does god save all??

SeventhValley · Apr 11, 2014

Q. D. Are the heathen, who never heard the gospel, condemned for not believing it?
A. No, the heathen are judged by the light they have, and are condemned for violating the law that is written in the hearts. (Rom. 1:20; 2:14)

Q. E. Will God punish those who have not heard the gospel as severely as those who hear and reject it?
A. No, those who have not heard the gospel will be punished for disregarding what they know, or might know, of the true God. (Rom. 2:13; 3:23)-http://www.reformedreader.org/ccc/cbt1892.htm

Bluelion · Apr 11, 2014

Edgar44 said:
It's not God that saves us, it's that we must save ourselves. If we don't change, then God cannot save us.

God cannot or will not do 'Our Faith' for us.

We do our own saving, based on our understanding of God's will for us.

If we understand God as someone who will punish us for doing wrong, then that will be the level of our relationship with God.

If we understand God as someone who unconditionally loves us, then this will be our level of relationship with God.

It all depends on us, and our level of understanding.

Before Jesus, God was viewed as someone who must be obeyed, or there will be punishment.

After Jesus, we should be on the level of obeying God because we want to obey Him, and not because we fear any punishment from Him.

How do we see God, As a General, or as a Parent?

children fear punishment from the parent. Your view is not biblical. Jesus said fear not man who can kill the body but fear God who can kill both body and soul in hell.

Truth is there is nothing we can do to save our self, or earn our salvation.

Bluelion · Apr 11, 2014

PrayerandPeace said:
they are saved.

Not the case in Sodom. Jesus said if he worked the miracles he did in some places in Israel Sodom would still be there, in other words they would have repent.

Bluelion · Apr 11, 2014

SeventhValley said:
Q. D. Are the heathen, who never heard the gospel, condemned for not believing it?
A. No, the heathen are judged by the light they have, and are condemned for violating the law that is written in the hearts. (Rom. 1:20; 2:14)

Q. E. Will God punish those who have not heard the gospel as severely as those who hear and reject it?
A. No, those who have not heard the gospel will be punished for disregarding what they know, or might know, of the true God. (Rom. 2:13; 3:23)-http://www.reformedreader.org/ccc/cbt1892.htm

You should look at sodom
A person is punished for sins, if the person did not know it was a sin is one thing. However God said the Romans new Gods law with out hearing it because their heart told them when they did wrong.

Your opinion does not make it biblical.

twin1954 · Apr 12, 2014

acdcfan19 said:
ok so this question is kinda stupid because I do believe god saves all. but I have a question about this. the bible says that in order to be saved you have to know that your a sinner and repent or something like that. well what happens if you don't know if your a sinner and you repent. does god still save you?? my nephew says that if you don't know that your a sinner and ask god to save you, then you aren't saved because you have to know that your a sinner. and also you have to truly mean it or else you won't be saved. so really, what happens if you don't know your a sinner or you think your saved but don't know if you are and you repent. does that mean god will save you??? also, what happens if you don't repent the right way??? my nephew also said that if you asked god to save you and you repented and still don't know if your saved, and didn't feel god save you, then you didn't do it right. he said you have to do it right or god won't save you.

I am amazed that no one has actually given you what you need. Instead of telling you about who Christ is and what He did they wanted to get their theological barbs in. I am especially ashamed of those who call themselves Calvinists here in this.

Your questions reveal a deep and disturbing problem with what passes as christianity in this generation: no biblical Gospel being preached.

Salvation , concerning which you seem to be interested, is not a thing that happens to you it is a Person. Salvation is the Lord Jesus Christ. All who are saved are united to Him by faith in His finished work as the Redeemer, Surety, substitute and Savior. The Lord Jesus Christ is God and Man. He who is God came down and took upon Himself humanity in order to completely and forever accomplish the everlasting salvation of His people. He lived a perfect life in their place and bore their sin in His own body on a cursed tree and put away their sin by the sacrifice of Himself. He lived for them and died for them. He was buried and rose from the grave on the third day because He had done all that was needed to bring them to God and for them to be accepted by Him.

