Does God hate the reprobate?

[Elect]

Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Psa 11:6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

Mal 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Psa 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Psa 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

The Love of God is found in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
________________

So, does God hate the reprobate?

 

[cygnusx1]

Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Psa 11:6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

Mal 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Psa 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Psa 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

The Love of God is found in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
________________

So, does God hate the reprobate?

yes!

but don't assume that God cannot Love and Hate the same person for different reasons ........

why is God good to the reprobate ?

Because God loves the reprobate (not salvivically) in a general sense.

why should we "love our enemies" ?

because we have an example in heaven.

 

[cygnusx1]

"I am troubled by the tendency of some-often young people newly infatuated with Reformed doctrine-who insist that God cannot possibly love those who never repent and believe. I encounter that view, it seems, with increasing frequency.



The argument inevitably goes like this: Psalm 7:11 tells us "God is angry with the wicked every day." It seems reasonable to assume that if God loved everyone, He would have chosen everyone unto salvation. Therefore, God does not love the non-elect. Those who hold this view often go to great lengths to argue that John 3:16 cannot really mean God loves the whole world.



Perhaps the best-known argument for this view is found the unabridged edition of an otherwise excellent book, The Sovereignty of God, by A. W. Pink. Pink wrote, "God loves whom He chooses. He does not love everybody." [1] He further argued that the word world in John 3:16 ("For God so loved the world…") "refers to the world of believers (God's elect), in contradistinction from 'the world of the ungodly.'"[2]



Pink was attempting to make the crucial point that God is sovereign in the exercise of His love. The gist of his argument is certainly valid: It is folly to think that God loves all alike, or that He is compelled by some rule of fairness to love everyone equally. Scripture teaches us that God loves because He chooses to love (Deuteronomy 7:6-7), because He is loving (God is love, 1 John 4:8), not because He is under some obligation to love everyone the same.



Nothing but God's own sovereign good pleasure compels Him to love sinners. Nothing but His own sovereign will governs His love. That has to be true, since there is certainly nothing in any sinner worthy of even the smallest degree of divine love.



Unfortunately, Pink took the corollary too far. The fact that some sinners are not elected to salvation is no proof that God's attitude toward them is utterly devoid of sincere love. We know from Scripture that God is compassionate, kind, generous, and good even to the most stubborn sinners. Who can deny that those mercies flow out of God's boundless love? It is evident that they are showered even on unrepentant sinners.



We must understand that it is God's very nature to love. The reason our Lord commanded us to love our enemies is "in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous" (Matthew 5:45). Jesus clearly characterized His Father as One who loves even those who purposefully set themselves at enmity against Him.



At this point, however, an important distinction must be made: God loves believers with a particular love. God's love for the elect is an infinite, eternal, saving love. We know from Scripture that this great love was the very cause of our election (Ephesians 2:4). Such love clearly is not directed toward all of mankind indiscriminately, but is bestowed uniquely and individually on those whom God chose in eternity past.

But from that, it does not follow that God's attitude toward those He did not elect must be unmitigated hatred. Surely His pleading with the lost, His offers of mercy to the reprobate, and the call of the gospel to all who hear are all sincere expressions of the heart of a loving God. Remember, He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but tenderly calls sinners to turn from their evil ways and live."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1455143/posts

 

[Elect]

yes!

but don't assume that God cannot Love and Hate the same person for different reasons ........

why is God good to the reprobate ?

Because God loves the reprobate (not salvivically) in a general sense.

why should we "love our enemies" ?

because we have an example in heaven.

I am curious to see what kinds of response I will get. From love less to God hates and can't wait to destroy the wicked. In Romans 9 where God said that He loved Jacob but He hated Esau is used in the light of God's purpose and election. to define hate, one has to look at the word in the context that it is given.

