Does God exist without religion?

[Adjac]

what's the point of religion and does God need it to exist? do we need it in order to believe in God?

 

[Aussie Pete]

what's the point of religion and does God need it to exist?

Religion is man's idea. God is not religious. Neither do we need to be.

 

[com7fy8]

Religion can be different things. What do you mean, by religion?

 

[Adjac]

Religion can be different things. What do you mean, by religion?

well the argument is that that religion (where we get our moral standard from etc.) isn't valid because it's man made

 

[com7fy8]

what's the point of religion and does God need it to exist?

There is religion which is human, and God does not need it.

But we have James 1:27 >

"Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)

So, there is religion which God wants. But can He exist without it? Well, I don't think He would be God like He is, if He did not have us living this religion which has us loving and caring for orphans and widows and staying unspotted by this evil world. This is religion that He has us doing. It is not possible without Him. So, it depends on Him; He does not depend on it, I would say.

We depend on Him so we can live and love like this.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Well, God is an objective reality. We can know this because Jesus Christ walked and talked among us, and He is God in flesh.

If we talk about religion in a generic sense, which extends to all kinds of different religions, world views, philosophies and movements, then no - religion is not needed, for they all make different and exclusive claims - They're competing ideas. But if we mean true religion, which is the worship of the one true God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; love for God and love for neighbour, then yes, religion is needed in that it justifies us (saves us through faith in Jesus Christ) and sanctifies us (the Holy Spirit makes us Christ-like).

 

[thecolorsblend]

what's the point of religion and does God need it to exist?

God is what we need to understand. Religion is how we go about doing it.

do we need it in order to believe in God?

Being as He instituted a religion, I'd say yes, if one's intention is to know, understand and obey God.

 

[JIMINZ]

what's the point of religion and does God need it to exist? do we need it in order to believe in God?

Religion in the sense you are using the word then NO!

A person does not have Religion before they become Believers in Christ, they may be a Junkie, Drunk, or Prostitute in a room by themselves and come to Salvation, Religion had no part in the process.

God existed very well before any Religion ever, and when this world burns itself up, there will be no Religion left, but God will still be God forever.

 

[com7fy8]

well the argument is that that religion (where we get our moral standard from etc.) isn't valid because it's man made

Well, I understand there are morals which are from God. But there can be manmade ways of doing and enforcing those moral rules.

For just one example > people can enforce good morals but without being ready to forgive. But Jesus is always ready to forgive us.

But there also can be people who even strongly feel God wants us to forgive; so this can be considered a moral principle. However, they might, really, be forgiving in order to merely get someone out of their conscience and memory. So, their way of forgiving might be human . . . manmade.

But Jesus desires forgiveness - - - with us ready to share tenderly as family with someone we forgive > of course, note how I say "ready to" do this. It can depend on what the forgiven person is ready to do, or not. I think we do need to prayerfully test if and how any forgiven person is ready to be trusted and ready for family sharing and caring; be ready, in case, and have hope in prayer for any person.

This would not be how manmade forgiving is done, at least often enough.

So, I would say there can be manmade religion's way of forgiving, but God's way is better.

But we can see so many people doing their forgiving in a not really loving way; and this can help teach people the wrong way to forgive. And so, ones can get the impression that forgiving is a manmade thing.

And so it can be with religion > people can see it done in a manmade way; so they suppose this is evidence that all religion is manmade. But ones who understand evidence know we can't evaluate everyone and everything only by what certain people have been doing.

You even can see how Bible claiming people . . . certain ones, not all . . . can always automatically shoot down "religion" as not being of God and they say it is manmade. They never mention the "religion" which James talks about in James 1:27. But just because certain people can be in our faces, like this, shooting down any and all religion as being manmade, this does not mean there is not God and His way of "religion" (James 1:27).

Even so, we can learn from what people mean when they say religion is of man. It is good to make sure about what each person means, versus assuming someone must be exactly the same as anyone else

 

[Jeshu]

Religion is man's idea. God is not religious. Neither do we need to be.

Having agreed with this statement i would like to go on to say what true Scriptural religion is;

James 1:27 "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

 

[com7fy8]

religion is needed in that it justifies us (saves us through faith in Jesus Christ) and sanctifies us (the Holy Spirit makes us Christ-like).

And, yes, as you are saying, it has us loving like Christ.

 

[JIMINZ]

Having agreed with this statement i would like to go on to say what true Scriptural religion is;

James 1:27 "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

The word Religion in that verse says.

RELIGION:
G2356
θρησκεία
thrēskeia
thrace-ki'-ah
From a derivative of G2357; ceremonial observance: - religion, worshipping.

G2357
θρῆσκος
thrēskos
thrace'-kos
Ceremonious in worship (as demonstrative), that is, pious: - religious.

But from the verse itself, it sounds like Religion is the doing of our Faith in Works.

Eph. 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[com7fy8]

But from the verse itself, it sounds like Religing is the doing of our Faith in Works.

Well, yes there are works of faith. But keeping ourselves "unspotted from the world", I would say, is deeper than our outward works.

I think of how the world would effect us to be unforgiving, nastily angry, arguing, complaining, frustrated, worried, afraid, confused, disenchanted, desperate for pleasure and excitement instead of satisfied in sharing with God and one another. So, keeping ourselves from this world's deep and spiritual wrong stuff would not be only a matter of doing good works of faith, I would say.

What do you think?

 

[Jeshu]

The word Religion in that verses says.

RELIGION:
G2356
θρησκεία
thrēskeia
thrace-ki'-ah
From a derivative of G2357; ceremonial observance: - religion, worshipping.

G2357
θρῆσκος
thrēskos
thrace'-kos
Probably from the base of G2360; ceremonious in worship (as demonstrative), that is, pious: - religious.