If you desire to be saved you must know Him. If you want to know Him seek and you shall find.

I will continue to check in here to answer any questions you may have. Or you can PM me and I will get back to you.

Edgar44 · Apr 12, 2014

Bluelion said:
children fear punishment from the parent. Your view is not biblical. Jesus said fear not man who can kill the body but fear God who can kill both body and soul in hell.

Yes, children do fear their parent, but only because they 'are' children', they are too young to understand the depth of the love of the parent.

'There is no fear in love', if we fear God it is because our relationship with Him is still as a child.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Truth is there is nothing we can do to save our self, or earn our salvation.

Two points here..........

1. If you are correct, then what would be the point of repenting?

2. It is mankind who must have faith, us. We 'DO' have to do something, we have to 'HAVE FAITH'. We must become perfect.

If you continue to believe that ' there is nothing we can do to save our self.' then you make the words of Jesus mean as nothing.

Bluelion · Apr 12, 2014

Edgar44 said:
Yes, children do fear their parent, but only because they 'are' children', they are too young to understand the depth of the love of the parent.

'There is no fear in love', if we fear God it is because our relationship with Him is still as a child.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Two points here..........

1. If you are correct, then what would be the point of repenting?

2. It is mankind who must have faith, us. We 'DO' have to do something, we have to 'HAVE FAITH'. We must become perfect.

If you continue to believe that ' there is nothing we can do to save our self.' then you make the words of Jesus mean as nothing.

Yeahs Like I already quote Jesus who told us to have fear of God who could kill both body and soul in hell, and again in the New and Old testament it is writen fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

I take it you do not have children because you do not appear to understand the relationship. The child fears when they do something wrong sure they do not fear when you are loving on them giving them hugs. This is what is meant by there is not fear in love, no where in the Bible does it say not to fear God, in-fact, that is a big part of the problem with the world they do not fear God.

Jesus said no one comes to him unless that father draws them, fact is we can not even repent with out The Holy Spirit convicting us and changing our heart. what you preach is works gospel.

Jesus said in the True Vine sermon," apart from me you can do nothing" It is prideful to thing we are responsible for our salvation.

Faith is not a work. Man has little faith it is God who strengthens us and changes us and increase our faith. Its all God, His grace and Love.

another point we are always like children in God's eyes, and unless you become like these little children you will not enter heaven, believe Jesus said that.

FredVB · Apr 13, 2014

twin1954 said:
I am amazed that no one has actually given you what you need. Instead of telling you about who Christ is and what He did they wanted to get their theological barbs in. I am especially ashamed of those who call themselves Calvinists here in this.
Your questions reveal a deep and disturbing problem with what passes as christianity in this generation: no biblical Gospel being preached.
Salvation , concerning which you seem to be interested, is not a thing that happens to you it is a Person. Salvation is the Lord Jesus Christ. All who are saved are united to Him by faith in His finished work as the Redeemer, Surety, substitute and Savior. The Lord Jesus Christ is God and Man. He who is God came down and took upon Himself humanity in order to completely and forever accomplish the everlasting salvation of His people. He lived a perfect life in their place and bore their sin in His own body on a cursed tree and put away their sin by the sacrifice of Himself. He lived for them and died for them. He was buried and rose from the grave on the third day because He had done all that was needed to bring them to God and for them to be accepted by Him.
If you desire to be saved you must know Him. If you want to know Him seek and you shall find.
I will continue to check in here to answer any questions you may have. Or you can PM me and I will get back to you.

What about me with responding in the first few responses, just so much chopped liver? You have good responses here. I answered much in the same way, but without any sense of putdown. If the OP returns to this, we have both made ourselves available to be helpful, with providing what answers can be shared. More indeed should be helpful like that.