 

[cygnusx1]

I am curious to see what kinds of response I will get. From love less to God hates and can't wait to destroy the wicked. In Romans 9 where God said that He loved Jacob but He hated Esau is used in the light of God's purpose and election. to define hate, one has to look at the word in the context that it is given.

absolutely 'Elect' , and in the context of Romans 9 it means prefered Jacob over and against Esau , the same as when Jesus spoke about those who love Him must "hate" their family ...

also , Romans 9 does speak of God's Longsuffering over the reprobate , which fits with "God takes no pleasure in the death of the Wicked" Ezekiel

 

[Elect]

absolutely 'Elect' , and in the context of Romans 9 it means prefered Jacob over and against Esau , the same as when Jesus spoke about those who love Him must "hate" their family ...

also , Romans 9 does speak of God's Longsuffering over the reprobate , which fits with "God takes no pleasure in the death of the Wicked" Ezekiel

Amen! cygnusx1

We cannot define hate as how a sinful man would hate, because we are not talking about a sinful man.

 

[Scholar in training]

I am curious to see what kinds of response I will get. From love less to God hates and can't wait to destroy the wicked.

Ezekiel 18 lays out the concept that God does not enjoy the death of anyone. How can you say that he "can't wait to destroy the wicked"?

 

[Elect]

Ezekiel 18 lays out the concept that God does not enjoy the death of anyone. How can you say that he "can't wait to destroy the wicked"?

I did not say that it was my opinion or belief.

What gave me this idea to start this thread was another message board.

You need to go back and reread all that I have posted in this thread.

 

[cygnusx1]

I think what needs to be kept in mind is that God does hate (otherwise hell would never exist) so although we have to be very careful when handling this subject , the Bible does indeed show a side to God that is indicative of TRUE Hatred ........... of course , it should be kept in mind that hate and Love are not always mutually exclusive .......



Leviticus 20:23 - And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Leviticus 26:30 - And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

Deuteronomy 32:19 - And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

Psalm 5:5 - The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 5:6 - Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalm 10:3 - For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.

Psalm 11:5 - The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Psalm 53:5 - There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.

Psalm 73:20 - As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.

Psalm 78:59 - When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:

Psalm 106:40 - Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.

Proverbs 6:16-19 - These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 22:14 - The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein.

Lamentations 2:6 - And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.

Hosea 9:15 - All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

Zechariah 11:8 - Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.

Malachi 1:3 - And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Romans 9:13 - As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

 

[Elect]

I think what needs to be kept in mind is that God does hate (otherwise hell would never exist) so although we have to be very careful when handling this subject , the Bible does indeed show a side to God that is indicative of TRUE Hatred ........... of course , it should be kept in mind that hate and Love are not always mutually exclusive .......



Leviticus 20:23 - And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Leviticus 26:30 - And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

Deuteronomy 32:19 - And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

Psalm 5:5 - The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 5:6 - Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalm 10:3 - For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.

Psalm 11:5 - The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Psalm 53:5 - There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.

Psalm 73:20 - As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.

Psalm 78:59 - When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:

Psalm 106:40 - Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.

Proverbs 6:16-19 - These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 22:14 - The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein.

Lamentations 2:6 - And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.

Hosea 9:15 - All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

Zechariah 11:8 - Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.

Malachi 1:3 - And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Romans 9:13 - As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Hmmm...on the hatred of God, I am still working this one out.

 

[Rick Otto]

God isn't blinded by rage, eh?
I reckon His "taking no pleasure" in the destruction of the wicked isn't exactly DISpleasure either.
This is the mysterious part of Christianity for me.
Trying to imagine how God thinks & feels.
Fascinating!

 

[cygnusx1]

Hmmm...on the hatred of God, I am still working this one out.

well . I have a really close Christian friend , we have spent years on this subject , I favour a more moderate view that God can Hate and Love the same person at the same time for very different reasons , he favours the view that God only loves the Elect ...

so I am not new to this subject by any means.

Consider what your feelings would be if you had a wife (or husband if you are a women) and you found out that she had been and slept with another man .........

would you not have VERY mixed feelings about her ?

that is why I think Love and hate are NOT always mutually exclusive.

 

[Jon_]

Ezekiel 18 lays out the concept that God does not enjoy the death of anyone. How can you say that he "can't wait to destroy the wicked"?

No, it does not. Ezekiel 18 lays out the concept that God does not enjoy the death of the elect (Israel). Ezekiel 18 is a proof text for Perseverance of the Saints, wherein God shows the path that he makes the righteous man walk, so that he should not die in wickedness, for in this the Lord has no pleasure.

