willed responses to the revealed will of God.. God having already foreseen seen our responses can then from that foreknowledge predetermine our eternal destination from the very start of creation.. He can foreknow us and know our entire lives.. Thus He can have a place prepared for us in eternity before we are even born in this Universe..

So we exist in our time and make our decisions.. God does not force any decisions but knows our decisions beforehand.. And yes God injects himself into this universe from time to time influencing the flow of history as He did with the Jews and through the LORD Jesus Christ and today through His Holy Spirit.. Exerting influence in the form of conviction and moving those He foreknows will be accepting of His Way of Salvation.

 

[Adstar]

"""""""This ties in with the original sin too; Adam and Eve chose to eat from the tree on their own accord, even though it was contrary to God's will, so didn't God have to give them the ability to do so in the first place? Surely if He transcended time completely and dictated every event it wouldn't be possible for humans to sin at all because everything that ever happened would have occurred as a direct result of God's will."""""

If God wants to create beings with the free willed ability to accept His will He has to create them with the option of rejecting His will.... Otherwise we would just be like Zombies with no free will..

So God must greatly value the creation of truly free willed beings that can decide to accept His perfect will..

So God allowed Adam and Eve the option to reject his will and accept the deception of satan.. But even then God knew of the Way He would Redeem His creation through the Way of the LORD Jesus Christ and the Atonement for the forgiveness of sins..

 

[pdudgeon]

I've been wondering lately if--or to what extent-- God transcends time. Does He know exactly what is going to happen in the future? If so, does He actively control every event, or did He just create the universe and let it run (like winding a watch)?

I'm a fairly new Christian so not an expert by any means, but from what I've read in the Bible so far it sounds like God is more like a clockmaker who built a clock and set it in motion. The Gospels are pretty clear about the fact that anyone who decides to accept Christ will be saved; so, if people can consciously making that decision, that means that God gave them the ability to make choices that affect the future. And how would He do that if He remained in active control of all His creation?

This ties in with the original sin too; Adam and Eve chose to eat from the tree on their own accord, even though it was contrary to God's will, so didn't God have to give them the ability to do so in the first place? Surely if He transcended time completely and dictated every event it wouldn't be possible for humans to sin at all because everything that ever happened would have occurred as a direct result of God's will.

On the other hand, we can see that God does play an active role in the world (e.g. by answering prayers), so that brings the question of whether He is in full control, or if He just steps in when He needs to. To use an analogy, does God move the hands of the clock manually, or does He wind the clock and let it run, only adjusting the hands when needed?

It's not an 'either/or" situation; the answer is it's both.

Yes, God is in control.
Yes God sees every answer and every question.
And yes, people do make decisions--and God allows that.

So to answer your question, God allows people to make decisions, but He doesn't leave them
without help and guidance in making those decisions. And if they make the wrong ones He will up to a point be there to help them out of those bad decisions.

Case in point: Peter walking on the water.
To our minds it would be absolutely foolish for a person to throw a leg over the side of a boat and think that they could walk on water as easily as they could on land....except that in Peter's case he had the example of Jesus doing just that right before his eyes.

What Peter didn't have was faith in himself that he could do the same thing with Jesus' help.
And Jesus called him on it.
Fortunately for us Peter was spared by Jesus from going down with the fishes.
Instead, he learned his lesson and did more than he ever thought possible,
which ties right in with the scripture "With God, all things are possible"
and also serves to answer your question.

 

[-(iconoclast)-]

Hello.

God is not bound by the laws of the universe he created. This is similar to bricklayer building a house and bricking himself up inside of it. What would be the point?

God is greater than His creation.

 

[Meowzltov]

YES!

Isaiah 46:10 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God doesn't live inside our observable universe?
How could the universe be created from within. Within means already there.

So, clearly, God the creator. Doesn't live within our observable universe. Scriptures make it clear, He does have the ability to operate inside it.

There was no TIME or MATTER when He gave the command "LIGHT BE".

The fact He exists in a dimension outside of time. Answers a much asked question.

Who created God? Only "within the confines of TIME" is a beginning or an end necessary.

a
Space and Time are part of Creation, so yes God lives in ETERNITY, which is outside of time. We can't imagine what that is like, but somehow all times would be the present to God, an eternal now.

It did not take the existence of the sun for time to exist objectively as in the universe having a past, present, and future. Time began in Genesis 1:1, when God created the heavens and the earth -- all it took was for space to exist, for energy to exist, for one quark to exist in order for Time to exist because it is foundational to the universe.

 

[Meowzltov]

Yes, God is in control.
Yes God sees every answer and every question.
And yes, people do make decisions--and God allows that.

I agree. For example, I can see that an accident is going to happen before it happens, but I'm not making it happen.

 

[bling]

I've been wondering lately if--or to what extent-- God transcends time. Does He know exactly what is going to happen in the future? If so, does He actively control every event, or did He just create the universe and let it run (like winding a watch)?