Edgar44 · Apr 13, 2014

Bluelion said:
Yeahs Like I already quote Jesus who told us to have fear of God who could kill both body and soul in hell, and again in the New and Old testament it is writen fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

"fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" Of course it is, where does wisdom begin? In the child.

I take it you do not have children because you do not appear to understand the relationship. The child fears when they do something wrong sure they do not fear when you are loving on them giving them hugs. This is what is meant by there is not fear in love, no where in the Bible does it say not to fear God, in-fact, that is a big part of the problem with the world they do not fear God.

Actually, 3 children from my former marriage, each of them with their own families, and two boys from my present wife.

Jesus said no one comes to him unless that father draws them, fact is we can not even repent with out The Holy Spirit convicting us and changing our heart. what you preach is works gospel.

We are the one's who change our own hearts, if it was not so, then why even bother with Jesus, God or religion? Why not just lounge around, waiting for God to hurry up and change this world of hell?

Jesus said in the True Vine sermon," apart from me you can do nothing" It is prideful to thing we are responsible for our salvation.

We cannot give ourselves salvation, but we are the one's that have to get to the place where we deserve that salvation.

Faith is not a work. Man has little faith it is God who strengthens us and changes us and increase our faith. Its all God, His grace and Love.

Did God create us as robots, with no responsibility then?
When Adam & Eve were given the choice to eat and die, or not eat and live, was this 'choice' a delusional' choice?

another point we are always like children in God's eyes, and unless you become like these little children you will not enter heaven, believe Jesus said that.

You make my point very well, you see yourself as the child, and that makes your relationship with God, a parent child relationship.

No parent, not even God wishes to have a relationship with their children for all time, parents will enjoy the parent child relationship will it lasts, but look forward to the day, they can enjoy a relationship with their fully mature children when adults.

This is the meaning of "In His image". or "Perfect as our heavenly Father is Perfect". I'm sorry if you don't get it, children rarely do.

Before Jesus, the law was an eye for an eye, Jesus came and mankind matured (we grew up a little), and the time for an eye for an eye was past. Now we should be of an age that we can understand the wisdom in 'turn the other cheek'.

Yet still, the creation waits for the revealing of the son's and daughters of God.

Bluelion · Apr 13, 2014

Edgar44 said:
"fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" Of course it is, where does wisdom begin? In the child.

Actually, 3 children from my former marriage, each of them with their own families, and two boys from my present wife.

We are the one's who change our own hearts, if it was not so, then why even bother with Jesus, God or religion? Why not just lounge around, waiting for God to hurry up and change this world of hell?

We cannot give ourselves salvation, but we are the one's that have to get to the place where we deserve that salvation.

Did God create us as robots, with no responsibility then?
When Adam & Eve were given the choice to eat and die, or not eat and live, was this 'choice' a delusional' choice?

You make my point very well, you see yourself as the child, and that makes your relationship with God, a parent child relationship.

No parent, not even God wishes to have a relationship with their children for all time, parents will enjoy the parent child relationship will it lasts, but look forward to the day, they can enjoy a relationship with their fully mature children when adults.

This is the meaning of "In His image". or "Perfect as our heavenly Father is Perfect". I'm sorry if you don't get it, children rarely do.

Before Jesus, the law was an eye for an eye, Jesus came and mankind matured (we grew up a little), and the time for an eye for an eye was past. Now we should be of an age that we can understand the wisdom in 'turn the other cheek'.

Yet still, the creation waits for the revealing of the son's and daughters of God.

oh i understand your views quite well, but what you don't understand is they are not Biblical.

Praying for you.

You need to study with The Holy Spirit.

It is pride to take credit for God's work. I struggle with pride my self, we all do. But those who exalt there self will be humbled and those who humble their self will be exalted. Also God works against the prideful. So be careful friend.

The Goal is complete dependence on God, it is a paradox which in dependence is true freedom. Of course we are not robots look at what the world is, but our choice is between good and evil, we choose God once and then we are locked, then we grow by choosing God over and over again. One day we will be incapable of sin, which means even if we wanted to we could not sin. That is what I want, I do not want to be tempted for eternity because this world is hell.