The hatred of the Lord is simply his righteous anger, his wrath, which will be released upon the wicked in due time. Hate these days has higher negative connotations than Biblical hate. Hate today means pretty much to abhor without reason. God does not abhor anyone for no reason. God is entirely justified in his wrath against the wicked. They hate him! In turn, he hates them, and has prepared an eternity of punishment for their wicked rebellion against the Most High.

And yet, God so loved his chosen ones that he sent his only begotten Son to be the atoning sacrifice for their evil deeds.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Scholar in training]

No, it does not. Ezekiel 18 lays out the concept that God does not enjoy the death of the elect (Israel).

If you're going to be consistant in that interpretation (that the words "all" or "anyone" mean "only certain people") then you should interpret Romans 5:12-13 differently. If "all" in Christ can mean some, then why does the "all" in Adam mean every person on earth?

 

[Jon_]

If you're going to be consistant in that interpretation (that the words "all" or "anyone" mean "only certain people") then you should interpret Romans 5:12-13 differently. If "all" in Christ can mean some, then why does the "all" in Adam mean every person on earth?

First of all, you're talking about two different languages: Hebrew and Greek. That you fail to notice this basic fact shows that you are not pursuing proper exegesis of the passages.

Second of all, I never once contended with the use of all. The question is all of whom? The context clearly points to Israel, not Israel and the Gentiles.

(Ezek. 18:31, 32 AV) Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32) For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
​

Notice the last clause of v. 31. The Lord says, "O house of Israel." Then is says in v. 32, "I have not pleasure in the death of him that dieth . . . wherehose turn yourselves and live ye." Yourselves and ye quite clearly point back to "O house of Israel," which clearly provides the context for the statement that God does not pleasure in him who dies.

Thirdly, no where in this passage is the world "all" even used. You are simply reading a translation into the text, rather than correctly intepreting for what is says.

This is the same error that people use when they cite 2 Pet. 3:9 as saying God desires all men everywhere universally to repent. It does not say that at all. The context clearly shows that God desires all beloved (believers, elect) to come to repentance.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Jon_]

"I am troubled by the tendency of some-often young people newly infatuated with Reformed doctrine-who insist that God cannot possibly love those who never repent and believe. I encounter that view, it seems, with increasing frequency.

The argument inevitably goes like this: Psalm 7:11 tells us "God is angry with the wicked every day." It seems reasonable to assume that if God loved everyone, He would have chosen everyone unto salvation. Therefore, God does not love the non-elect. Those who hold this view often go to great lengths to argue that John 3:16 cannot really mean God loves the whole world.

Perhaps the best-known argument for this view is found the unabridged edition of an otherwise excellent book, The Sovereignty of God, by A. W. Pink. Pink wrote, "God loves whom He chooses. He does not love everybody." [1] He further argued that the word world in John 3:16 ("For God so loved the world...") "refers to the world of believers (God's elect), in contradistinction from 'the world of the ungodly.'"[2]

Pink was attempting to make the crucial point that God is sovereign in the exercise of His love. The gist of his argument is certainly valid: It is folly to think that God loves all alike, or that He is compelled by some rule of fairness to love everyone equally. Scripture teaches us that God loves because He chooses to love (Deuteronomy 7:6-7), because He is loving (God is love, 1 John 4:8), not because He is under some obligation to love everyone the same.

Nothing but God's own sovereign good pleasure compels Him to love sinners. Nothing but His own sovereign will governs His love. That has to be true, since there is certainly nothing in any sinner worthy of even the smallest degree of divine love.

Unfortunately, Pink took the corollary too far. The fact that some sinners are not elected to salvation is no proof that God's attitude toward them is utterly devoid of sincere love. We know from Scripture that God is compassionate, kind, generous, and good even to the most stubborn sinners. Who can deny that those mercies flow out of God's boundless love? It is evident that they are showered even on unrepentant sinners.

We must understand that it is God's very nature to love. The reason our Lord commanded us to love our enemies is "in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous" (Matthew 5:45). Jesus clearly characterized His Father as One who loves even those who purposefully set themselves at enmity against Him.