But from the verse itself, it sounds like Religing is the doing of our Faith in Works.

Eph. 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

i think the kernel of true religion loves deeply and truthfully. Faithfully demonstrating to all those around that the love of God is as such. Both faith and love are active forces in a believer's life.

 

[JIMINZ]

Well, yes there are works of faith. But keeping ourselves "unspotted from the world", I would say, is deeper than our outward works.

I think of how the world would effect us to be unforgiving, nastily angry, arguing, complaining, frustrated, worried, afraid, confused, disenchanted, desperate for pleasure and excitement instead of satisfied in sharing with God and one another. So, keeping ourselves from this world's deep and spiritual wrong stuff would not be only a matter of doing good works of faith, I would say.

What do you think?

My thoughts on the matter would be, as with the first Church, it was in the going from house to house, the sharing of things needed, this came about because of the persecution they were living under both from the Jews, and the Romans.

Today, most churches only come together to be Preached at, and then go home, there are those Churches which do have a time of Fellowship after the formal Service and that is where the RELIGION really should talk place.

Where the people learn of the trials and tribulation concerning the Brethren.

John 15:17
These things I command you, that ye love one another.

 

[JIMINZ]

Personally, I do not view Religion as an Outreach to the world, but rather the keeping and nurturing of the Body of Believers in Love.

The Widows and the Orphans we have read about in the verses are Christian Widows and Orphans First, not those of the Community.

We should look at ourselves as Christians in a Hostile world, the Same as God Chose the Jewish People out of all the Peoples of the Earth, then He Prospered and Protected them, we are Commanded to do the same, we are supposed to Prefer One Another.

Churches are always looking "OUT" their looking for ways to have the people of the Community helped more than making sure the Believers are taken care of first.

If all of the Churches in a given Community came together, they could then help all of the Infirm, Old, Widows, Orphans within the Christian Community, our Brothers.

It seems like then that would be a Wittiness to the Outside Community that we are taking good care of our own, and they then would want to become part of what we have and the Body would then grow, that Is the Kingdom in action, and it is the Kingdom that is the draw and always has been.

Mat. 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

If all you ever do is Outreach, you have never sought the Kingdom of God.

 

[disciple Clint]

what's the point of religion and does God need it to exist? do we need it in order to believe in God?

God needs absolutely nothing, He is God. We however need God. Man's transcendental desire for perfect truth, beauty, love, justice and being as well as natural law draw us to establish a relationship with God.

 

[com7fy8]

Today, most churches only come together to be Preached at, and then go home, there are those Churches which do have a time of Fellowship after the formal Service and that is where the RELIGION really should talk place.

I know people who do church things, then each day are sharing with various people who need help and companionship. They might find people who need them, both at church and in their community.

One person saw a lady with a baby walking while the winter was maybe single digit Fahrenheit, and she picked up the person and took her to a public service place in the next-door city. This is typical of what the lady does. But church, for her, is for worship and social sharing and Bible studies . . . but finding out who to pray for and how the church needs money.

I have known different people like this.

One possible multi-millionaire couple has had drug rehab ministry people meet at their place, Bible camp, and the wife once got to an overdosed woman's apartment just in time to get her help. They are kind to anyone and everyone, I would say . . . not at all conceited.

And there are others.

These are my examples whom I know personally.

God's word guarantees that His word will do what He means by His word, I understood from Isaiah 55:11. So, I was sure God's word has produced real example church leaders who are and who love the way God's word commands > 1 Timothy 3:1-10.

But I needed to be honest with God and obedient so I could be able to tell who these people are, and then I found out how I needed much correction so I could do well with them.

And if I did not know anyone like God's word produces, I was my real problem, then, I understood. And as I think now of how I have failed to get real with these people, I am still shaking my head. But it is not the fake church people, then, who are my real problem > I am.

 

[paul1149]

what's the point of religion and does God need it to exist? do we need it in order to believe in God?

True religion is a matter of the heart. James tells us true religion is a matter of keeping the heart unspotted by the world, and visiting widows and orphans in their distress. There are two components to it - the inward consecration and the outward obedience. This echoes the simplicity of what Paul wrote in Romans:

if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. -Rom 10:9​

Jesus gets to the heart of the matter in John 4. The woman at the well asks Him where the true place of worship is, her own country's holy mountain or in Jerusalem. Jesus replies:

But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” -John 4:23-24​

It's not either the holy mountain or Jerusalem, it's neither. Jesus blows away tradition and the necessity of a formal mode of worship. Spirit and truth is the heart of the matter. It's not denomination that saves; it's not rules and regulations. It's a heart and life based on the truth of Christ's accomplished work on our behalf that is pleasing to God and saves us.


Does God need religion to exist? This is a question of an unbelieving heart. God exists, period. His self-given name is I AM. He is the self-existent One, the Giver and Sustainer of all things.

 

[com7fy8]

The one who uses false religion is Satan. People have God and Satan mixed up. So, it is wise to use God's name to talk about what is true about Him.

So, does Satan need his false religions?? I understand he could be using them to get him attention and to try to make himself look good. Likewise, narcissists use what people like, in order to make the narcissist look good. They piggy-back on what people trust and like, so they can get people to adore and trust them. This is why evil people use the Christian label and the Bible . . . so people will trust them and give them what they want.

Satanic people will also use flattery.

But you might be able to see how people can be fooled only if they are foolish enough to buy the flattery and the religious show.

So >

what's the point of religion and does God need it to exist? do we need it in order to believe in God?

It is true how God does not need what really is Satan's religious stuff.

What we might ask is, does Satan actually need his religious stuff? I would say it does nothing for him . . . like how being a fake Christian does nothing really good for a narcissist.