Jesus spoke of the goal, He said my will is only to do the Fathers will. We are to give up freewill and make our will to only serve God. Its not for everyone but that is the truth.

FredVB · Apr 13, 2014

Fred V B said:
If the OP returns to this, we have both made ourselves available to be helpful, with providing what answers can be shared.

Actually acdcfan seems to be no longer active in these forums, for now, anyway. I can only hope that what would have been really helpful to see for coming to Christ properly with seeing what the need is, to be right with Yahweh God, would have already been seen. Anybody can come to him in this. But always it is on his terms.

Edgar44 · Apr 13, 2014

Bluelion said:
oh i understand your views quite well, but what you don't understand is they are not Biblical.

Praying for you.

You need to study with The Holy Spirit..

Doesn't say 'in the Bible that Jesus washed His ears, but I'm quite sure He did on occasion.

Truth is truth, in the Bible or not in the Bible.

It is pride to take credit for God's work. I struggle with pride my self, we all do. But those who exalt there self will be humbled and those who humble their self will be exalted. Also God works against the prideful. So be careful friend.

Take credit for God's work??? Was it God's work that caused Adam & Eve to fall? Was it God's work that caused King Saul to retreat from God's interests?

God's work, was in creating us. Our work is what we do with what He gave us.

The Goal is complete dependence on God,

We were not created to stay as children! We (mankind), fell away from God, when will we grow up and take responsibility for our mistakes, and say to God, we are sorry for the world WE created, trust us God to remedy the situation, with your help and guidance. Not, its all your fault, you should fix us and the world, it's not OUR problem.

The goal is to reflect God on earth (in His image), it is not our 'goal' to stay as little children.

1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

it is a paradox which in dependence is true freedom. Of course we are not robots look at what the world is, but our choice is between good and evil, we choose God once and then we are locked, then we grow by choosing God over and over again. One day we will be incapable of sin, which means even if we wanted to we could not sin. .

Not true of King Saul, or King David. Not true of Adam or Eve, not true of Judas or of the Jewish faith when Jesus was being killed. And not true of the disciples, who left Jesus at His death. The truth is we choose God, then not God then God again. We just can't seem to be consistent.

Yes the day will come when mankind takes responsibility for our own actions, and we will never sin again. But not because we will be 'incapable' of sin, but because we will choose to never sin again. Jesus had the power to sin, but He choose not to sin. THAT is the power of God's love. Children are 'incapable' of understanding this level of love, because they are children, that is the nature of a child.

That is what I want, I do not want to be tempted for eternity because this world is hell.

That is what we all desire.

Jesus spoke of the goal, He said my will is only to do the Fathers will. We are to give up freewill and make our will to only serve God. Its not for everyone but that is the truth.

I remember once (really), when I said, I want to do want my father (physical father) wants me to do. I said this because I really loved and trusted that my fathers will for me, would be true, just and right. But I said it out of love for my father, not because I was giving up my freewill.

It is our freewill that prevents us from being Robots. God is not looking to spend an eternity with mindless 'yes men'.

Every parent wants their children to be different, with their own free will.

Bluelion · Apr 13, 2014

you said.
Doesn't say 'in the Bible that Jesus washed His ears, but I'm quite sure He did on occasion.

Truth is truth, in the Bible or not in the Bible.

1 we are to measure everyone that comes in the name of the Lord with the Bible, you can not speak of things that are not biblical and claim they are.

you said:

Take credit for God's work??? Was it God's work that caused Adam & Eve to fall? Was it God's work that caused King Saul to retreat from God's interests?

God's work, was in creating us. Our work is what we do with what He gave us.

Yes suggesting we have a part in keeping or earning our salvation is taking credit for God's work, Are part is in accepting the free gift that is all.