At this point, however, an important distinction must be made: God loves believers with a particular love. God's love for the elect is an infinite, eternal, saving love. We know from Scripture that this great love was the very cause of our election (Ephesians 2:4). Such love clearly is not directed toward all of mankind indiscriminately, but is bestowed uniquely and individually on those whom God chose in eternity past.

But from that, it does not follow that God's attitude toward those He did not elect must be unmitigated hatred.

I agree with all of this and couldn't have said it better myself.

Surely His pleading with the lost, His offers of mercy to the reprobate, and the call of the gospel to all who hear are all sincere expressions of the heart of a loving God. Remember, He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but tenderly calls sinners to turn from their evil ways and live."

I take issue with this, however.

The offer of the Gospel is limited to God's elect, just as Christ's atoning sacrifice is limited to the elect. The Gospel falls on deaf ears for those who proclaim their own self-righteousness. Moreover, the message is not intended for them. The Gospel is extended to all sinners, most importantly, those who acknowledge themselves as sinners. Unless one believes and accepts that he is a sinner, he can never know Christ. This is conditional to accepting the Gospel (without making election conditional, mind you). God does not offer mercy to the reprobate. He loves them with a lovingkindness that spares them his judgment for a time, but they shall eternally taste his wrath.

Apart from the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, we will never acknowledge ourselves as sinful before God. Without the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, the Gospel message means nothing to us and we will have none of it. Indeed, without the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, the Gospel would not be a genuine offer. If God were to extend the offer of salvation knowing that no one would accept its terms that would be not be a genuine offering of salvation. The Gospel is not offered to corpses. It is quite too late for a corpse to accept an offer of life. Instead, we must first be reborn. Therefore, the Gospel message is intended solely for the regenerate. And we know that only the elect will be regenerated.

And it is accurate to say that God takes pleasure in the death of the wicked (Prov. 16:4, Rev. 16:9). God does all that he pleases, including the destruction of the reprobate. It is a dire error to say that God finds displeasure in his own sovereign decree (that the wicked should die). Unfortunately, it seems that this is an increasing viewpoint among the Reformed, even being sung in the hallowed halls of Westminster Theological Seminary, for which I am very saddened.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[cygnusx1]

The offer of The Gospel is NOT limited to the Elect!
The duty of all men is to believe on God's Word and to obey it ...... Repentance is preached to the reprobate as well as the Elect.

''In like manner, we must turn from the vain reasonings (as in the above Articles of Faith) of the hyper-Calvinist, and while holding fast to the total depravity and the spiritual inability of the natural man, we must also believe in his moral responsibility and accountability to God. It is the bounden duty of God's servants to tell the unregenerate that the reason why they cannot repent evangelically is because their hearts are so wedded to their lusts; that the reason why they cannot come to Christ is because their sins have fettered and chained them; that the reason why they hate the Light is because they love the darkness. But so far from this excusing them, it only adds to their guilt; that so far from rendering them objects of pity it exposes them as doubly deserving of damnation. It is the preacher's business to show wherein spiritual inability consists: not in the lack of soul faculties, but in the absence of any love for Him who is infinitely lovely. Far be it from us to extenuate the wicked unbelief of the unregenerate!

The compilers of the above Articles of Faith were very largely influenced by a piece written by William Huntington in 1791, "Excommunication: and the Duty of all men to believe weighed in the balance." We have space to quote only one paragraph: "When Peter said, 'Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out' (Acts 3:19), He that is exalted to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins, sent His Spirit and Grace with the Word to work repentance and conversion in His own elect. And though they spoke the Word, promiscuously to all, yet He only spake it to His own. It was sent with the power of the Spirit. It never was sent with the Spirit of Faith to any but His own: 'When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the Word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed' (Acts 13:48). This is the life-giving commandment of the everlasting God, in the mouth of Zion's King. But what effect has it, or what power attends it, from the mouth of Mr. Ryland or the mouth of Mr. Fuller, when they make it the rule of a dead man's duty? Just as much as the adjuration of the sons of Sceva the Jew, when they abused the name of the Lord Jesus in commanding the spirit, who left the man and mastered them; and so these labour for the unconverted till they get into the gall of bitterness themselves. . . . Ye might just as well go to the gates of the grave and tell the sleeping dust it is their duty to come forth as Lazarus did. Mr. Ryland may just as well do the one as the other."