I'm a fairly new Christian so not an expert by any means, but from what I've read in the Bible so far it sounds like God is more like a clockmaker who built a clock and set it in motion. The Gospels are pretty clear about the fact that anyone who decides to accept Christ will be saved; so, if people can consciously making that decision, that means that God gave them the ability to make choices that affect the future. And how would He do that if He remained in active control of all His creation?

This ties in with the original sin too; Adam and Eve chose to eat from the tree on their own accord, even though it was contrary to God's will, so didn't God have to give them the ability to do so in the first place? Surely if He transcended time completely and dictated every event it wouldn't be possible for humans to sin at all because everything that ever happened would have occurred as a direct result of God's will.

On the other hand, we can see that God does play an active role in the world (e.g. by answering prayers), so that brings the question of whether He is in full control, or if He just steps in when He needs to. To use an analogy, does God move the hands of the clock manually, or does He wind the clock and let it run, only adjusting the hands when needed?

This may be beyond our ability to understand.

For the last 100 years now time being relative has been experimentally shown and nothing seems to contradict that conclusion, but how “relative” time is we do not know.

God could be in his own time frame with a sequence of events for God, but when it comes to man, God is not limited by man’s time frame and is probably the creator of time for humans. God would be in all of man’s time, but also at the beginning end the end of man’s time.

Let us say in God’s time frame there is a time before He decides to create a human in human time (this may or may not exist, but it is a way we can think about it). The moment God “decides” to make a human (and this can be at the very beginning of human time) that same person is born lives a life, makes free will choices, dies and when to heaven or hell. The only “possible way” a human that goes to hell could keep from going to hell is for God never to decide to make that human, but if God decides never to make a particular humans, He also does not know what free will choices this nonexistent human made while living. God can know exactly all the possible choices that human could make, but does not know the choices a nonexistent free will agent made (it is just not knowable). The mature adult human makes the choices and God knows the choices that human made (or will make from the beginning of time since those are the choices the human “did” make in his time).

I work backwards starting with “man making a free will decision”, from there no one has a problem with God (or anyone else) knowing historically a free will choice made in the past. But there is a huge problem with knowing a decision that has not been made yet (it eliminates making another choice).

By keep the free will decision in the past but allowing that information about that free will decision to travel back in time to God of the past you provide a way for God in the past to know your past decisions for the God of the future.

 

[XPres]

Some of the replies so far have been kinda verbose so I'm not sure if I understand this yet, but here's what I can gather...

God does transcend time because He created the universe, and time within the universe is relative. And He created humans with the ability to consciously make decisions, based on their own free will, that affect the future. Since He knows the future already, He always knows what these decisions and their outcomes will be, but He doesn't directly interfere with them. He allows people to make their own decisions even though He knows what they will be.

So, going back to the salvation example I used in the OP, God already knows who will and who won't be saved. But individuals can still choose to accept Christ because they will always have free will. Only God knows what their decision will be, so as far as they are concerned the choice is theirs. Therefore God doesn't "choose" people to be saved, as those who believe in predestination say; rather, He leaves that to each individual even though He knows what each one will ultimately do.

And with Adam and Eve, the same thing would apply. God knew all along that they would eat from the tree, but He didn't interfere with their decision to do so because He created them with free will. And mankind chose to use that free will to go against God, necessitating Him sending Jesus to Earth to offer atonement to all people.

Am I on the right track?

 

[Philip_B]

If you removed time from the equation, you would still have God. The Anglican formula on the matter of Predestination which you are alluding to is worthy reflection.

ARTICLE XVII. OF PREDESTINATION AND ELECTION

PREDESTINATION to Life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby (before the foundations of the world were laid) he hath constantly decreed by his counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he hath chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation, as vessels made to honour. Wherefore, they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God be called according to God's purpose by his Spirit working in due season: they through Grace obey the calling: they be justified freely: they be made sons of God by adoption: they be made like the image of his only-begotten Son Jesus Christ: they walk religiously in good works, and at length, by God's mercy, they attain to everlasting felicity.

As the godly consideration of Predestination, and our Election in Christ, is full of sweet, pleasant, and unspeakable comfort to godly persons, and such as feel in themselves the working of the Spirit of Christ, mortifying the works of the flesh, and their earthly members, and drawing up their mind to high and heavenly things, as well because it doth greatly establish and confirm their faith of eternal Salvation to be enjoyed through Christ, as because it doth fervently kindle their love towards God: So, for curious and carnal persons, lacking the Spirit of Christ, to have continually before their eyes the sentence of God's Predestination, is a most dangerous downfall, whereby the Devil doth thrust them either into desperation, or into wretchlessness of most unclean living, no less perilous than desperation.

Furthermore, we must receive God's promises in such wise, as they be generally set forth to us in holy Scripture: and, in our doings, that Will of God is to be followed, which we have expressly declared unto us in the Word of God.​