You said:

We were not created to stay as children! We (mankind), fell away from God, when will we grow up and take responsibility for our mistakes, and say to God, we are sorry for the world WE created, trust us God to remedy the situation, with your help and guidance. Not, its all your fault, you should fix us and the world, it's not OUR problem.

Ok so take responsibility and enjoy hell, because that is our punishment, Jesus paid our debt for us, He took our place those who are saved pay for nothing.

Do you see the problem yet with your thinking? I don't expect you to see, i just don't want other readers thinking this is the way.

you said:

The goal is to reflect God on earth (in His image), it is not our 'goal' to stay as little children.

Children are innocent, humble, the goal is to be God's children. Jesus said out of sucklings praise is perfected. The image of God is us being His children. Now there are those mature in faith and those young in faith, maybe this is what you are trying to say. But we remain as little children to God.

you said:

Yes the day will come when mankind takes responsibility for our own actions, and we will never sin again. But not because we will be 'incapable' of sin, but because we will choose to never sin again. Jesus had the power to sin, but He choose not to sin. THAT is the power of God's love. Children are 'incapable' of understanding this level of love, because they are children, that is the nature of a child.

The day will come for man it is called the tribulation, but God's children will never pay for their sins.

you said:

I remember once (really), when I said, I want to do want my father (physical father) wants me to do. I said this because I really loved and trusted that my fathers will for me, would be true, just and right. But I said it out of love for my father, not because I was giving up my freewill.

That was you mistake to put such trust in a man. The free will we have is to chose God or reject Him. tell me what other free will you think we have. If you think we will go back and forth between doing the Fathers will and not doing it in Heaven you are wrong. God's will is done.

You said:

It is our freewill that prevents us from being Robots. God is not looking to spend an eternity with mindless 'yes men'.

I got to question weather you have surrender to God at all with all this talk of free will and Independence. Seems to be a struggle in your life.

You think free will makes us be who we are. It doesn't Jesus will was only to do the Fathers. He gave up His free will laid it down and decided He would only do the Fathers will, yet He still is Jesus, but He truly reflects the Father, and that is the true image of God. Could he disobeyed on earth, sure he had to be as a man with the same choices, but he decided long ago. This takes mature faith to understand, That free will not all that great, I don't want the choice to do evil, because after all we only have free will with the presences of evil, so if evil is taken away in Heaven is there still free will? But that is getting in to theology.

I don't expect you to understand but pray about it.

98cwitr · Apr 13, 2014

acdcfan19 said:
ok so this question is kinda stupid because I do believe god saves all. but I have a question about this. the bible says that in order to be saved you have to know that your a sinner and repent or something like that. well what happens if you don't know if your a sinner and you repent. does god still save you?? my nephew says that if you don't know that your a sinner and ask god to save you, then you aren't saved because you have to know that your a sinner. and also you have to truly mean it or else you won't be saved. so really, what happens if you don't know your a sinner or you think your saved but don't know if you are and you repent. does that mean god will save you??? also, what happens if you don't repent the right way??? my nephew also said that if you asked god to save you and you repented and still don't know if your saved, and didn't feel god save you, then you didn't do it right. he said you have to do it right or god won't save you.

Do what right?

Salvation isn't about "Saying a prayer and letting God into your heart," Salvation is about a transformation of spirit and rebirth (John 3).

Bluelion · Apr 13, 2014

98cwitr said:
Do what right?

Salvation isn't about "Saying a prayer and letting God into your heart," Salvation is about a transformation of spirit and rebirth (John 3).

well that the first step is letting God in to your heart to be fair.

98cwitr · Apr 13, 2014

Bluelion said:
well that the first step is letting God in to your heart to be fair.

I dont think that's the case at all...nor do I think there are any steps or a "checklist." Im not of the understanding or mindset that we let anything into our heart unless our heart is designed/made/formed to receive it

Psalm 33:15
he who forms the hearts of all, who considers everything they do

We have many many examples in the Bible where God replaces a man's heart, or even hardens it.