What a confused jumble is that! Confounding the Word of Power (Heb. 1:3) on the lips of Christ, with the Word of Reconciliation (2 Cor. 5:18, 19) in the mouths of His servants. What the Lord does, is none of our business. The commission He has given His servants is to preach the Gospel to every creature, and they certainly have not fully obeyed until they bid their hearers "Repent ye, and believe the Gospel" (Mark 1:15). Whom God quickens, is His own affair; ours is to faithfully warn the unsaved, to show wherein their sins consists (enmity against God), to bid them to throw down the weapons of their warfare against Him, to call upon them to repent (Acts 17:30), to proclaim the One who receives all who come to Him in faith. In allowing that Peter "spoke the Word promiscuously to all" Mr. Huntington pulled down what he laboured so hard to build up.

To affirm that the ministry of the Apostles (recorded in the Acts) furnishes no precedent for God's servants today, is as foolish, as "inconsistent," and unwarrantable, as it would be to say that Acts 6 supplies no present rule for deacons to be governed by! The physical condition of those in the cemetery is vastly different from the moral state of the unregenerate still upon the earth. The former cannot sin, cannot reject Christ; the latter can and do. The former cannot read their Bibles or call upon God for mercy; the latter should! It is because the natural man possesses the same faculties of soul as does the regenerate that he is an accountable creature, responsible to use them for God instead of against Him''.—A.W.P.

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/dutyfth.htm

 

[cygnusx1]

Is God's grief over reprobates (not stoic indifference) not proof of Love at work!

 

[Elect]

cygnusx1,

This question is directed to you, however anyone can answer this question. It was from another message board that gave me this idea to start this thread. I have not posted on that message board and I don't think I will. The biggest problem that I have with that message board is not their doctrine, but their attitude. Yes, I'm talking about Hyper-Calvinism. No, I'm not converting to Hyper, so please don't read anything into this question. I do not know how I would answer this question, if it were asked of me. Here is the question.

How can the gospel be sincerely offered to a reprobate that God knows will not repent and believe and that Jesus has not secured the salvation for?

 

[cygnusx1]

cygnusx1,

This question is directed to you, however anyone can answer this question. It was from another message board that gave me this idea to start this thread. I have not posted on that message board and I don't think I will. The biggest problem that I have with that message board is not their doctrine, but their attitude. Yes, I'm talking about Hyper-Calvinism. No, I'm not converting to Hyper, so please don't read anything into this question. I do not know how I would answer this question, if it were asked of me. Here is the question.

How can the gospel be sincerely offered to a reprobate that God knows will not repent and believe and that Jesus has not secured the salvation for?

Because God's will is varied , as is evident from God commanding things He has not decreed , and in decreeing things He has not commanded , and in desiring things that are often paradoxical ..........

I join with Calvin on this one ........

Calvin was well aware of this question and he did not tone down the mystery with which it confronts us. He is constantly refuting, by appeal to Scripture, the objections which unbelief registers against this doctrine. Much of the argumentation in the last three chapters of Book I of the Institutes is concerned with it. It is of interest that the last work in which Calvin was engaged before his work was arrested by the hand of death was his exposition of the prophecy of Ezekiel. His work ended with Ezekiel 20:44. He did not even complete his exposition of the chapter. At Ezekiel 18:23, in dealing with the discrepancy between God’s will to the salvation of all and the election of God by which he predestinates only a fixed number to salvation, he says: “If any one again objects — this is making God act with duplicity, the answer is ready, that God always wishes the same thing, though by different ways, and in a manner inscrutable to us. Although, therefore, God’s will is simple, yet great variety is involved in it, as far as our senses are concerned. Besides, it is not surprising that our eyes should be blinded by intense light, so that we cannot certainly judge how God wishes all to be saved, and yet has devoted all the reprobate to eternal destruction, and wishes them to perish. While we look now through a glass darkly, we should be content with the measure of our own intelligence.”

http://www.the-highway.com/calvin-sovereignty_Murray.html