Answer me this: Why would God make someone He knows will never receive Him?

btw...I wonder if this is a troll thread :/

Bluelion · Apr 13, 2014

98cwitr said:
I dont think that's the case at all...nor do I think there are any steps or a "checklist." Im not of the understanding or mindset that we let anything into our heart unless our heart is designed/made/formed to receive it

Psalm 33:15
he who forms the hearts of all, who considers everything they do

We have many many examples in the Bible where God replaces a man's heart, or even hardens it.

Answer me this: Why would God make someone He knows will never receive Him?

btw...I wonder if this is a troll thread :/

Well God believes in steps. He said for every one step you take to me I will take two toward you.

I have a thought that these people who do not come to God never came from Him, but maybe came from satans line. but i can not back that up in the Biblical sense. Now satan was necessary because with out evil there is no choice and God did not want people following Him by default, but He wanted their love and for them to follow him out of love.

Evil as disgusting as it is gives a choice or free will, this what i was trying to explain to the other poster. If there is only good there is no choice no free will.

Edgar44 · Apr 14, 2014

Bluelion said:
Well God believes in steps. He said for every one step you take to me I will take two toward you.
QUOTE]

Few points here..........

1. God takes two steps towards us, 'IF' we take one towards Him.

That 'if', is a big word. Means we need to do something. We need to take that step!

I have a thought that these people who do not come to God never came from Him, but maybe came from satans line. but i can not back that up in the Biblical sense.

Click to expand...

2. All mankind are descended from that same first couple. I think that's Biblical.

Now satan was necessary because with out evil there is no choice and God did not want people following Him by default, but He wanted their love and for them to follow him out of love.

Click to expand...

3. Absolutely NOT Biblical. God said to Adam, Do NOT eat the fruit.

Your saying that 'HAD' Adam obeyed God, then evil would not have come into our lineage, thereby messing up Gods plan??

God said don't eat the fruit, why, as a little prank to play??

Mmmmmm, what will I choose, a holiday to Florida or a cruise to Greece?

Oh wait, didn't someone say, we need evil to make choices!!!

Evil as disgusting as it is gives a choice or free will, this what i was trying to explain to the other poster. If there is only good there is no choice no free will.

Click to expand...

4. Evil is disgusting because it is outside of God's creation.

Bluelion · Apr 14, 2014

Edgar44 said:
Bluelion said:

Well God believes in steps. He said for every one step you take to me I will take two toward you.
QUOTE]

Few points here..........

1. God takes two steps towards us, 'IF' we take one towards Him.

That 'if', is a big word. Means we need to do something. We need to take that step!

2. All mankind are descended from that same first couple. I think that's Biblical.

3. Absolutely NOT Biblical. God said to Adam, Do NOT eat the fruit.

Your saying that 'HAD' Adam obeyed God, then evil would not have come into our lineage, thereby messing up Gods plan??

God said don't eat the fruit, why, as a little prank to play??

Mmmmmm, what will I choose, a holiday to Florida or a cruise to Greece?

Oh wait, didn't someone say, we need evil to make choices!!!

4. Evil is disgusting because it is outside of God's creation.

Click to expand...

Yeah just wrote a research paper on evil last week.

What was the fruit Adam and Eve ate, from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, there would be no tree if no evil it would only be the tree of good, so there for man could have ate, the command would have never came not to.
eat.

This is meat and you have trouble with milk, stick to milk for a while your running to far ahead.

Edgar44 · Apr 14, 2014

Bluelion said:
Edgar44 said:

What was the fruit Adam and Eve ate, from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, there would be no tree if no evil it would only be the tree of good, so there for man could have ate, the command would have never came not to eat.

This is meat and you have trouble with milk, stick to milk for a while your running to far ahead.

Click to expand...

The Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, was a symbol of the choice that mankind could take. If they ate from the tree, their choice would lead to an evil world.

If they obeyed God, their choice would have led to a good world.

Just as the Tree of life was a symbol of Adam if he attained perfection.

Click to expand...

does god save all??

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